I'm curious as to what it is that people look for at faire for entertainment. I know we get used to certain performers, and we certainly have our favourites, but is there a time to have, or let, them move on? I ask only to spur on a discussion, not an argument.
It's my opinion that change is necessary to the survival of a faire. That change can be simply that the same actors have different acts, and we don't lose our faves. But sometimes, the actors just don't seem to come up with anything new, sometimes for very long periods. That was the case with one of our personal faves, so it came as no real surprise when their run ended at one of the faires we attend. As much as we hated it, we were also relieved.
Should anyone blame the owners? If the act has stagnated, then my opinion is most definitely no. On the other hand, for any popular act that is bringing in new material each season, it would be total folly for owners to drop them. The key is obviously keeping it fresh.
We all have different tastes. One act that is extremely popular, and is at (seemingly) every faire in the country (at least that I'm attending) I find totally out of place, and totally irritating. My mission is to be on the other end of whatever faire they're performing at. I dislike the act that much! But that's just me. I don't like coconut, either.
I appreciate being exposed to new entertainers, fresh comedians, new old music (?). No, it's not all good...some sucks, and other acts are great. Without opening slots for the new acts, by not bringing back the tired old acts, we might not have ever had a chance to sample the really good new entertainment that faire has to offer.
Basically, the question may be, why do you go to the faire every year to see/hear the same acts?
Any participants in the discussion are urged to keep it general. I don't want anyone naming and trashing any acts!
I personally think if you are going to hire the same act then they should really be prepared to bring something new to the table, I dont often watch a movie more then once either. Now I am a big Sam Elliot fan and will watch him in any movie he appears in and Sam Elliot plays Sam Elliot but the role is different. I have a corp group of performers that will appear hopefully for many years to come as I have seen them at several other fairs and have yet to see the exact same performance out of any of them. There is nothing wrong with a favorite group as there is a certain amount of comfort in knowing they will perform a favorite tune with a sing a long or two. However I also believe that as a fair owner I am responsable for giving a new act a chance to showcase thier talents as well. If you are standing still you will soon start to stagnate it is the Fair Owners responsability and duty to his/her guest to provide the biggest bang for the buck that they are capable of providing. If an act is allowed to stagnate then the fair owner or entertainment director should be capable of informing an act to pick it up or pack it up.
*shrug* It's a business. Sometimes contracts can just not be agreed upon for financial or scheduling reasons. Sometime there are personal differences and the fit is no longer there, and sometimes it's just time for change on either side. I like seeing old favorites year after year, feels like coming home, but it's nice to see new talent as well. Change happens. It's the circle of (faire) life. :)
I do however think if you find your faire has overlooked a favorite performer, write them and let them know they are missed. Petitioning is a good thing if kept respectful
Oddly enough, we don't really watch all that many shows. There are just so many things to see and do at Faire, and trying to get to a particular stage at a certain time is generally more than I can manage, unless we're with someone who wants to see something specific. If we happen upon a stage that is just about to start a show, and it sounds fun or interesting, though, we'll sit and watch. So I guess we just haven't really seen any of them enough times to have gotten tired of the material... yet.
There are some acts that were my absolute favorite when I first started going to faire, but over a decade later, some are doing the EXACT same show they were doing back then... I've already seen/ heard it soooo many times I have it memorized. Now I just get bored watching them. I would love to see them come up with new material, but if not, then I'm no longer interested.
I am on both sides of the fence- I like being able to see those familiar people/ acts that have become part of the overall "faire" feeling for me, but I also enjoy seeing the new stuff and finding new favorites each year.
Just my two cents.
(and Merlin, I am sooo curious as to what would make you go out of your way to avoid a particular show! PM me if you would be willing to share!)
Quote from: Rani Zemirah on February 02, 2012, 11:42:43 PM
Oddly enough, we don't really watch all that many shows. There are just so many things to see and do at Faire, and trying to get to a particular stage at a certain time is generally more than I can manage, unless we're with someone who wants to see something specific. If we happen upon a stage that is just about to start a show, and it sounds fun or interesting, though, we'll sit and watch. So I guess we just haven't really seen any of them enough times to have gotten tired of the material... yet.
I echo Rani. I go to faire to relax, meet with friends and just set my own pace. Being obligated to catch X's show has never been part of my routine. But I look at it as any other type of entertainment venue, a club being the prime example. If they host a house band and it keeps them coming in, awesome. But that house band will also need to change their venue at least a little often or they will get stale to the audience. And if it gets too stale, then the house will hire others to keep interest high.
