At the moment I am doing research, research, research.....as much as I can. I do intend on having a koi pond but want to do it RIGHT the first time.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
I have heard the walls should be straight because of predators and to build up the pond about 18 inches (to provide a sitting area for feeding koi).
I have also heard the minimum depth should be 4 foot but 6 to 8 foot is better.
I am going to be very careful WHERE I have the pond and plan on taking the time to know what I am doing. Even if the project takes quite some time.
LOL, my youngest son (age 22) that has been staying here before going back to college in the fall, is on board with this! He already wants to start digging....and doesnt really understand my cautiousness. ::) ;D
I am also considering, finances to determine this, about building a sunroom around the pond.
Depth ideas will depend on several things; your location, if the koi will winter outdoors, how many koi you plan on keeping in the pond, and whether or not it will be aerated. Most casual ponds are no more than 30 inches deep, 8 feet is an extreme but is good if you plan on keeing larger fish, jumbos or plan on breeding.
The major predators to watch for are heron/crane/egret and raccoons in pretty much every area. But the former can be scared away by bamboo ichi-bani (deer scares, easy to build and cost about $5) and the latter can be kept hungry if the pond surface is big enough to allow the fish to scurry away. Still, losing fish is going to happen regardless of the size.
Koi are well known for being suicidal in new ponds. The can (and will) jump insanely high to get themselves out of a new pond. Keeping the new pond covered with a net will keep death counts down until the fish settle in.
Plants are optional, though some will be more of a nuisance than a welcome and you'll end up having to rake them out any dispose of them... the ones that come to mind first are duckweed and water cress. They go insane with growing wild and can quickly cover a pond. Water reed/Cattails are not bad and don't spread too fast, same with dwarf water lilies.
Filtration is going to be the biggest issue. I've had hands-on experience with sump filters up to 960 gallons in size... thats the filter size, not the size of the pond it's cleaning. The filter itself could handle 960 gallons of water at one time.
Aeration is also a big issue with koi and goldfish. Too many fish in too small of pond with no aeration will soon equal alot of dead fish. Aeration can come in many forms; as simple as an air stone, to an elaborate waterfall. Depends entirely on your budget.
Ponds can also be made with a variety of bottoms; pond/pool lining, cement, and mud bottoms. Personally, I prefer mud bottoms for the added mineral content. It helps bring out extremely bright hi (red) in your koi.
Pool/pond liners are usually the quick choice because it is easy to clean if needed, prevents water seepage and chemical contamination from the ground, and if the liner is blue it helps show off dark koi, and if its black it shows off your Platinums, Ochis and Tancho very well.
Cement is a bit pricey, but is good for laying underground piping for filtration. Though cement choices are not to be taken lightly as some can be very toxic to fish. They are also a bit of a pain sometimes as algae loves to make itself at home in rough cement and will be fun to scrub off by hand. lol
What most people are not aware of is the size the Koi can attain. Fish tend to adjust to their surroundings, so they will not achieve maximum size if their habitat will not support it, but Koi will reach approximately 3 feet without a lot of trouble, but can get larger, and if well cared for, they will outlive you.
If your pond is not enclosed where racoons (especially) can get to them, they should a minimum of 30" deep and the shortest dimension (length x width) should be about 3 feet. If the Koi have an overhang that they can hide under, you can reduce this some. Racoons tend to not completely immerse themselves.
When you first set up the pond, you should NOT stock it first with Koi. If you aren't an experienced fish-keeper, you should know that an environment needs to be established, complete with certain bacteria. The simplest way to achieve this is to start with one or two very small fish. Plain Goldfish or Comets are cheap, and if you're not too impulsive, you won't have to sacrifice them. But they will help create the ecosystem necessary to keep Koi.
Different climates will require different handling of some issues. Here in the south, algae was a major problem. I did two things: I would get lilies and water lettuce in the Spring and just keep them pruned back. Barley hay also is very effective if algae is a problem. If you can add a waterfall or some other type of aeration, you'll have better luck.
If your pond is under trees, you'll have a major headache come fall. However, you say you'll be doing it in a sun room.... that could eliminate a LOT of potential problems.
