I'd like to open a discussion here—not a pissing match—of things you feel would be beneficial to faires in general. Rather than call out your own (or other) faires and complain about them, what I think would be more constructive would be listing things that in your travels you might have had one place but not another. If you've experienced the positive at a particular faire, you may mention them as an example, but no faire bashing allowed!
Having visited four different faires this year (so far), I've got a pretty good idea of some of the things
I liked that may have varied from one to another:
- Shade...lots of shade! This was/is a murderous year for heat! There were acts I had to forgo because there was no shade. Sherwood has a considerable amount of shade, as does Oklahoma RF (Muskogee). Scarby has added some more shade netting which has helped a bunch.
- Act rotation: I realize we all hate to see our favourite acts not be at their regular spots, if they aren't performing at least some new material each season, they are going to get stale. Yes, there are some anchor acts, and that is perfectly acceptable if they are good enough, i.e., Don Juan & Miguel...I think they've done all but one year at Scarby? Always entertaining! Acts DO need to rotate. It's good for the acts as well as for the faires.
- Good paths: Mulch definitely makes it easier on the legs and feet. Hardpack will wear out the patrons a lot faster.
Nice places to eat: I gotta say that finding a relatively fancy Italian restaurant on the grounds of Sherwood was a total mind-blower. It is a treat to have a sit-down restaurant at faire. Scarby's Rose & Crown is nice too... - Ticket prices: From what I experienced this year, prices varied from hell-to-breakfast, and regardless of what the prices were, folks were not happy. I really don't understand that. I know that not everyone has unlimited resources, in fact, I know NO one with this "problem," especially this year. But do realize, this is entertainment...it is recreation, and as such, it is NOT absolutely required that you participate, albeit it is better for you if you do. You need this, and so do I. But also keep in mind, that these are businesses, as much as we hate to hear that. For them to provide you with the acts you want to see, the food you want to eat, the facilities you want to use, they need your money. Whether or not they do a good job of utilizing their income, that is another issue.
- We're not campers, but faires with camping facilities have something extra going for them.
Let's face it: owners are going to want to minimize costs and maximize profits. Their
main concern is the "bottom line." (At this point I will exclude one faire that I have attended, and you know who you are).
We rennies do not "make" the faires, but I would like to think that we
help in that respect, and I know that we, for the most part, are positive advertisements for the faires. Consequently, faire management might want to take a serious look at what we consider minimum specs for a good faire. Your CONSTRUCTIVE comments, please! If you have negative comments, please do NOT name the faire.
Merlin,
I agree with you about the shade. My favorite faires are set in trees, with lots of shade. I love our Valhalla Faire, set in a campground in South Lake Tahoe. Natural shade is best, but man-made shade also helps. I also agree with you about the entertainment rotating. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen much around here. The next thing that I really want at a faire is seating areas outside of the stage areas! This can be as simple as bales of straw scattered in shady places. My number one favorite thing to do at faires is people-watch, and it is much more pleasant to sip a cool drink and sit while observing the crowd. (I like to see families, how they interact, and how they do or don't look alike) Next, I like to see new and different types of vendors. That will usually coax some disposable income out of me, thus helping the faire. (that's my story, anyway) That's about it!
More clean privies that are in the shade, also would love to go to a Faire that has flushables...
I love when there are huge trees providing shade. The first thing that really charmed me at my first faire, which was TRF, was the huge trees surrounded by a little stone bench, with blooming flowers on them. It is so beautiful! You can really tell there was a lot of thought put into which trees to not cut down or where to plant trees for the best shade.
I also love little sections of faire, such as at Muskogee, there little fairy children's section. So cute! The wooden bridges in the trees really made it special for me. And again, there was a ton of shade because of the trees! The gardens at TRF are also lovely. I don't know, it sound silly to say "I want the faire to be pretty" but thats all I can really think to say. Going along with the gardens at TRF and the childrens realm at OK, I love the bridges at scarby and KC renfest. They're just so...pretty!
Oh, one thing I have always wanted and never understood why none of the faires I go to have are mirrors! I won't name faires, like you said, but in the women's restroom, they had itty bitty mirrors that you could barely see your face in. In our garb, especially after maneuvering out of a tiny stall, we all know how hard it can be to get re-situated, and at least 1 full length mirror per bathroom would be good! I can't tell you how many times I've been saved by a kind soul who told me my skirt was tucked into my shorts underneath ;D
One thing I am upset with myself more than the faire is hidden lanes. I usually forget to look for this one lane at a faire I go to regularly that is literally hidden, depending on the way you're coming up on it. I have to make sure I go find it so I won't miss it, as unlike other faires where you can just wonder about and usually see everything. I don't want the lanes to be a tic-tac-toe pattern, but I'd like them to all be clear and open.
Have you ever heard of the game Rollercoaster Tycoon? You get to design your own theme park, and I feel like I'm kind of doing that!
Great topic!
Recommend a few things:
Faires sell multi-day tickets (weekend passes).
Faires establish a "Friends of the Faire" upgrade, similar to the one they do in St Louis.
Urinal troughs for the men.
Quote from: Butch on August 07, 2011, 09:36:52 PM
Faires establish a "Friends of the Faire" upgrade, similar to the one they do in St Louis.
Here here!
Quote from: Delireus on August 07, 2011, 10:57:17 PM
Quote from: Butch on August 07, 2011, 09:36:52 PM
Faires establish a "Friends of the Faire" upgrade, similar to the one they do in St Louis.
Here here!
For those of us not familiar with St Louis's faire, explain please?