And also like any other venues of comedians, bands etc....those change up with new material and new songs, etc. And yes like Tink I have some "favorite" performers, but their same old show gets tiring and only used when I bring newcomers along to share in the magic. But they still need to change up once in a while. ;)
My actual favorite entertainment is interacting with the mundanes, especially the younglings. Todays children are tomorrows Participants afterall. ;D
I like to see my old favorites but I guess I'm finally old enough to realize that some things will change. New and talented acts are always welcome in my opinion.
It is inevitable that we will lose some acts either because they move to a different part of the country, finances force them to take steadier work, they age out of the act, or not to be morbid, but they leave this life altogether.
I'm grateful that there seems to be plenty of younger people willing to step up and continue to entertain us and become our friends.
We travel to several faires each year and always try to attend at least one new one. With that said, I like change. If there is a particular act we like seeing, I am sure we can find it somewhere. From a business side, change is important to keep the vast majority coming back, most of them not having the connection that the regulars have. We approach Faire differently too, our home Faire, which we attend several times each year, is much more social with friends, whereas the ones we attend once per season are more about the shops and acted, and our chance to see new things.
I usually do not sit through a show. There is way too much to do than sit at faire. I like some others find it necessary to interact all day long with friends and 'danes. It's what a wench does.
Gina
There are acts that I LOVE, and acts that I also will go out of my way to avoid. It's a matter of personal taste, really.
There's one act that does several major festivals, on prominent stages, which I've stopped to actually watch all the way through a total of maybe a dozen times over the 5 years I've been going regularly to faire. They have a different show for each timeslot at Scarby, yet I know 90% of the lines for each one. I encourage newbies to see it at least once, but I don't make any effort to go, unless I'm taking someone specifically to see it. It's not that I dislike the act, but I would love to see them come up with something new.
There are acts that I've seen at other festivals that I would LOVE to see at Scarby, but alas, they don't come this far south or west.
There are acts that I miss from Scarby, but I'm thrilled that they've found more success elsewhere, whether it be on the stage, or whether their time at faire was only ever intended to be temporary.
I like to see the Faire tweak their lineup every once in a while. Mostly we only watch the musicians because they change their song list . The big shows ie dedbob and mud show to name two are fun to watch once but for the most part never change, they are there for the one day a year faire goers and with so much to do and see we can't sit there for a long show. We go 6 or more differant faires besides are home faire MIRF so we get to see some old friends that no longer play at MiRF.
Quote from: Rani Zemirah on February 02, 2012, 11:42:43 PM
Oddly enough, we don't really watch all that many shows. There are just so many things to see and do at Faire, and trying to get to a particular stage at a certain time is generally more than I can manage, unless we're with someone who wants to see something specific. If we happen upon a stage that is just about to start a show, and it sounds fun or interesting, though, we'll sit and watch. So I guess we just haven't really seen any of them enough times to have gotten tired of the material... yet.
Ditto Rani and Merlin-Hubby and I like the shows when we need to rest our feet, but will rarely sit through the same one more than once, and more often than not, we will skip the shows entirely.
It seems that most of the 'successful' acts out there never seem to change or add much material, or at best have 'rotating' shows so they don't appear to do the same one more than once per day. This works for the 1 day patron, but those of us that are there all day, everyday, we don't bother to watch after one time, and will skip it entirely the next year.
Stand up comedians know that you are only as good as your new materiel, same with magic acts and storytellers. I do agree with Merlin that while certain acts are good the first time or two, if they never deviate from the 'formula' they have always used, they are doomed. I can think of a few acts and two in particular that I really don't know why they are still working at the big venues. I have heard mundanes complain that it was the same show last year, and they won't bother to see them again.