The more you research and plan, the better your experience will be. Keeping fish is a wonderful experience, if you're doing it right. Your fish will literally eat out of your hand! I've had a lot of both positive and negative experiences, so if you have questions, ASK!
Quote from: Merlin the Elder on June 15, 2011, 08:57:36 PM
Keeping fish is a wonderful experience, if you're doing it right. Your fish will literally eat out of your hand!
Wanted to add a quick little story of some of my past koi, not trying to hijack the thread but Merlin's mention of them eating from your hand instantly made me think of my favorite girl.
My favorite koi purchase was a 13 inch female Ochiba Shigure (a coloration of koi that means autumn leaves on water, so her name was Autumn) from a fish-truck. She was a lucky find, paid $5 for her at 13 inches and she was gorgeous. She would eat from my hand, allow herself to be petted on the head and picked up from the water by hand, she'd suck on my finger and suck on a baby bottle too. I would mix up a slurry of ground plankton and spirulina and she would suck it from the bottle. I assume she found this to be a true delicasy as she waited for it almost daily.
She also had a habit of sucking on my finger if I placed it into the water, which freaked the crap out of a friend of mine one day. I told her to watch the fish, and I waggled my finger in the water. Sure enough Autumn came right over, gaping mouth wide, and sucked my finger in right down to the knuckle. My friend (so
not an animal person in general) freaked out. Started screaming and backing up as if Autumn was going to leap out of the water and eat her face. I laughed about that for a while, but she didnt find it amusing at all, and Autumn was totally clueless at the odd humans around her.
Autumn reached a little over 22 inches before I sold her for nearly $350 - not bad for a $5 investment. She was my first koi and her temperment was not unusual for pet-raised koi. They can be likened to dogs in so many ways. I've got videos of my koi playing with a beach ball, sucking on the bottle, being picked up out of the water by hand, allowing themselves to be pet on the head, etc.
If you do decide to get some koi, and you take the time to hand-tame them, they will make amazing pets as well as gorgeous decorations.
Another thing, Mairte... You're in Minnesota? You MUST provide a way to vent in the winter when the pond freezes. You also won't be feeding them for probably 6-8 months out of the year...
Thanks Sam and Merlin! :)
Yes, one of the reasons I picked Koi is the local feed store has an indoor koi pond, gorgeous fish! I do know they get large so I am going to be careful to make the pond big enough and not overstock. I LOVE how they have the potential to get so tame!
With Minnesota I am sure there are many things I need to look at that people in warmer climates do not. I want the pond hopefully in a sun room and may have a way to run heat to it in the winter months. I havent looked at all the aspects of that yet either.
Fairly sure where I want it but going to have someone come out and show me where all the utility lines are and such. I have a three season porch and have though about putting a door on one end of it to lead into the sunroom. Or even include it as part of the room.
I want to be very clear that once your pond is finished and filled, you do NOT want to start out putting Koi in there, unless it's perhaps just a single fingerling. A new pond—or aquarium—has to be seasoned a bit. There are bacteria that must get established in order to deal with the waste that the fish will be generating. Otherwise, they WILL die!
You don't say whether or not you have any aquarium experience, so that's why I'm trying to warn you away from the pitfalls. Koi are really great to have though. You should really enjoy it! I've considered building a Koi pond into the porch of the house that we hope to build...if this economy would steady some.
Yes, I have aquarium experience but NO outdoor pond experience. Yup, I know once you have the pond filled with water, you dont just start dumping koi in it. ;D I really appreciate the advice/warning though because I think a lot of people wouldnt be aware of it.
I AM excited to do this. LOL, might get the digging part done in the next couple of months while I still have help with the manual labor. :D
Don't forget that ponds (any size) tend to attract kids. The bigger and deeper the pond =drowning risk.
Deeper outdoor ponds may need to be protected with a 6' fence, just like a pool, to keep little trespassers out and safe, and to keep your Koi from being messed with too.
Thanks Rowen!
I DO plan on at very least having a fence but more likely a sunroom or a greenhouse around it. Locks of course. :)
I no longer have a Koi pond (the local Blue Herons and Egrets made that impossible to continue), but when I did, I was having the house sided one summer. I went to feed the fish and noticed little shiny things in the water. On closer inspection, I found that the workmen had been shooting at my fish with their nail guns. I was a very unhappy camper at that point, even though none of my fish were harmed.
