I am posting somewhat anonymously, as I really need help with this situation. This has so crossed the line into creepy territory that I am at a loss as to how to deal with it.
Here is the problem: We have a vendor who is becoming more and more pushy about trying to join in the act, by constantly (and I do mean constantly) trying to get us to go along with his plan to capture one or more court members, and basically parade them around, before we "escape". This is not a 5 minute bit that he wants to do, but rather a full 30 minute thing, with no script, no plan, and no ending.
He presents the same plan every single year, or rather, every single event that he vends at where we are performing. We always say no firmly.
He wants to capture the princess who, by the way, is 15 years old, and gorgeous. Far, far, far too young for this to be anything other than completely creepy. He has tried to do this with this same actress, no matter what role she is playing, be it pirate or fairy (when she was 12 and 13), or lady in waiting (14). In fact, this is why we never let any of the younger ladies out of our sight, and stay right by them at all times.
He has tried to stop me from leaving his shop, saying I would have to be ransomed first. I can't even remember what I said to him when I realized he was not getting the hint that this was not welcome, that I did not want to play along, and in fact had somewhere else to be. I will never, ever go into his shop again, or buy anything from him again because of this.
Anyway, my question is, how in the world do we deal with this? We have to work with this person, as I doubt the management will do anything about it. I need some quips and techniques to get us out of this situation if he tries to do this again (and he will, because he is one of those people who will not take a direct no for an answer). Besides always walking with one of the adult gentlemen of the court, which is not always possible, what do we do to fend off this type of situation?
Help?
The first thing I would do is tell management. They may be more understanding than you think. It sounds like the behavior is borderline sexual harassment if not already and I would make that very clear. This poses a threat, esp to the child (and yes, 15 is still very much a child). Does the girl's mother know about this? The entire court? The entire faire? Let the word get around.
IF the management doesn't listen then it may be prudent to tell the guy that he is in the realm of sexual harassment and to back off. He has left the bawdy friendly playing level and entered criminal. This is where you have EVERY right to protect yourself (and others). Be courteous but firm and direct the first time (I don't know the extent of your encounters). He could really just be that clueless and modern day criminal consequences may get it in his head. After that the gloves come off! Get a clue or move on!
Don't be afraid to stand up, that is the biggest advice I can give. Make a stink and protect you and others. If your group is aware of the problems and so are others then you already have the support. I had a sexual harassment event in college that I really wish I had handled differently.
Good luck.
Best thing to do if you have no confidence in the management of the festival/Faire is to find what we call the men in blue.
Most faires have police officers working that would be more than willing to have a talk with the shopkeeper. Make sure to explain all of your concerns and what you have experienced. Officers know a lech when they see one. They just can't do anything unless there is a complaint. If nothing else, they will watch the shopkeeper. That alone may help deter his ways. Too many people, both men and women, think that being at a renaissance festival means that they have license to behave very badly.
We have had our share of lecherous people. Many of the people at CRF have come up with a code a few years back to let each other know when there was a problem. Our worst problem was a playtron and managment did not want to alienate anyone who paid money. We would rush to the person in trouble and distract the problem person long enough for the victim to escape. Maybe you could do that with those you know and trust at your faire.
If I was there I would help you my dear. I have no qualms about dealing with that type of behavior.
Good luck and best wishes!
Quote from: Dinobabe on July 06, 2010, 01:43:49 PM
The first thing I would do is tell management. They may be more understanding than you think. It sounds like the behavior is borderline sexual harassment if not already and I would make that very clear. This poses a threat, esp to the child (and yes, 15 is still very much a child). Does the girl's mother know about this? The entire court? The entire faire? Let the word get around.
That was my first thought. Let the vendor coordinator know and odds are they'll drop him like a hot potato. If they think letting a single vendor go would be "bad for business", you can let them know how much worse for business a lawsuit (or criminial prosecution) would be.
Make sure to go with the buddy system. A trusted peasant, squire, Lord or even the clergy is better than being left alone with him there.
It may take a while to get rid of him, so make sure that no one is left alone.
I have to second and third what others have said. Management can't do anything about it if they don't know - at least give them a chance to help you. And if it needs to go further, at least it's on record that someone was told. Does the event you are referring to have any sort of security personnel? We've had some creepy patrons and vendors and cast over the years, but we also have state constables that work our event. We also have a "hotword" - Constable. That is the one word that is absolutely off-limits except in situations that need attention. If anyone at any time yells the word "constable", that is a sign to event staff (cast, vendors, staff, security) to drop everything and come help. Maybe a system like that would work for you. I would make sure whatever security and management you have is aware of it, and make sure other cast is aware that that bit is off-limits so they can help with the situation.
And, make sure that the 15-year-old knows that the situation is bad too. Make sure she knows that she can (and should) walk away from the bit, even if it means breaking character and saying "get away from me".