I do not go to faire to see acts. I go to walk around a bit do some shopping talk to and play with patron, and then hit the pub. Mainly I find I cannot do the walking to much any more. My physical afflictions(every itis know to man in every joint I own) make it so. Sometimes I think I even hurt in places that do not belong to me. When we go to Atlanta, it is usually one turn around the faire, a stop at the tea garden for lunch and then sit in the pub until end of pub sing and then go home. I have seen most all of the acts in one variation or another. The only time I might sit thru an act is if we bring friends that maybe have not seen Ded Bob. As for repeats, I could be wrong but most of them do not change because they play to a different crowd every week and there will be a good percentage of them who have never seen the act. Now from the other side of the coin, I have delivered the same lines at faire for many years, and yes they are old and repetitive to me and I have even heard the comment ' why don't you get some new jokes'. This from the significant other of one of the performers, to which I reply 'why don't you sit down and write me some'. Keep in mind that very few of the great comediens of the past wrote their own, material. Hope, Benny, Berle, Durante and all the rest had writers so if you not a professional comedian and can't afford that, then you are stuck with what you yourself can come up with, and unfortunately most times that is very little.
IMHO: That and $1.25 gets you a cup of coffee.
I enjoy seeing new things, but I also enjoy seeing repeat performers. That said, if at least something in the act doesn't change every few years, it gets stale and boring. Seems everyone agrees on that. :)
Another reason I'll go see the same show year after year is because my friends are in it. That makes it MUCH more interesting/entertaining.
Currently, I'm stuck in the position where the only faire around doesn't have ANY of the type of acts I really enjoy. I really like the comedy truck shows, especially if they're the sword fighting variety. The faire I can go to? Has musicians. And like 2 children's "theater" shows (we'll pull audience members up to act out the little kids story). And I think one magician (also aimed at kids). Music is nice, but it's not my primary reason for going to faire, and when it all sounds the same it gets boring fast. :(
There are certain shows who's performers we are friends with, and we go to their shows to show support. Then we do try to see one new to us show each time we go. I just remember the years where we were running from one show to another at TRF and I really wasn't having that much fun. There is something about picking 2 shows we want to see and then meandering from one place toanother. The PP had the most fun just finding a cool bench and parking himself there and people watch. He had alot of younglings come by ( and cute girls ;D) He also got to chat with alot of different people.
There are certain shows that just out grow faires. I know of one act that started at TRF and now are performing in vegas and other large venunes, but they started at faires. If they didn't leave our faires that we enjoy, others across the US and world wouldn't be enjoying them now. Yeah, it stinks they are no longer there, but now there are new acts to see, and maybe become as big as they are.
This is very interesting to read.
My very first time at faire I was all by my lonesome, so shows allowed me to walk around and see as much as I wanted.
Unfortunately my beloved and I don't have many friends to begin with- we are ones to partake in the "lets go out and spend our paycheck to get hammered till 2 in the morning" so in south florida that makes for limited aquaintances- and absolutely no friends that are rennies.
So for us shows are a way to give us something new to look forward to.
Don't get me wrong we would both love to have rennie friends that we could go and hang out at the pub with- but alas for now that isn't the case
so for me- it drives me crazy when the shows are repeated verbatim by the acts.
A couple of years ago we saw this awesome comedy/swordfight act at a new little pirate fest on the west coast of florida- had us rolling on the benches in laughter.
We found them again a year later at BARF and their show was identical verbatim. We figured- no sweat its a new venue for them- but the next year- the show was identical- they played 3 times a day and each one didn't deviate at all from the others.
Needless to say we don't look for them anymore.
Part of the reason we are lack luster in our enthusiasm for our local faire this year is that their entertainment is identical to what it has been the last 5 years.
So combine that with the lack of friends to visit with and 80% of the vendors are the same- not much to stimulate interest.
And just to add more perspective- we are the kind of people that will watch a movie we love a couple of times a year- Ive lost count of how many times I have seen some of my favorites- its just not the same for a stage act I guess.
I try to watch as many shows as I can at the festivals. Some that I like, I don't mind them repeating their format. But from one season to the next, I prefer that they have a little new material. BUT, I also like it when an act has so much material that, although it is the same stuff, it is put together differently!
New acts, yes! I like them too!
I enjoy musicians and most I have seen do not have more than a vague routine, often asking for requests of specific songs or kind of songs. They interact more closely with the audience.
Some acts I enjoy time after time (like mud shows and other sight gag types). Those that rely on dialog or set jokes I see a little less often. Ded Bob has large audiences and always lots of new faces so even if his material is old, I enjoy watching the audience reaction. Some acts I avoid – I find them boring or particularly insulting.
When I'm with someone, we try to catch some specific acts (bird shows, belly dancers, whatever is chosen for the day). By myself, I alternate between shows and sitting to people watch. Last year at Sherwood was the first time I was at Faire alone; it was a totally different experience.