As much help/expertise in getting people out of the parking lot as getting in. Never understood the 45 people parking cars and barely two directing traffic leaving.
You have a good point there, Mehan. I think everyone is about pooped out by day's end, but that would be exTREMELY helpful.
Trish, I'll let Butch explain the Friends of Faire as St Louis does it, but at Scarborough, it's a season's pass with extras: preferential parking, 10% discount at the faire-owned souvenir stands, a nice commemorative pin, access to FoF pavilions that serve water or Gatorade (no charge), an invite to a pre-faire rehearsal day which includes a meal, 2 comp tickets good for the first couple of weekends, and 2 comp tickets to Screams, which is Scarby made over as a Halloween theme park in October. Bought early, the FoF passes are only $115 (or have been last couple of years) which I consider a good deal. Each year, Scarborough unveils a new or refurbed facility that has an FoF dedication plaque. Last years complete reconstruction of the Crown Stage was a real eye-popper.
Much grattitude good Merlin as I am now in the midst of preparing the grounds for SoM. One thing I would like to see is more areas for the children as happy kids allow for parents to enjoy thier time and loosen thier walletts and purses. Shade is very important as getting overheated is a major concern of mine. More handcrafted items would be nice as I do not care to buy something at fair that can be purchased elsewhere at half the price. Seating is also nice as with two bad knees and hips it is nice to rest this wore out body and still enjoy the fair.While I admit I greatly enjoy stage acts I always enjoy the lane performers so much more it is the whole up close and personal aspect. i too enjoy the concept of a well balanced meal without leaving the grounds to do so dont get me wrong Funnel Cakes rock. And Thank you all i have allready benifitted from this as a full length mirror never entered my mind.
I wish my home faire had an official FoF. There's a pretty active FoF community, but it's not officially associated with the faire. Thus, no perks (except being one of the cool kids ;))
I would love to see a FoF organization here in Omaha. It will happen one day!
As far as faire itself (and it looks to be a recurring theme): Every faire I have been to could use much more random clean seating and a lot more shade outside of the stages and food courts. If not trees, perhaps pretty shade pavillions? Extra seating for the purpose of resting and people watching would give the Playtrons in fancy garb in particular, a safe place to get off their feet, display their outfits, and add ambiance to the grounds while staying clear of the folks who are eating, or trying to watch a show when seating is scarce.
David an I have attended shows where we just wanted a place to sit and rest having already seen the act a few times. Folks were left standing who would like to sit and watch and I felt bad, but my feet were killing me, and there was no place else to sit other than the ground.
I agree with the act rotation. I don't mind seeing the same individuals, but when it gets to the point where I can recite the lines along with them year after year (especially when I only make it 1 or 2 weekends a season)? I tend to get bored and will pass up acts. I will say I absolutely love what Sherwood did with the storyline. It's something different each year with several different shows within the day. Brilliant idea on their part :)
Also agreeing with the full length mirrors! Very useful if you don't already have a friend or two in the bathroom with you to let you know if you're "all down" with no skirts tucked in undergarments :P
-An Official fair themed camp grounds, nearby fairs. Reasonably priced, reserved ahead of time (be jammed and a nightmare if not). Pre-pitched tents of renaissance-ish style. You know, the big canvas kind with the many different colors, and the drape-style doors. Could be set as a package deal, camping for a weekend includes tickets? No alcohol (rowdy partying- no one would ever get a good nights rest) and weapons to remain peace-tied. Fixed-raised fire pits, set for evening use only... that way no one leaves a fire unattended. Just to keep it a family friendly environment.
- Drinking Water fountains(cleaner equivalent?). I know water is a precious and expensive resource anywhere you go, but it is also expensive to the patrons. $10-12 for a family to get bottled water that wont last them the whole stay. Especially on exceptionally hot days. Or at the least, don't prohibit people bringing their own water in. Not soda or Gatorade or anything else. Just water.
-Description on tickets or with tickets that explains just what patrons are paying for to get in. All of the shows they can watch... Maybe even throw in a voucher or two for a free costume rental once in a while? Or a raffle of some kind for ticket stubs at the middle-end of the day.
-Cobbled paths. Specifically on parts of the fairs ground that get the most traffic, and dare I say steps in certain area's of fairs with more steep/hilly terrain. Couldn't begin to count the number times I've seen children and adults a like take a spill on uneven terrain or slipping on grass/gravel.
Quote from: The Rabbi on August 08, 2011, 08:53:23 AM
...More handcrafted items would be nice as I do not care to buy something at fair that can be purchased elsewhere at half the price...
As a faire owner, you have that control. Some faires have juried vendors, [partially] meaning that their wares must meet certain criteria, and usually (as I understand it) that includes being hand-crafted. You can make that part of your vendor contract. You can specify 100% hand-crafted or less if you wish, but it's your party, you can do what you want to (paraphrasing Leslie Gore).
The random seating that has been mentioned is very important. Seating is relatively cheap. The shade, at some faires, might be a little more problematic and/or expensive.
The issue of water... All the faires sell water. As a bona fide tree-hugger, it think it's nuts to issue that many plastic containers! If you have your own vessel, why can't it be dispensed from a large (returnable) jug for free, or minimal charge? (I heard that there was one spot at OkRF that would
give you water
if you had your own cup) Knowing from personal experience that drinking tap water away from home can be...ahem...problematic, I cannot trust local water. Even at home, most of the water we drink is bottled, but we buy in 5-gallon returnables. Something to consider, faire owners. You can make your good money on your ales and meads, but I've bought water at faires that cost a lot more than beer at my local taverns! It should not be that expensive! If you want to know the truth, that is pretty much the ONLY thing at faire that I will complain about the cost of.