Outside of telling management be sure to tell her mother and other court members that way if he does decide to go through with his plan those around her will be aware whats happening from the start and possibly be able to stop it or at lease make sure she avoids him. The fact it is always the same girl is beyond creepy.
Quote from: Becky10 on July 06, 2010, 03:35:13 PM
The fact it is always the same girl is beyond creepy.
EXACTLY!!!!
Item one: If he keeps trying to play this ransom game even after being told no repeatedly, he has a problem and will not stop.
Item two: I'm not sure which state you are in, but some states have severe penalties including prison time for not reporting harassment or molestation of chidren. I'm sure that the faire management would care very much about his behavior if the alternative was spending time in the big house and possibly losing the faire.
Item three: If he tried this with you, he probably already has done something similar with mundane visitors to the faire. Going after a publicly visible character is an escalation typical of a serial molester.
Run, don't walk, to the nearest management representative.
Caution, caution, caution! There are two sides to this.
First yes, I have to say it sounds extremely perverse. BUT, you have to look at this man's rights as well, whether he's a dirt bag or not.
Report your concerns to faire managament and the police. Leave it to the police to follow up on. They will most likely want a statement from the 15 yr old and that should automatically involve her parents.
In the meantime, keep away from him. I don't think there is a law that says you have to be nice to the guy so you have every right to make it clear you want nothing to do with him.
It is up to the girls parents on how to proceed where their daughter is concerned.
A good tip: Whenever you have to deal with him in these situations, Drop Character. Drop the accent, drop the pretense, and just lay it straight out to him that what he is doing is not wanted. If you can't trust management to deal with him, get some one else in an authority position to do it. There are a lot fo people out there who just don't get it, and think they're just 'playing along' or trying to add to the show.
If you haven't already, speak to the vendor as a group. It's important to present a unified front, but not appear to be attacking him; maybe a strongly worded but polite letter signed by everyone? Make sure he understands that his actions and suggestions are inappropriate, that he making the experience unpleasant and creating an atmosphere of fear. If he persists, speak to management and security.
Thanks for all of the good suggestions! I am going to talk with our court director and share these suggestions. I am in agreement that we need to talk with management again and let them know the situation. I am hoping that she can make the management aware that this is a huge problem for us, and that it is getting worse.
The girl's mother is aware of the issue, but I am not sure that she has reported it. She wasn't with us for this trip.
We did have one of our largest gentlemen of the court speak with the vendor, and he emphasized that due to her age, it would be highly inappropriate for him to continue. It really didn't seem to help much, unfortunately.
(I will definitely not hesitate now to drop character if needed. I was so shocked last year that all I could think about was not making a scene in front of the patrons.)
OP, you might go to management with the court director. If they won't do anything, tell them you will go to the police (then do, obviously). I really hope this gets solved to your satisfaction; harassment like this isn't fun.
Let us know if it works!
Why not go along with his "act" and then turn it on him--and have the ladies parade him about--since it is not planned nor scripted--what harm would there be with that? ;D
Turnabout is fair play or something to that effect.
j/k -- it does not sound like the OP knows just how far the vendor would go.
In all seriousness--even though his intentions may not be as dark as it seems like--at the moment. I think predators or any other serious offenders started out with intentions not as dark as well. And the longer this behaviour is tolerated--the farther he is allowed to press with no repercussions -- the farther he may push.
I agree with the other posters that if the faire authorities will not intervene--then local police will need to be notified.
If this was some store manager at a mundane store suggesting to a group of high school girls that they participate in an "innocent" act to drum up business--I am pretty sure most of us would be on the phone with authorities. Just because this is at a "theme" faire does not change morals or our actions/decisions.
Was this ever resolved?
Quote from: Valiss on July 29, 2010, 01:05:12 PM
Was this ever resolved?
I was thinking the same thing this morning.
This would be my best advice too. He sounds creepy. Faires are for families not pedephiles.
Quote from: will paisley on July 06, 2010, 01:51:10 PM
Quote from: Dinobabe on July 06, 2010, 01:43:49 PM
The first thing I would do is tell management. They may be more understanding than you think. It sounds like the behavior is borderline sexual harassment if not already and I would make that very clear. This poses a threat, esp to the child (and yes, 15 is still very much a child). Does the girl's mother know about this? The entire court? The entire faire? Let the word get around.
That was my first thought. Let the vendor coordinator know and odds are they'll drop him like a hot potato. If they think letting a single vendor go would be "bad for business", you can let them know how much worse for business a lawsuit (or criminial prosecution) would be.
Quote from: Valiss on July 29, 2010, 01:05:12 PM
Was this ever resolved?
