Okay since there isn't an actual discussion section, I thought I'd post here.
I had a heated debate with a good friend of mine on the way home the past weekend about some of the policies of fair and some of the changes that have been made this year. Specifically whether or not the fair was a "fantasy" fair or not, and if it should be treated as such. Also whether or not that fantastical characters should be allowed. Even from patrons.
My argument is yes it should be treated as "fantasy". And yes, fantastical characters should be allowed.
A) we no longer live in the time period we're attempting to portray.
B) It's not an ACTUAL recreation of the said time period. (FOR many reasons)
C) It would be terribly boring if was a recreation.
D) Without the fantastical characters there would be no magic to the fair.
E) With the cutting of some of the street cast this year, there IS a drop in said "magic".
It being a complete recreation would require everyone to acquire actual period clothing, made from period cloth. No food served could be cooked by modern methods. No soda stands, no shops using goods made from modern methods or materials. The list could go on. With all that in mind a good number of people who sell goods and work any wonderful Renaissance festival would be either out of work, or incredibly exhausted from having to do things the old fashioned way. Not to mention EVERYTHING transported in would have to be done so by wagon and horse. Just as well for our wonderful fair, it would have to be put closer to a source of water.
There's just too much to be done to have it treated as an actual recreation. So that leaves it only to be treated as a fantasy fair. IS there anything wrong with that? No. Not at all. It's a place removed from reality, where people can talk with accents, dress as knights, dragons, princes and princesses, kings, queens, fairies, Scotsmen, gypsies, knaves, beggars, pilgrims, nuns, priests, elfs, nymphs, pirates, rogues. Anything they want! Thats what creates the magic, the energy, and the LIFE of any renaissance festival.
It really gets me when I hear people saying that someones outfit isn't the right period. Or that there may be to many mythical characters, or that they shouldn't be allowed at all. Especially from the higher ups! They have no idea how much influence that all really has on the fair. Attitudes like that just destroy the whole thing, and its something thats been more present this year. Maybe I'm the only one who has noticed it?
Anyway thats my rant and now I'm getting off the soap box. Feed back is welcome!
Bahlien
For the most part I agree with you.
Fantastical creatures such as fairies, dragons, unicorns and such should be allowed. These things help make it a magical place for children and adults. They should be there as cast because you would see limited interaction of those not cast dressed this way who are playtons to the crowds if they were not.
While I must admit I for one am a wee bit tired of seeing so many pirates and barbarians and not enough wenches, peasants, middle class and noble types of playtons, those types (pirates and barbarians) belong there just as much as everyone else. And Capt Jack is a great one to have around once again for the patrons. I did get a kick seeing Obi-Wan and Princess Leia on opening weekend.
My one and only big complaint with faire is the Noble court. If we have King Henry, let us have Queen Katherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, Anne of Cleaves, Katherine Howard and Katherine Parr. Then add in Edward, Princess Mary, Princess Elizabeth, Cardinal Wolsey, Princess Mary (Henry's sister), Thomas Cromwell and many other's of King Henry's court. I don't even feel that they have to look like them. But then again if we could get VIII to Colorado or anyone else who really did look like King Henry it would make it more educational.
Personally I had a kick being stopped many times to be asked if I was the Queen. Having a dozen little girls come up to me to talk to me or try and give me map pieces really made my faire experience that much more fun. And to think I wasn't even cat, but I was sure treated as such dressed as Katherine Parr dress, French Hood jewelry, attitude and all.
I look at the Renaissance Festival in this way. It is a great place to make it a place to learn of past history in all forms. It is fun to look through wares NOT made overseas for the most part. Even if crafted with modern technology, I can trust that the majority of any item I might consider buying is not made in China.
As for the food. I think what they have is a nice sampling of the NOT so ordinary items that people get at McD's or other fast food resurants.
I for one enjoy looking at ALL costumes historical in design or style or not.
I for one would never work the faire as I refuse to sell food, cook food, or work for a vendor. So I just play and have fun and enjoy all the sights.
I will add that 1 "DUMB" drunk barbarian gave me a great story as to why my chalice is now bent out of shape.
I was drinking out of it and as I walked by he said "HEY DUDE" So as Toki and I now say, he came on fresh to this noble and I beaned him over the head with my chalice. Searves that filty Barbaian right for hitting on a noble. And thus adding yet more fun to my one visit of many to this years faire.
So you have my 2 pence worth... or not.
(pardon the cross-posting)
One of my favorite quotes: "Renaissance faires are an opportunity to wear funny clothing and run amok" ... I wish I knew who to give credit to!