With working cell phones, this year at TRF I was able to wander away from the family units, settle down for people watching, had a nice chat with Queen Bonnie of Meow Manner, and had some calm time for me. When they wanted me, they just phoned and I told them where I was.
I GO FOR THE VENDORS, THEY ALWAYS HAVE NEW AND GREAT THINGS EACH AND EVERYTIME .....
I'm actually a bit surprised to see how many respondents don't even take in shows! Admittedly, we don't stop to see a lot of shows, that is, we don't hop from one to another filling up our day, but we do enjoy catching them when we can. Between the four festivals we visited last season, we saw new shows at all four, and thoroughly enjoyed each and every one.
I for one enjoy the shows and watch a lot of them. I like variety so enjoy new acts or old, familiar performers who change things up from year to year. Fortunately, many of my favorites are musical acts so all they have to do is sing a different song and then it doesn't matter how many years they've been at faire!
There are some old favorites who I watch just for old times sake or because we've become friends but if they haven't changed their routine in years--and some of them haven't--then I'll watch them once and give them a pass for the rest of the season. We'll chat in the lanes but I don't go to their shows.
As for new acts, bring 'em on! I love catching new shows and always try to fit them in my schedule because you never know what new act will become an old favorite in a few years.
Maybe a lot of faires do this but at my home faire (NYRF), they do test runs on new acts. They'll invite them to perform for a weekend and if the patron reactions are good, they may get signed for the following season. Faire management is very responsive to patron feedback and really does try to give us what we want. I always share my opinions with them when we run into each other on the grounds, and in an annual post-faire e-mail.
As an act, I can't speak for the patrons but WE get bored if we don't change it up. Also, our talent pool varies from show to show. You might see the same "show" but maybe not the same way. (I am reminded of a kid's act we altered for a rainy faire with NO kids in the audience. We can never, ever do that again but even the performers had a good time pushing those boundaries) We have faires that we've been doing for almost a decade but the owner knows we'll always be a good time.
I agree about the "same act year after year" but the flip side is that that act is *very* good generally.
It's a hard call for organizers. I know acts I thought were *awful* but the patrons like them, and for organizers, like any other business, it's the bottom line of what the customers like and will pay.
Merlin good Sir please forgive but might I be so bold as to add another thought here. Seeing as many of us catch shows as we catch them does this mean we would much rather catch a 5 minute lane act over a 30 minute stage act? Here is my thoughts to get things started. I totaly enjoy an interactive stage show that maintains a steady pace as anytime you bring an audiance member onstage you might lead them in the direction of choice but you can not control the path they take. Musical shows I can be entertained by for a short period but they serve just as well as background to the ambiance. Combine this into a lane act and it is the best of both worlds. I am a huge fan of lane acts and if they are good I tip well if bad I do not feel any obligation to tip but to continue my journey through fair. On the same note I have interacted with a lane act that was mediocra at best and tipped average or better on thier ability to interact. I for one would much rather have more lane acts over stage acts any day.
I'd like to respond to both Temper and Rabbi.
Temper, no question that practice makes perfect, and when you know the routine backward and forward, it would be extremely well-polished. An act that wants to work that angle, might be better served to rotate the faires that they work each year. That way, they could introduce new material more slowly, and still be fresh to most audiences, and get the kinks worked out while still surrounded by the safety net of proven material.
Those of us who have gotten older, despite our attempts to ward off the process, have to sit and rest a little more frequently. A stage act helps—keeping us occupied at least, and well-entertained at best—while we rest our weary bones. But something in your post, Rabbi, is significant to my position in the matter: interactive. If the act is really good at improv, and I think that's critical with live audiences, the fact that the outcome is unknown is what makes the show something you want to see over and over. Most acts do some, the best, IMHO, do it a lot.
A little perspective. If the thought of "old, stale, & boring" cause you to walk past a stage, consider the plight of the vendors & boothies in booths close to said stage who are trapped & have no way to escape. Especially if the same acts return to that stage year after year. That joke that was so great the first time or two gets really old by the end of a season. I once worked a booth next to a belly dance stage. I think I saw them 500+ times in the years I worked that booth. As much as I love that group of girls, they & we got really tired of seeing each other by the end of the run.