Oh and...
-Playtron Pass. (Same thing as a season pass I guess but) For those dedicated few (many), who attend fair and don their garb every single weekend to go and play with their friends and be apart of the fair, those people who pay the full price for tickets every time (some times) And never officially become members of cast. Yet by doing so add to the atmosphere and the fun that fair is. A pass for those people. 2/3rds the price of a season pass or something. Honestly believe that customer loyalty (dedication for a passion/hobby/lifestyle) should be rewarded. Even if it was just a one time thing, not a single one would be ungrateful.
The price of water at fairs will always be my one and only complaint about pricing as well. A dehydrated customer base is not healthy. From a recent fair I attended over the summer, was the patrons biggest complaint. Water. It is every year. Purchasing filtered water in bulk (big water jugs) would be far cheaper than hundreds of cases of bottled water. Finding a cost effective way to dispense it would be cheaper than (for the ones who do it) sending the recycled bottles to a center to be recycled. Though, not saying recycling is bad either. It's actually a tax break for businesses that do it. (financial incentive?)
What I want from any faire:
1. shade
2. shade (jeez I burn like stuck toast in 30 minutes or less)
3. clean working privies. Even if they are just connected to a septic tank it is not that hard to have seats that don't buck you off and doors that open and close properly (I'm looking at you Middlefaire).
4. I like to see my favorite acts and I mostly prefer musical acts with a little comedy thrown in. I am always open to news acts, even if I only see them once. I realize that people expect more variety than that, but magic shows and hypnotists don't do anything for me.
I really enjoyed the day at Scarby when the cast did a period style Masque. I laughed and laughed.
5. A decent variety of food that isn't dripping a whole cup of lard on you, e.g. crudite with dip maybe?
1. Shade!
2. Flushies. Specifically, flushies that contain at least one handicapped stall. Because farthingales really don't fit in small stalls.
3. Lane performers. The random performances that spring up at Sterling really set that faire apart from any other faire I've visited.
4. Drinking fountains, or places to fill up your water bottles or cups. I thought it was really delightful when Scarby was giving out free ice water to anyone who did the court dances.
5. Nature! I don't like to see a faire in a barren area. I love wooded faires, or ones with water in them. The Lady of the Lakes faire in FL has docks that go out onto the lake, where you can get a fresh breeze and beautiful pictures. It's lovely!
6. Vendors with reasonable prices. It's amazing how you can see similar items with wildly different prices at different faires.
7. Varying acts. I don't usually want to see the same act time after time from a group, unless it relies heavily on improv. This especially applies to the joust. I have started to avoid the joust, since not only is it the same joust from faire to faire, it's the same from one performance to the next in the same day.
8. Shaded seating in the lanes. I also enjoy people-watching.
9. A variety of vendors. Some that stand out to me are the fruit-seller at BARF this year, and the book-seller at Scarby (who carried the Dover coloring books I love, as well as other costuming books). Not things I would usually expect at faire, and I loved it!
10. Cheaper prices/weekend-type passes or buy-one-get-one. BARF (on almost every weekend, it seems) does a pay full price and get another day free ticket, or a donate cans get a day free, etc. It's really helpful, and definitely encourages me to come back.
11. Free parking. Paying for parking is ridiculous. Especially if the price of the faire is more than $10-15.
Glad to see that I am headed in the right direction here as most of what I see is allready in my plans. Sorry folks the flushies are in the plans but not the budget just yet. While I have no desire to charge for parking ever i wondered about asking for donations to make parking improvements and to help pay those who get you in and out of the parking areas. Also the camping area is a must in my books and if you want to come back time after time then by all means let me know what you would like to see but be prepared if it aint in my budget then be ready for me to ask how to make it happen. Great idea about the large water jugs need to get that one figured out, once again would you be offended by a donation can there. Folks I am loving this thread as it is proving to be very useful to me. Rennie first fair owner second.
Don't feel too pushed to fulfill the complete wishlist, Rabbi. There is a huge difference between a faire that's been running 30+ years and a startup operation. I don't think anyone expects flushies when you just getting underway.
I think it's fair to say that we hold faires that are several years old to much higher requirements on the permanent facilities. There are exceptions, like Sherwood, but I think that it is extremely rare that someone can go into it with enough money and guts to start up that grand, and it takes a lot of both.
I look forward to visiting SoM.
i would like to see more handicapped accessibility, for wheelchair's/scooters. Sterling does have small gravel pathways, but the wheels 'dig' into it and is so hard to move on.
there is one 'bricked' walkway, but that slope can be a back breaker.
i think going to some shows, there is a need for a 'brick pathway'. being in a grassy spot, is too much for some, to get to. i saw a few struggle with getting places. a few men, took the time to help push chairs up the slopes or to the shows.
maybe hire some 'strong, young men', to just do that?
Ahhh....Water! While we are on the topic of water (for drinking) I must give kudos to our local faire, Fair Oaks Tudor Fayre. This faire is always HOT, and the faire organizers go 'way out of their way to minimize heat related problems. They provide water for anyone who desires it, having volunteers combing the grounds for thirsty folks, and misters set up at various places. (ahhh.....) Wenches wander with woolen balls soaked in icey water, and they will squeeze the water wherever it will do the most good. (bodice, head, back of neck, maybe?) ;D
Shade and "Street Performers" The Va. Faire has both!