Notice the lack of additoinal adjectives in front of clothing ...
Part of me cringes at some things ... like when some asked why I was not color-coordinating ... and I am generally annoyed at turkey legs (they're an AMERICAN bird, almost a national symbol, but that's another story), but that's all in good humor.
But I LOVE faire ... the history, the fantasy the atmosphere, the entertainments. I try not to nit-pick the details - especially the historical accuracy, since to go to extremes would drain such a big part of what makes a faire wonderful ... in my opinion.
the nitpicking in general tends to ruin the magic of it. especially because the patrons love the variety and most of them don't care whether or not we're all "period".
Lady Delaney!
I have to say...I am equal parts stung and in agreement with you. I agree that we should make the characters on the court more historically accurate, however, I think they aren't because the fair is technically a fantasy fair, and mixing fantasy and history doesn't seem to work in the minds of the powers that be. If we were to make it all historical, it would be terribly boring, because then of course we couldnt have things like the Unicorn and fairies. I personally think that it would SUCK! without characters like Twig and Periwinkle.
But ouch because, we may be small, but we are a pretty kick weed puller court. Our costumes are just as historical as yours. :( 8 of the people on court..that I can recall at the moment, men and ladies, are wearing costumes made by the costumer that is there at fair...(Noblesse Oblige)...which are incredibly pricy and as close to accurate as Colorado climate will allow. We are trying....thats all I think that can be asked of us considering our numbers were considerably cut. :( there's my rant for the night.
Lady Remi
If you re-read my post you will find that I make NO comment about H/A clothing. I state I enjoy looking at ALL costrumes H/A or not.
My comment about the court was not that they are a bad court, or that out of place or not even fun. My comment was meant to say I would rather see a court based on historical characters. If we have Henry VIII, let us have Anne Boleyn, or Anne of Cleaves or any of the other 4. In fact bring them all in, as Henry was having his fun with Anne and Mary Boleyn and Betsy Blout when he was with Katherine. He was having fun with Jane when he was with Anne. He may have been having fun with someone when he was with Jane, He was most diffently having fun when he was with Anne of Cleaves with Katherine Howard, and once again who knows if he was having fun when he was with Katherine Parr.
Toss Mary into the mix instead of Beatrice his daughter-in-law? or who ever his son was. If he has a son lets have Edward even an older Edward would be OK. You can still have just as much fun while being acurate on the court and even have the fantastical, mystical creatures. Remember that Mermaids and dragons were believed to exist in the time of the Renaissance as did fairies.
So back to court clothing. As I state here and on my original post I never said anything about it being H/A or not. Noblesse Oblige is beautiful garb. I have admired it for years. I do not however like them as a business. I found them un-professional. When I was looking for garb that was more courtly I approached them last year and talked to them. I got a business card and emailed them many times. I never once got a responce. So I gave up on them. Yes they are pricy and I was willing to pay their price... I didpay a higher price in the dress I have now. I got it from a forum member who did communicate and wanted my business and I found that Noblesse Oblige did not. Enough said on that buy it, make it or commision it, it all works H/A or fantasy.
If you read my post also on the fantastical characters you would see that I agree that they SHOULD be there. I poked fun at all the pirates and Barbarians. it seems since PoTC the Pirate craze has grown. Don't get me wrong I LOVE Pirates. And the only one of cast I know of is Jack, who once again I love seeing CaptJack doing a great Depp as Captain Jack Sparrow. It is funny that all I see the Barbarians and pirates doing is congregating at the bars to get drunk. Hence the one barbaian saying HEY DUDE! I guess I should ave replied YO, Barb Dowg, Wud Up? Instead I snubbed my nose at him like a noble would.
As I also said Faire should be part learning all fun. Most kids and Most adults have NO idea about this time of history... any history for that matter. At faire they can see glass being blown, and a spinner, and pot maker. I didn't however see the blacksmith and cannot recal seeing him for three years.
So Lady Remi, I invite you to re-read my post. I love CoRF. I have been attending for about 20 years now. Always in garb (accept once). This being the first I had garb that was even near to H/A. Two years ago I wore a dress I thought was great and was even told by vendors it rivaled court. I laughed at that as it was no where near court. This year as I said I was stopped so many times I lost count. First time this has ever happened and talk about improving someone with a very low self esteem. Why did people stop and ask if I were Queen? I guess I was dressed like one, carried myself like one. And in no way am I saying those of court did not.
I did have to admire watching the women of court getting dressed in the parking lot all by themselves. I couldn't do that with my dress if I wanted to. But then again I love the fact that my BF has to help me. It makes me feel more the queen that I am not or ever will be.