:o :o Shooting at your fish with nail guns????? Did you say anything to them? Sometimes I wonder where other peoples minds are at....and then their behavior makes me NOT want to know. >:(
I have been going onto the Koiphen forum and reading various posts. Beginning to get a clearer idea of what I do and dont want for a koi pond.
I dont need a LOT of koi but want the pond to be perfect for the few I will have....
Yeah... I said something. Not sure I got through the meth haze...
Wow. IDIOTS.
How long did you have a koi pond? Also WHEN I am ready to order koi, where is the best place? Being kind of in the middle of nowhere I am hoping to find a reliable online source.
I have heard herons and egrets are good at making a snack bar out of a koi pond. Another reason I think I just want to have it in an enclosure, probably glassed but able to have screens when its too warm. Though I might go for the whole heating/cooling thing...
Another predator I have heard that people have trouble with is raccoons.
Raccoons can be dealt with using proper pond design, but the birds are a lot more difficult to deal with. There are devices that turn on with proximity switches to chase off predators. I never lost a fish to raccoons, and there are lots of them in my neighborhood. The cats used to like to sit and watch the fish swim back and forth.
I had my pond for 4-5 years I guess. If it were enclosed, I'd still have one.
Yeah, I know the cost of enclosing the pond will be more but I think it will be worth it in the long run.
I have been looking at everyone elses ponds on the different forums and have a bad case of envy,lol.
Talked with my dad this evening about the project. LOL, his biggest worry about it being 6 to 8 feet deep is that I might fall in. ::) Parents dont change....I told him I would go no shallower than four or five feet. I suppose if its enclosed and climate controlled maybe it wouldnt have to be as deep? Though that will remain to be seen.
In a climate controlled setting, it certainly would not have to be that deep. The biggest concern would be if you lost power, is how long you could keep the temperature around the pound from dropping sub-zero. In your climate, how long would it take for the pond to completely freeze? Only experienced fish keepers in your area could answer those questions. I'm sure it can be done, but you need some locals to give you the correct information.
Your main concern is not the temperature of the water, it's the thickness of the ice! Even during winter periods of minimal respiration, there are still gases that would build up if there were no venting. Even in Arkansas—way south of where you are—the pond would freeze over.
Koi don't need more than 30" depth. That's about what mine was. An interesting thing about fish is that they have a tendency to adjust to their environment. If it starts getting crowded, they stop procreating. They'll even stop growing if they need to.
Thanks Merlin. :)
Right now I am thinking about having a smaller goldfish pond for the next couple of years. I HOPE not to make any mistakes but would rather make newbie mistakes on less expensive fish....
I am STILL researching and planning for a koi pond but that will be at least two years out.
Goldfish....I plan on putting a liner in and submerging an old metal tub. Thinking about what kind of filters, pumps, pred protection (nets?) I would need. I think in a tub, four or five goldfish? I dont want to overstock.
As said, I figure this will be part of my learning experience. :)
Oh and I dont plan on overwintering them outside. They will be moved to a large aquarium in the colder months since the depth of the tub really wouldnt allow for overwintering unless I put some sort of de-icing equipment in it....even then, I guess I would consider it too shallow.
I would rather be safe than sorry.
Looking at goldfish...I really like the orandas.
I'm thinking the enclosure idea will prevent a whole lot of problems. Regarding fishing birds: My uncle in Blackpool, UK. finally stretched a fine net over his pond to keep the birds out. He says in addition to the herons and egrets, he has cormorants of all things. No fish is safe from diving birds.
Preventing access to the pond from above as well as the sides will help keep the bugs down too. In case you are wanting to allow the Koi to breed....Did you know that dragonfly larva (nymphs) are carnivorous? They prey on the newly hatched fry of fish as well as tadpoles.
Koi pond, defnitely enclosed. Small goldfish pond...I thought not to but in rethinking it, I am going to put a greenhouse over it.
I will probably allow both goldfish and koi to breed, if they will.
I had a nice surprise today. Someone offered me their 100 gallon pond (not big but it would be okay for a couple of goldfish and some plants!) for free but I have to clean the water and debris out of it. It will probably be a gross job but I am going to do it. ;D