Ladies' privvies where the doors open OUT. And larger than normal stalls to assist with the noble's or other extra-volume garb. Seriously, some restroom designers should be confined to solitary confinement in what they design (inside and outside Faire!)
Also agree on the shade and places to sit throughout the venue.
I wouldn't limit it to just the ladies' privies. Some of us guys have a bit of extra clothing too. The stalls need to be kept clean and dry. I don't know why the military takes male soldiers, because men can't aim for $#&^! The contortions I have to go through to keep my garb dry in the restroom stalls is crazy!
Hi, I'm new here. I don't know how old this post string is. But a couple of things I'd love to see at the faire I've been to would be:
+ A Childrens area: I went to PRF for a few years before I moved out of PA and they said they had a childrens realm which consisted of a few rides, a couple of shops with kids toys and such. It was good. But it really didn't seem like it was any different than the rest of the shire. They didn't have a defined children show stage. So I think I'd like that there.
+ Shade, yeah Everyone else said it, but I go in Leather armor. Not as comfortable once it gets above 82 degrees. Couldn't be comfortable for the performers either.
+ websites having the Shire map would be good, I'm going to Sterling Ren Faire this weekend, I can't for the life of me find a map of the Shire. (infact if you read this and have one or know where one is online could you let me know?)
Thanks
Shire maps are essentials, in my opinion. I have a tendency to plan out my visit! Sherwood does an exceptional job of providing the map with clear numbering of the booths so that you can locate your favourite vendors. All of the faires I've been to have shire maps online. That feature does indeed appear to be missing on the Sterling website.
Quote from: EtraEd on August 11, 2011, 08:19:32 AM
+ A Childrens area: I went to PRF for a few years before I moved out of PA and they said they had a childrens realm which consisted of a few rides, a couple of shops with kids toys and such. It was good. But it really didn't seem like it was any different than the rest of the shire. They didn't have a defined children show stage. So I think I'd like that there.
PRF has expanded their Childrens Realm. It is a completely separate area and now has a stage. Kinda like kiddie land at an amusement park.
Gina
Quote from: Bahlien on August 08, 2011, 03:26:57 PM
Oh and...
-Playtron Pass. (Same thing as a season pass I guess but) For those dedicated few (many), who attend fair and don their garb every single weekend to go and play with their friends and be apart of the fair, those people who pay the full price for tickets every time (some times) And never officially become members of cast. Yet by doing so add to the atmosphere and the fun that fair is. A pass for those people. 2/3rds the price of a season pass or something. Honestly believe that customer loyalty (dedication for a passion/hobby/lifestyle) should be rewarded. Even if it was just a one time thing, not a single one would be ungrateful.
The price of water at fairs will always be my one and only complaint about pricing as well. A dehydrated customer base is not healthy. From a recent fair I attended over the summer, was the patrons biggest complaint. Water. It is every year. Purchasing filtered water in bulk (big water jugs) would be far cheaper than hundreds of cases of bottled water. Finding a cost effective way to dispense it would be cheaper than (for the ones who do it) sending the recycled bottles to a center to be recycled. Though, not saying recycling is bad either. It's actually a tax break for businesses that do it. (financial incentive?)
As Merlin and Bahlien suggested: Making bulk water available to those of us that bring our own drinking vessels is brilliant. 3$ for a 12 (yeah, the
small ones) or 20 oz bottle is robbery, and most faires charge the same amount for a bottle of water as for a bottle of pop, though the case of water is 1/2 the price or less what the Mountain Dew is. 1-2$ per visit to fill up a tankard at the Gate, for example, would cover the cost of the 5 gal jug +water fill many times over.
Furthermore, faires should offer a discount for refills on purchased water bottles, especially if they do not allow outside beverages into the park. Single use paper funnels for refills would be a cost effective way to prevent cross contamination between bottle necks if needed. Tankards and cups need not touch the dispensing spout, so they don't need special handling if done with care.
Generally, I do not like sugary drinks but will buy lemonade if it's fresh squeezed. All of the lemonade vendors (excluding the food vendors who also offer it) at our faires give 1$ refills after the initial 3$ cup full If you bring the cup back, so it's cheaper than buying water or pop, though not as healthy.
-Playtron Passes are a great idea. None of the bigger faires here do that, and I agree with the above for all the same reasons. Currently there are only 2 faires in this area that offer a (very small) discount on the gate pass if you show up in garb.
I spend a lot of time and money on my faire clothes, and I interact with other patrons even though I (sometimes) pay full gate so we are free to leave if the weather turns foul, my hubby or I are feeling ill, or the current group of faire virgin 'tweens I'm riding herd on (and who I paid full gate for) gets bored and cranky. An opportunity to purchase a discounted ticket or pass would be welcome.
Shade is a big plus.
It would be nice to see some "out of sight" locker rentals to put items purchased/clothing etc. where things don't have to be taken to a parking lot.
A faire that has camping very near is a plus.
Musicican / vendor / acts and artisan rotations is a plus.
Reasonable season passes or "friends of faire" rates for playtrons that regularly attend and support their faire is a plus.
Garb rentals for mundanes to easily participate is a plus and appears to result in more of the population in garb. The kids love that, both young and old.
A children's area (with babysitter) within view of the back seats of the "R" rated shows.
If the site has to rent portable privies, extra Handicapped Privies would be helpful. Reason being that many of us in garb, particularly the ladies could use the extra space when doing ones business.
Frank Blanton
aka Francis Dungcaster
Scarborough added lockers a couple of seasons ago, at the front gate, behind the medic.