So to end this, CoRF is KICK weed puller, I agree 100%, your garb is devine I want some, just the business doesn't want my business. I love the fantastical characters TWIG and Uni Included. Once again I will not work faire as I don't want to be in the food/drink or retail side. If I were to work faire, I would want to do court and I am no actress. Musician once yes and not afraid of talking to crowds, but talking to someone one on one I don't know, that is harder and I applaud the court for being able to do just that. The little girls that wanted to talk to me, I was not sure what to say. i think I do now if stopped again when I come back on the 28th and end of August.
So if I offended you, I did not mean to, or anyone who works faire. Just re-read my post. I even tried to add a bit of humor to make it sound I was for faire the way it stands... with the exception of renaming those in court. I love CoRF, I love Renaissance Faires, I LOVE HISTORY as I am a major History buff.
Forgive me for what I am going to say here!
If you want a fully historically accurate place to play go and join the SCA! I for one am not going to wear five layers of wool and stand out side in 80+ heat! There is no fair any where that is remotly historically accurate! There are steps by the powers that be are taking to make the fair better even though there is a fair amount of griping from people.
Also one has to look at the patrons, not the die hards like we are but the average Joe that says hey that looks like fun. They dont want to go into a history lesson that they pay 16 bucks a head to get in. They want fun, also there is a debate if we are going *gasp* too Disney. These people bring their kids and they want to have fun to and not have their kids see things that kids should not see. Hence the fairies and the unicorn. If we piss these people off they wont come back and that is money out of the pockets of all the people involved in the festival!
*steps off soap box*
I was asked if I was a princess by a small girl this weekend. When I told her no, she said, "Yes, you are, you're pretty" She was like 4 or 5 and decided EVERYONE was a princess. It was great. She didn't care who the court was. Or even how they were dressed. She even thought that the groveling peasant was a princess. This is faire.
I agree with Blushing on the turkey legs. More than the potatoes in the beef stew, those bother me. I can play off the chocolate and coffee as being marvelous new discoveries from the New World, but not the turkey legs.
I was having a discussion with someone about character development. He was telling me all this background and tidbits and how his accent came about and why he wore what he wore. I finally stopped him and said, "Three people that come through those gates will care. The rest just want you to be nice to them and have a great butt" I came to that realization after writing two pages of background on my character (a few years ago when we were supposed to have 'depth'). This year, half of my character's background was wiped out by one person adopting one title, so oh well. Nobody knows who I am, and it's alright, I look great in my bodice.
I agree with Lady Delany about not enough middle class, wenches, and the like both from cast and patrons. It's an ongoing problem. We have, I think, 3 middle class characters, if I remember properly, on cast. I thought I was one, but I'm not, I'm apparently upper class...an appointed official and all.
And this year, for once, I can't blame the lack of middle class and peasants on having a huge court. The court really isn't that big this year. Not like the year of six Queens. That was an odd year. "Bow! It's the Queen...and the Queen...and the Queen...and the Queen...and the Queen...and the Queen." Our Queen is Queen Anne...so it's up to you to decide which one it is, I guess.
I swear that all made so much sense in my head. ;)
Quote from: Adriana Rose on June 24, 2008, 10:44:04 AM
If you want a fully historically accurate place to play go and join the SCA!
I personally would have to argue that a wee bit... not a lot however. The SCA is more Medieval and not Renaissance. They fight with wooden sticks and do not allow hits below the knee. They also do not use real sword combating methods. The lay a sword over their shoulder and SNAP it in (At least the group in Colorado did that last I watched them. I had and and still have friends in the SCA. I looked into it myself, but I'm not into all the politics, nor do I want someone wacking me with a shovel handle in the head.
Now there are groups in Europe who personally I think are totally NUTS who do use real steel to fight in armor. They love it, but that's those blokes, not use Yanks. And injures are common.
But the SCA is as far as I know as historical as it gets in the US for trying to create a society of by gone times.
As for anyone dumb enough to wear 5 layers of wool let alone even 2 in Colorado summer heat... send them to England with those crazy blokes who fight with real steel.
Real Combat... or as real as we can get in these times does happen. If you go to the Estes Park Scottish Highland Festival they do in fact have full on live combat jousting. The joust for a huge pot of money... huge for that sport that is. the 2006 camp broke his collar bone last year jousting in the combat joust. He went on to do the games of skill with it broken on Saturday and was back to the live joust on Sunday. 2 Women jousted and one was knocked silly. Another knight was knocked from his horse and lay on the ground for about 15 minutes.