Since I can't remember the password to my alter-ego, I'm outing myself... Our faire started up this past weekend, and so far, he's left the princess alone. He wants to do "something" for the Queen's birthday, but not a word has been mentioned about capturing the princess, as far as I know. Two more weekends left, so we'll see if that changes. If it does, I'll be talking to management. The good news is that our management seems to be more responsive this year, as he finally put a lifetime ban on a pesky patron on Saturday (this is the one that was taking clandestine photos up women's skirts!).
Thank you for all of your suggestions. I was worried that I was just "seeing" things, and I'm grateful that others also think that this isn't right. You all are the best!
This story is extra creepy for me because the EXACT thing happened to my daughter at Scarby.
Do you know if this person was at Scarby as well?
Feel free to PM me any details on this guy.... it caused a big scene at Scarby this year and me and a few burly Scots were getting close to pounding this guy.
(my daughter is 15)
I would tell management anyway. There may be some minor complaints you don't know about. Your complaint could be the difference between it happening to someone else (or the same person) or not before he is banned. I don't take chances with psychos! ;)
Harlas had a good one, turn the whole act on him, and tell him it can't be for no 30MIN, but maybe 5 or 10, and he'd better have a damn good script. If his intentions are to have a real act, then he will write up a script, and make his intentions fully known. If not, he's just a weirdo, and needs to be banned from faire, and go to a shrink. But, before even allowing him the chance to get close to the girls, tell management, and let them set up some security, and watch what he does. Let us know what happens.
Quote from: Poldugarian Warrior on September 13, 2010, 04:13:46 AM
Harlas had a good one, turn the whole act on him, and tell him it can't be for no 30MIN, but maybe 5 or 10, and he'd better have a damn good script. If his intentions are to have a real act, then he will write up a script, and make his intentions fully known. If not, he's just a weirdo, and needs to be banned from faire, and go to a shrink. But, before even allowing him the chance to get close to the girls, tell management, and let them set up some security, and watch what he does. Let us know what happens.
We've told him that every year, but he always:
1. never contacts our director ahead of time,
and
2. never, ever has a script, or even anything at all with a beginning, ending, or even a reason.
We completely avoided this merchant this year. The princess and I didn't step foot in his shop, and if we had to walk past it, we focused on the shops across from his. Because of this, we had no problems with him, and just gave him no opening at all to banter or even talk with us.
Now, 6 months until the next festival...
Well, while I'm glad the situation didn't present itself again this season, I'm sorry you had to work so hard to keep things safe.
Yep, total weirdo, it's one thing if he can do an ad lib act, but come up with somethin even through talks without a script. But, you did the right thing by ignoring him. Hope the situation never worsens, and just goes away totally.
Wow, that was reeeeeally creepy. I'm surprised the faire itself hasn't had the creep arrested or ousted.
Not sure how I missed this over the summer..
Anyhow, as a former member of managment for my home faire, I can firmly say that this is a type of issue that I would deffinately want to hear about. Faire is a great time to loosen boundaries and have fun, but there is only so far that some boundaries can be pushed. It sounds like this guy is taking it way too far.
I'm not going to jump the bandwagon that he must be a child molester or on his way to becoming one, but it is clear that he is making pepole very uncomfortable. I've seen this ploy a few times, and normally it is a very misguided attempt to play with someone. It is still inapropriate though.
This goes for anyone that has an issue like this. First talk to the person to let them know it is not apropriate. (if under age, or otherwise not wanting to confront him, feel free to have the most intimidating person you know there to talk for you.
Also let someone on management know what is going on. They will likely stop by to have a "chat" with the person. if they continue after this, let management know again. and they will step up their actions.
The first goal at faire is for people to have fun. To do that, they need to feel they are in a safe environment. That is why whenever I hear about something like this, it became first priority. If you don't feel safe around this person and feel you have to change your behavior to avoid him, then patrons could pick up on that. Happy patrons come back, unhappy patrons don't. And there is always the risk of losing performers, which we hate to lose more then we hate losing a few patrons.
"And there is always the risk of losing performers, which we hate to lose more then we hate losing a few patrons."
From your mouth to Gods ears!
Some of the Faire management we've dealt with think that performers are like disposable ketchup packets. Just open a new packet. Not all by any means , but some.
Quote from: Capt Robertsgrave Thighbiter on January 05, 2011, 02:51:03 PM
"And there is always the risk of losing performers, which we hate to lose more then we hate losing a few patrons."
From your mouth to Gods ears!
Some of the Faire management we've dealt with think that performers are like disposable ketchup packets. Just open a new packet. Not all by any means , but some.
I can't speak for everyone, so I'd by lying if I said that wasn't true, but if a performer brings patrons through the gate, we typically want to keep them.
May I also add that if you need to have a "talk" with him make sure that you have witnesses, perferably someone with authority. Document everything. Keep a journal if possible but don't let him get by with accusing your performers of trying to make him look bad.
Right on. Robert Phoenix. Witnesses and logs/journals are all admissible in court.