Merlin please forgive me of threadjacking once again but you have started a topic which is of great help to me and one i feel I can ask questions on. Why i do not consider myself a prude i do not truly care for R rated stage shows but prefere PG with inuendos that one must think about. Yes we are all adults but is there anything wrong with PG over R. I also prefere lane acts over stage acts as to paraphrase The world is my stage so why restrict my performers let them play and interact as well. how do you folks feel about limited stage acts and plenty of entertainment?
This is from the St Louis RF site about their Friends of the Faire pgm (Les Amis de Lyon):
"Les Amis de Lyon" is a French phrase and it means "The friends of Lyon".
The Les Amis de Lyon program is designed for those who enjoy the Renaissance Faire but also enjoy being pampered and having special privileges.
A special members-only garden has been set aside for your enjoyment and relaxation. Here you will find a changing area, private privies, unlimited non-alcoholic refreshments, fruit, and possibly other special treats. During the run of the Faire there will be special programs that only you have the opportunity to attend. There might even be a special B-B-Q or potluck luncheon from time to time. Our hosts will constantly be looking for ways to make your stay in Lyon more memorable and enjoyable.
Your membership is not just limited to the 4 weeks of the Renaissance Faire, though. As a member you will be notified of happenings throughout the course of the year. It might be a special event, a swap meet, or some other get-together. You will have access to a members-only web forum where you can discuss virtually anything.
In 2006, Renaissance St Louis expanded its operation with the addition of the St Louis Pirate Festival. (Les Amis de Martinique, operates during the annual St Louis Pirate Festival in September) As a member of Les Amis de Lyon you will have the opportunity to join the other "friends" group for just a small additional amount. This upgrade will afford you all the same privileges for this event, too.
Each member will receive a membership card with the dates of membership on it and should submit it upon request. Children under 12 can have access to the garden when accompanied by a paid member at no extra cost.
Quote from: The Rabbi on August 12, 2011, 08:23:44 AM
Merlin please forgive me of threadjacking once again but you have started a topic which is of great help to me and one i feel I can ask questions on. Why i do not consider myself a prude i do not truly care for R rated stage shows but prefere PG with inuendos that one must think about. Yes we are all adults but is there anything wrong with PG over R. I also prefere lane acts over stage acts as to paraphrase The world is my stage so why restrict my performers let them play and interact as well. how do you folks feel about limited stage acts and plenty of entertainment?
Not thread-jacking at all. My initial hope in starting this thread was that festival operators would get curious and peek in to see what people are looking for, and maybe integrate some of it. Bear in mind that we are not the general public, but I truly think that our excitement at faire has a tendency to overflow and draw new people in.
In response to your first question, raunchy is a lot easier to get laughs from. If you haven't watched any kids' movies lately, you should. You'd be amazed at the amount of bathroom humour. I'm not saying I don't enjoy it myself, but I
will say that I find older comedy (TV and movies) so much funnier in general to anything I've seen in the past 15 years or more. The only exception that comes to mind is
Chicken Run. I laughed myself senseless to that one.
Try watching something from the 40s, 50s, or 60s—
Dick Van Dyke Show,
The Addams Family,
Arsenic and Old Lace,
The Philadelphia Story—the only R's in those was in the some of the titles. Good writing, well-executed. You don't WANT it too raunchy starting out...you'll chase away the family business, which is likely to be your bread and butter. When you get bigger, you can add an area for the Sans Crumb-Crusher Crowd.
I hate to admit that I don't watch more stage acts than I do, but you do need some. Folks need a chance to sit, relax, and enjoy. Being on your feet the whole day can get tough. I have a tendency just to walk, stopping at shops and looking at wares. Age is changing that to some degree...
Butch! Thanks for the info on St Louis FoF. I like that garden idea with the private privies and changing area!
Quote from: The Rabbi on August 12, 2011, 08:23:44 AM
how do you folks feel about limited stage acts and plenty of entertainment?
Well stage acts often provide a few things.
1.) Seating. Which is important to do through out the day, especially on hot ones. Sit, rest, laugh and hydrate.
2.) Seating is (usually) accompanied with shade, gets people out of the sun, cools them off, keeps their moods good.
3.) Uncrowded lanes. Shows in the lanes are okay if there is sufficient room. At a more cramped fair or a highly populated one, crowd drawing acts tends to jam things up a little in the lanes. Single short acts or just witty banter from performers excluded. Having stage acts prevents this from happening to much.
4.) Stages with different locations is a good way to get people to see the whole of the fair, instead of just one or two locations. Better business opportunities for the vendors, and even for planned/improved performances on the lanes.
Things I look for most in a faire are:
- 1. Shady tree covered lanes to walk through
- 2. More of a food selection than chicken fingers and funnel cakes. I like original food that I can't get at every carnival.
- 3. A lot of vendors. My favorite thing to do at faire is shop. I like a place that has so many vendors I can barely get to them all. It's almost like a bazaar / market feel at KCRF, and I absolutely adore it.
- 4. I've never experienced a 'friends of the faire' type of pass for playtrons who come often and dress up, but if there was such a thing, I'd gladly shell out for it.
- 5. Spontaneous lane interaction from the cast. This seems to get the most people involved in the atmosphere, and really can make someone's day. Songs breaking out in pubs, catcalls from the upper levels of the buildings, interactions from wandering cast. All of that makes a faire a truly magical experience that you can't get anywhere else.
- 6. Living history. I don't know that this draws a lot of crowds, but I think having things like a working forge and cast using looms etc. really brings a faire from stationary carnival to historical experience. We always sit in front of the KCRF forge for at least 45 mins, watching them work. It's in a high traffic area too, so a lot of people get involved, then ask around for other living history exhibits.