As for more on the SCA they help run the Colorado Medieval Festival. To me this one is not even 1% of the fun of the CoRF
So just my view on SCA from what I have seen, heard and studied about.
And yes Tanda it does make since even in my head so you did well ;D
So I am not the only one that has gotten it!
On the court dress.. Even the gowns that arent from Nobless ( insert drool line here) cost an arm and a leg!
Okay....*sigh*
First and foremost, I honestly didnt mean to start this whole argument...I did read your post again Lady D and I see what you were trying to say. But it still made me feel the same way. I was in no way angry or anything like that, I kind of just felt like "huhooo...we are really trying to do a good job"
I was also agreeing with you about needing to keep the fantasy creatures. A long time ago, we used to have the actual characters Henry VIII and Anne Boelyn...I know because my aunt portrayed her for the fair, and it worked. Why the PTB have decided against having them...I can only guess, but I suppose they have their reasons.
I know more than any one person ever need know about Henry VIII and his wives, I think you are probably the only person that I have seen that can rival my knowledge on the subject. Or at least the only person that has advertised that they know a lot about the era anyway...and I totally agree. If we are going to have King Henry and Queen Anne....why not just add VIII and Boleyn to the ends of the names. What harm would it do? again....I have no idea. We had the 6 queens...what was it...3 years ago now...and that just turned out to be lame, and that may have been a factor as to why they wanted to get away from the historical aspect of it.
I want so much to have historical names and such that my acting partner and I tried desperately to portray the Princess Mary and Charles Brandon this year, but there was nothing doing, they wouldn't have it.
So really, I wasn't trying to stir up trouble or make a huge ranting post out of this subject, I promise, I was actually more in agreement with you than anything, I probably just chose my words incorrectly...it was late and I was really tired when I last posted, so Im sure that was my problem.
So to recap...Im not worried about having H/A costumes, because as everyone knows, its impossible to have those nowadays, well, climacticlly speaking anyway, I wouldn't suppose they are impossible to make...but yeah. I agree that we need the fantasy creatures there to give the fair more magic, but I also think that we need to have historically accurate names for our court members. People know who Henry VIII was and who at least his more famous Queens were, and they constantly ask, so why not give them what they are asking for? However, I accept that the PTB want the fair to be the way it is, so Im really not going to fuss over having a historical name or not, he who has the gold card makes the rules....and that is in no way, me. So until I am rich enough to have my own festival, I am content to be a ficticious character. I cant remember if Ive covered everything...but if I remember anything else, I'll re-post.
xoxox
Quote from: Adriana Rose on June 24, 2008, 12:58:32 PM
On the court dress.. Even the gowns that arent from Nobless ( insert drool line here) cost an arm and a leg!
Most of them yes, but you would be surprised at the craftiness of some of the ladies....the lady in the cream and brown dress? guess what its made of.....old curtians. lol
all of the ones Ive made have been from those old velvet bedspreads from the 70s....*laugh*
if you want good they do if you buy them. Making them not so much but your still going to spend $200 on materials. I know places like Castle Garden Creation is highly recommended in the Garbing part of the forum and they are not horribly costly.
I know My cheapest court dress cost me about $350. it does not fit me very well and I don't like wearing it. Not to mention it is not cotten, but I think Polyester which is BAD in the heat. Cotten breaths and my new dress is all cotten accept for the fur. On opening weekend I did not get over heated. I didn't however drink enough water and was starting to dehydrate. Same thing happened last year in wench wear which still wasn't cheap at least in my eyes it wasn't. I stayed pretty cool in my dress because of my chemise helping hold moisture in. Which is what the people of the desert do. I have formal dresses that are cheaper than my fair garb and still don't fit right.
I fear with Noblesse Oblige that if it was not custom, your going to have to have a seamstress fit it to you to make it fit just perfect. I also say off the rack, they are way to expensive. I'm sorry but if I am going to pay more than $500 for garb, it's going to be custom fit to me.