I have favorites at the faires I go to. Sometimes the unchanging aspect of some of those favorites shows makes for a comfortable familiarity, sometimes it's a "here we go again". SOMETIMES that depends on my mood on that particular faire day. However, at one time, those favorite acts were new to me (and perhaps the faire itself). While I hate to see acts that have become friends to me not be invited back...I look forward to being exposed to new people and acts; and hopefully making new friends and finding new favorites.
Faire is first and foremost a business...albiet one that lends itself to becoming "family" very easily to many of us. For the sake of having the faire survive and thrive, I am perfectly willing to suffer a few "losses".
Ironically, my home faire is going through just this sort of changeover...this coming season will be bittersweet with the loss of some familiar and popular acts, but I am also anticipating the new.
After 10 years at the same faire, I've learned to watch the schedule, facebook, and any ren faire forums for notices that someone new is coming to perform. My family and I have our favorites, and we still watch them once a season or so to show our support. I noticed this past season though, when it comes to these favorites and their tried and true acts, I've begun to derive just as much enjoyment from watching the audience, as I do from watching the performers. Maybe that means the show is stale, or that I'm just happy to see people enjoying themselves. I don't know. I do find myself hoping for some new material though. I can understand doing the same act for the entire season, but for a decade of them?
Having worked (in what seems like a past life) for live shows in the past, one of the problems with adding new shows for these individual acts is that sometimes when you change you catch as much flack as just keeping the same shows year after year.
In other words:
Show XYZ does the same three sets each year for 5 years.
They change one of their sets and because people are asking for something new.
Year 6 they launch a new set.
All they hear during year six is "Why did you take that other set out?"
It is a real catch-22 for the performers.
Simple answer is, "we got tired of doing it." Been doing shows with bands since the 60s. Without updating material, we'd lose our audience. Got to keep it fluid. It doesn't mean you can't put different sets into a rotation. That would make more sense to me when the material is good.
After seeing the exact same act every year for 4 or 5 years, we quit going to one show, which had been our favourite. They could easily have added back in some of the skits that they did when we first saw them, and we would have kept coming. But seriously, how can you keep laughing after hearing the same joke over and over? That act isn't at our home faire any longer. After not seeing them for 3 years, I'm ready for a fix.
I have noticed that Wine & Alchemy has added some songs to their repertoire that we are used to hearing Owain Phyfe perform. Some work, others not so much. But it certainly beats hearing exactly the same six songs every weekend.
When I go to faire, I enjoy walking around and taking in all the sights and sounds of faire. I do attend some acts that I may have seen before, and even liked. Sometimes, the performers change their act a bit, and other times it is still the same routine. I can understand why some performers stick with the same show. There is a good percentage of the audiences that may have never seen the show before, so they may want to give that crowd a taste of the same act. Now, if the performer has multiple shows throughout the day, I can see where the act should be changed up a bit, like maybe do the same routine for the first show, and then kind of change it up a little for the next bits?
Like many before me, I don't really attend shows when I go to faire, with one or two exceptions. One of the very first times at faire, my friends and I caught Sound and Fury at TRF, they do 30 minute bawdy renditions of Shakespeare plays. They were hysterical. We saw Romeo and Juliet Version 3.0 I think, and the next year was Testicles and the Sack of Rome (yes, very punny) And we've seen the same show for 5 or 6 years now. It's like a tradition, we HAVE to see them perform Testicles.
However...we've HAD to see them perform Testicles for 6 years in a row :/ They change it up a bit, and while it still makes me laugh, I think it would be interesting to see their other stuff, but every time I go, it's the same show. I'll also stop for a good bagpipe band, but other than that, I get antsy sitting for so long, I imagine I'm burning daylight and just want to take in the lanes for as long as I can.
Last season at TRF, I caught Circa Paleo and while I had their CD (thanks to the Christmas gift exchange from this forum!) I was amazed to hear them live. Their stuff was beautiful and it made me think about what else I was missing by not sitting in on my shows and musicians. Perhaps I'll rectify that this season!
Quote from: DonaCatalina on May 22, 2012, 10:33:37 AM
I have noticed that Wine & Alchemy has added some songs to their repertoire that we are used to hearing Owain Phyfe perform. Some work, others not so much. But it certainly beats hearing exactly the same six songs every weekend.
I can see that being a real problem for those of you who are weekly visitors, if I can tire of an act just visiting the faire 2-3 weekends a year.