- 7. This is definitely not a make it or break it thing... but I love a faire that has actual buildings. Taverns, squares, shops etc. The more I feel like I am walking around a bustling town, the more magical the experience. That, and buildings make for great rain cover that can still keep you entertained throughout a storm.
If I have at least one of the things listed above, then I am happy.
Grammerci good Merlin as I must admit to having taken great advantage of the oppurtunity offered here. SoM is held in a very wooded area so shade is covered. While I do not think I will have all the seating I want I too feel the need to sit back and breath in the ambiance of fair. Food dont get me wrong I like my turkey legs and funnel cakes but I too enjoy a more substantive meal be it home made meatpies with veggies included or if someone would be so kind as to provide me information I would also like to indulge any vegans that might attend.( Im a meat and potatoes type of guy but hey to each thier own.) After a discussion with the Redhead we will probably go wit 5 gal jugs of water and make a donation to fill the cup or just fill it no big deal. There will be a small drum circle inside fest grounds for anyone who frrls the need for an inprov sitdown along with a larger drum circle in the camping area. trying to keep the grounds with a natural feel. Working on different ideas and concepts for camping area but we are getting there. Thank you all for such great info.
Quote from: The Rabbi on August 13, 2011, 04:47:39 PMAfter a discussion with the Redhead we will probably go wit 5 gal jugs of water and make a donation to fill the cup or just fill it no big deal. There will be a small drum circle inside fest grounds for anyone who frrls the need for an inprov sitdown along with a larger drum circle in the camping area. trying to keep the grounds with a natural feel. Working on different ideas and concepts for camping area but we are getting there. Thank you all for such great info.
I'm going to threadjack your threadjacking, Rabbi for just a moment. What about possibly contacting a water bottle supply company, and ask if they'd be willing to sponsor your water in return for advertisement, or the ability to hand out pamphlets, etc? The bottled water company out here in MN does this at our state fair. . .possibly you have one who would do the same for you? /threadjacking ;)
As far as things I'd like to see at fest:
Different/darker/older beer styles. I'm a beer snob, and wouldn't mind paying a little more for a good barleywine or old style ale. (I say this while drinking a very tasty maple/birch ale) :)
Cheaper/Free water, as everyone has mentioned here. It's a must, I agree.
Shade! I loved Bristol's tree cover; despite the heat it kept me from completely passing out.
Vendor shifting: I know, I know, everyone likes 'their' spots, but rotation will keep repeat customers interested in hunting you out, and might expose customers to a vendor they wouldn't have normally paid attention to. It keeps people guessing and makes them search more and increase traffic to otherwise underexposed areas.
Allowing hidden fans in stores: again, something I experienced and loved at Bristol. On hot days, I like being able to duck into a store and get a bit of a breeze while checking out goods.
Straws. Darn it, I have sensitive teeth and I would really like straws with my drinks.
Quote from: insidiousraven on August 13, 2011, 12:36:04 AM
- 6. Living history. I don't know that this draws a lot of crowds, but I think having things like a working forge and cast using looms etc. really brings a faire from stationary carnival to historical experience. We always sit in front of the KCRF forge for at least 45 mins, watching them work. It's in a high traffic area too, so a lot of people get involved, then ask around for other living history exhibits.
- 7. This is definitely not a make it or break it thing... but I love a faire that has actual buildings. Taverns, squares, shops etc. The more I feel like I am walking around a bustling town, the more magical the experience. That, and buildings make for great rain cover that can still keep you entertained throughout a storm.
I have to admit to usually not spending all that much time with the living history stuff, but on the other hand, I love it when instead of just demonstrating, the people doing living history teach what their doing. For example, the Germans at BARF teach some basic sword moves, as well as hand to hand combat. And there were ladies at Lady of the Lakes faire that taught finger-weaving. Also, as far as the blacksmiths go, I remember being very pleased that there was one at the Norman Medieval faire in 2009 - it was something like 32 degrees, and very windy, so they provided some nice warmth!
And I love the faires with actual buildings. I know it's not a possibility at a lot of faire sites, but it makes everything feel so much more real.
Another thing I really appreciate is when the games (particularly archery) are a decent price. Archery at Sterling in particular is a really good value, as is (I believe) Lady of the Lakes (though it might have been Sarasota - I can't remember).
Would love to see more Hands-on crafts stuff at faires. How they used to do things vs how things are done now due to technology. There was a blacksmithing group at the CORF this year. Which was awesome to see. They had a propane box-forge going. (think that's what its called?) They enjoyed explaining the processes and various methods of how they did their craft, and had a display of some older tools of the trade. Stuff like that, to me, really adds to the atmosphere.
But you know what I've never seen at a faire? An obstacle course or something like a gauntlet. Don't know if everyone has seen First Knight (Richard Gere, Sean Connery.) not the best movie but it has an awesome obstacle course thing they called the gauntlet... blades and spinning things and all sorts of obstacle doodads. Not that I'm suggesting that, though something similar and not as blatantly dangerous. Would be a great addition/attraction. Pad up (sign a waver) and then go run through a bunch of foam/padded things try to make it to the end, win a prize, and boasting rights.
That sounds like fun.
Facetiously, he said, a giant dome, open at the edge, covering the Faire. Yesterday at the opening of PARF just after 4 PM the skies opened up raining cats and dogs and a few horses and cows. What a deluge! ;D ;D ;D
..A very good idea. Here in Va. we have many Civil War events and a few Rev. War events. Also we have Henricus park and Jamestown, but Faire is the only time folks can see what it may have been like during pre-settlement days. Great idea. Yes.
I suppose I'd wrongly assumed that the working smithies and glassblowers were part of all of the established faires, I so used to seeing them at Scarby (and TRF). They tend to draw very large crowds to the demonstrations. The facilities at Scarby to house these artisans are permanent structures, including the forges and ovens.
It would be nice to be able to watch someone weaving (that's not in a car on the highway), or otherwise creating wares as you watch. I sat and talked with one fellow at Sherwood as he carved funny dwarf figures out of clay, then fired them.
I too enjoy the more educational demonstrations. Frankly, before going to a faire for the first time, I thought it was going to be a lot more demonstrations- more like a colonial/pioneer village. I (and the rest of my family) didn't expect so many buxom wenches and bawdy acts.
With that in mind, some other things I like to see...
A) Someone cooking with H/A ingredients and methods and giving out little samples to passersby so they can see just what people in those times had to subsist on. I'm sure someone brewing a variety of beers on the grounds would be very popular.
B) Lectures on warfare/battle. Not just the joust, but an explanation of what styles of arms/armor were worn during the time, how they were wielded/donned/shed, and common tactics/countermeasures.
c) A recreation of a typical home, so visitors can get a better idea of what living conditions were like back then. You can have the furniture and everything else roped/gated off to keep people from messing with it- like you see in a lot of historical parks.
From the few Faires I have attended here are my likes and wishes.
Flushies yes please, or at least Handicapped johns. I have wide hips and wider skirts.
Lots and lots of shade. With lots of seating to rest my weary bones.
Access to water both for internal and external uses.
Dust Control, this can't always be done, but mulch is better than dirt as was pointed out earlier in the thread.
Holiday weekend rates. If you open for a three day weekend ( Labor day, Memorial Day, Thanksgiving weekend,) then offer a three day pass. Pre -sell it online, but make one available.
One faire we attended offered one free admission with one paid if you brought in 4 can of food for the homeless food bank. It was a great promotion and putting 8 large cans of soup in the car wasn't that big of a problem.
Full Length Mirrors would be wonderful.
Fan's in stores. Yes, a nice merchant who saw me red with heat problems put me in front of their fan once.
Cover the stadium seating if possible. I love the way Scarbie has done this. Sitting in the sun to watch a joust or a chess match can take a lot out of you. I never get to finish because I have to get out of the sun.
Street performers. I love some of the stage acts, but watching both Rennies, and mundanes get into the act with the pro's is a lot of fun.
I think that covers it for now. Great Thread Merlin.
I am truly grateful to Merlin for having started this thread and equally grateful to all who have participated. Have missed everyone greatly the last several days and we are very close to not only finalising the deal for our new home but the new sight of Spirit of Magic. I will be incorporating several of the ideas gleened from this discussion into the creation of the fair grounds and future projects as we grow. The one point of view missing is that of the vendors so guys and gals pipe up let us know as I am sure I am not the only fair owner checking out this thread.
Like many others here, I would also like to see more H/A demonstrations and exhibits. Especially the everyday things, which would be very interesting to most people, and I think it could be something that people would remember as they went back to their "mundane" lives during the week. They would think of the differences and keep their Ren Fest experience fresh in their minds.
I would really like it if my home faire, the MNRF, had a secluded pub tucked away back in the woods. It could be down a wooded path about a block long or so, and the woods could open up to a nice free standing building with flowers, a fire, and period decorations. Plenty of seating and a small stage. They could serve actual meals and maybe some craft brews. A place out of earshot of the main stages, where you could sit with friends and have a nice quiet meal with some good entertainment. Like a "Traveler's Tavern" of sorts, where playtrons could gather and interact with the "general admittance" and really make some good memories.
And Rabbi, I'm with you. I like stage acts, but the best entertainment is on the streets! The ability for the entertainers to interact directly with the patrons and "suck" them into the world of the ren fest, is absolutely the coolest. Some of the best memories happen this way, and I think, it is one of the main things that bring people back year after year.
Everyone has such good answers, what a great topic. Thanks Merlin!
I would like to see more period craft demonstartions. But I suspect that they don't bring in enough income for the faires.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on September 09, 2011, 10:09:39 AM
I would like to see more period craft demonstrations. But I suspect that they don't bring in enough income for the faires.
True, but it also doesn't necessarily have to incur a lot of cost. Certainly, the larger faires could easily support a bit more of this.
Also to be considered, especially for fledgling and smaller faires, is the option of setting up as a 501(c)(3) organization. It would admittedly have to be well thought out, but if you are providing enough in the way of a genuine educational facility, it is a possibility. I understand they (501c3's) have become a little more difficult to set up since I was involved creating one in the late 80s, but it's still an option.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on September 09, 2011, 10:09:39 AM
I would like to see more period craft demonstartions. But I suspect that they don't bring in enough income for the faires.
I don't know if this makes a difference but all the period craft demonstrations at NYRF, my home faire, are done by vendors who also sell their wares. The blacksmith, potter, candle maker, glass blower, pewter casters, leather workers, etc. are at the faire as vendors who also do demos. I don't know of any pure "demonstrators" there.
Ok as a vendor I want to know what can we do to make it more interesting? I try to keep new things coming but any ideas would be welcomed
Please keep in mind at the bigger faires many vendors have built their shops and well are rather attached to them.
Quote from: Adriana Rose on September 09, 2011, 12:53:56 PM
Ok as a vendor I want to know what can we do to make it more interesting? I try to keep new things coming but any ideas would be welcomed
Please keep in mind at the bigger faires many vendors have built their shops and well are rather attached to them.
I've seen this done a few places, but it's always entertaining when the cast interact with the vendors in front of patrons. That way the illusion becomes even more seamless. Almost like hawking, without the hawking.
We do that, Its really fun when we play with everyone cast included. We make our curtseies to the royals, flirt with the gaurds play with everyone else. We also gently hawk too.
Its just seems odd to me when the vendors dont play, so we do it.
Alas my good Lady Rose as I have been informed by more then one vendor "They are there to make a living not entertain the customer" for the record these very same vendors did not vend at my fair either. Huzzah for being a valued part of the entertainment and memory that is part of fair. As I have stated several times Spirit of Magic is about the fun and enjoyment of the fair and being a rennie first and paying my entertainers not about me making money. It is my opinion that vendors should at bare minimuim have a BFA and enteract with the cast when possable. This does not mean leave a customer hanging by no means as I said when possable. FleurDelis I too enjoy a good meal and a Travelers Tavern of sorts is part of my plans. Not sure about our second year but there will be a Camp with a clay oven for bread making and a kettle of Stew or possable Roasted Chicken no more then two items as this would be one more then available at an Inn of the day. As for a cold beir well I am not ready to fight over a beir liscense nor the extra liability insurance to sell so not saying never just not yet.
this will very likely get me dissed. oh well, lol.
In my family of six, we are all BIG POTC fans. Mainly, of course, of Jack. Myself, my two teen daughters, enjoy him greatly. My oldest son, currently 11, spent several younger years in a near constant state of jack sparrow likeness, coming home from school and donning pirate duds, wearing bandannas everywhere we went, even his Make a Wish trip to FL was pirate/POTC themed.
I KNOW there are many Jack impersonators, really good ones. and I KNOW many of them frequent faires, and that they are very serious about being screen accurate.
But we've never seen ONE. At MPF, there was a cool Jack, and before she went to get a pic done with HIM, we realized he was a she. jackie sparrow. Still cool, but....you know. Not cool as in hot!:)
So there. I wish at faire, we could find a serious Jack impersonator, who randomly yelled out lines and was very jack like. I know my daughters would get a kick out of it, and my son, even though he is getting older and no longer dresses like a pirate regularly, would get such a big kick out of it.
I can tell you where there are two very good ones (or were this past year): OkRF in Muskogee, and CoRF in Larkspur. I'm sure that the one at CoRF was cast (also a member of this board), I'm not 100% sure of the one at OkRF.
These folks were a hoot at GLMF.
http://www.lakeeriepirates.com/crew.html
I like the idea of more demonstrations. My daughters will be demonstrating drop spinning and weaving at TRF this year. Their plan is to actually teach these skills to patrons who are interested in learning.
They will also be doing two goat milking demonstrations each day. It would be really interesting to evolve this idea into a model of a tiny working homestead with a family just carrying on doing what they would have been doing on any typical day.
I agree with a lot of what has been said. $2 for water, when the cost of a case of 24 is $5 or less seems a bit of a large margin. Variety in food is key. Large stalls or Handicapped privies help with those of us in armor and carrying weapons as well as the ladies (ever not be able to close a portable privey door because your sword or the handle of the axe on your belt is in the way?)
I have to drive minimum four hours to get to the closest Faire and pay for a hotel for the weekend, so it has to be worth it. For me, visiting a Faire should feel like walking away from the "real" world and into a village from the past. Preferably a village in the woods, with large, mature trees for shade, as well as feel.
Permanent buildings are a must. Sorry to the smaller/travelling Faires, but tents just don't give the right feel. Great Lakes has a combination of buildings and a few tents, and kind of feels like an expanding village, where more people are coming to stay and building as they go, which is cool too. The buildings should not be uniform in their construction, as they wouldn't have been back then. The appearance of kind of put together with what the land and area would have provided is best. REALLY don't want to see inked lumber mill identification stamps on the faces of 2 x 4s or other lumber used in village construction. In fact non uniform lumber looks better in this case anyway..
Ambiance is important. All the characters of a village should be there. Maryland has a drunk and a beggar, or used to, who would follow you around and try to get your lunch, if you let them play with you, and several Sheriffs. Michigan has Nobb the Troll who hangs out on his bridge and sings and interacts with everyone. Large casts with pop-up interactions in the lanes are awesome, and we playtrons can add to that. Perhaps inspected playtrons garbs can result in discounted admission?
-A little (roughly) fenced in area with goats and sheep and pigs for "sale" to simulate a supply of meat for the village?
-A donkey pulled cart with produce (even simulated) walking through the grounds every now and then?
-An apothecary hut or building with a garden of herbs outside it? Pennsylvania has/had a great one.
But is more than just what you see:
-If the Faire doesn't have a blacksmith, how about hiding a speaker hooked up to an MP3 player that plays a loop of the sound of a hammer hitting an anvil every now and then to simulate one?
-I love the smell of a bubbling cauldron of stew, or at least something that smells like stew, suspended over a fire, especially if it is part of permanent (cast) "traveller's" encampment at the edge of the village
-My dad made 4 or 5 little doors (about 3 inches by 6 inches) and corresponding window frames and attached them to several trees around our family cottage, about ten feet off the ground. Now my 3 year old daughter believes our cottage is in a fairy forest, it is adorable
I guess that as I walk away from my mundane car, I want 2011 reality to fall away and to stroll into the existence that I wish had, and keep that feeling all day.