Just my 1 pence worth
wow where to start
1 let's not bring back the 6 wives of henry all at the same time! I hated that-
If we go more historicly correct with the court than we need to give them something to do- I've been on court and we had great bits- among ourselves. We spent a lot of time playing window dressing (not that there is anything wrong with that) At more historical fairs I have worked at we had our own "shows" and stage time where we would bring in the court issues and do a bit of a history lesson
Also we would have to educate the fair and not just the court- If we have Henry and Anne we can not have a prince edward- The last time I was princess (was it really that long ago??) We had Henry with Anne Boleyn, Princess mary (me) and Edward and Elizabeth in full white face (ummm what??) it was odd
As for the SCA- There is no historically correct police so the SCA gets it's fair share of "ren fair wear" and T-tunics. I have been in the SCA for the last 10 years and I wear elizabethan or 1560ish italian there is no set focus of time I have seen everything from togas to musketeers and everything in between
There is an odd us against them mentality between rennies and the SCA and I have seen it from both sides- I still don't get the issues
ok- again back to the SCA- the range of correctness falls on the person I have seen some amazing sword work by folks who are translating manuels of the time period and using them
we use rattan sticks because we hit full force and with steel you could really hurt someone. we don't hit below the knees because the risk of breaking someones leg is really high! again you don't want to send anyone to the clinic
The sca does not require that you wear 5 layers of wool- sounds more like the civil war fanatics (they have real high standards) All the SCA asks for is an attemt at pre 17th centruy clothing
Quote from: marchaunt on June 24, 2008, 05:10:01 PM
ok- again back to the SCA- the range of correctness falls on the person I have seen some amazing sword work by folks who are translating manuels of the time period and using them
we use rattan sticks because we hit full force and with steel you could really hurt someone. we don't hit below the knees because the risk of breaking someones leg is really high! again you don't want to send anyone to the clinic
That and the fact that all the fighting you see at faire is choreographed and the SCA is not. If you are a fencer (AKA light fighter) you are using a steel sword and are actively stabbing your opponent with it.
And no, I don't get the rennie vs. SCA thing either.
So, the question is- are we HC? (historically correct)
I don't know. I am.
I just heard a commercial on the radio for the Renaissance Festival and they announced that along with Knights, Royalty, food, stage acts, etc., is the historically accurate Demetrius, who always tells the truth.
Interesting SCA note: did you guys know that britan uses SCA as the combatants when training their police in riot control?
Quote from: Hey- Arent You? on June 25, 2008, 09:48:16 AM
Interesting SCA note: did you guys know that britan uses SCA as the combatants when training their police in riot control?
Ah, but in France they choose to use hamsters...
Quote from: Hey- Arent You? on June 25, 2008, 09:48:16 AM
Interesting SCA note: did you guys know that britan uses SCA as the combatants when training their police in riot control?
well they are a bunch of nuts!
Quote from: Hey- Arent You? on June 25, 2008, 09:48:16 AM
Interesting SCA note: did you guys know that britan uses SCA as the combatants when training their police in riot control?
OH. My. God. I totally want to move to Britain and join the SCA now....
To be historically correct, means that we're portraying the era accurately. As far as garb goes, yes we are historically correct, in appearance (Which is really what counts). As far as architecture goes.... it's fairly close. Food, some of it would be, the rest is all the wrong time period.
The question really should be, does it matter if it's Historically Accurate? To a certain level, yes, having appropriate garb is good. Who cares what kind of food thats served so long as its good and no one gets sick off it.
Should everyone be required to take a professional level history course, and then a professional acting course to properly portray whats being attempted? No. Knowing what it's about helps, if thats what you care about.
Quote from: Bahlien on June 25, 2008, 09:45:15 PM
As far as garb goes, yes we are historically correct, in appearance (Which is really what counts).
Emmm- as a costumer who does way to much research that is only partly true- with only a few folks who are anal- I mean as well researched. I believe in the 10 foot rule but we still have some on cast that are way off (but fun and fantasy and cool for their thing- just not HA)
I won't nitpick but at the same time I can not say that the garb as a whole is HA
Quote from: Bahlien on June 25, 2008, 09:45:15 PM
To be historically correct, means that we're portraying the era accurately. As far as garb goes, yes we are historically correct, in appearance (Which is really what counts). As far as architecture goes.... it's fairly close. Food, some of it would be, the rest is all the wrong time period.
The question really should be, does it matter if it's Historically Accurate? To a certain level, yes, having appropriate garb is good. Who cares what kind of food thats served so long as its good and no one gets sick off it.
Should everyone be required to take a professional level history course, and then a professional acting course to properly portray whats being attempted? No. Knowing what it's about helps, if thats what you care about.
For goddess sake that is just too freaking nit picky!
Quote from: marchaunt on June 26, 2008, 01:10:30 AM
Quote from: Bahlien on June 25, 2008, 09:45:15 PM
As far as garb goes, yes we are historically correct, in appearance (Which is really what counts).
Emmm- as a costumer who does way to much research that is only partly true- with only a few folks who are anal- I mean as well researched. I believe in the 10 foot rule but we still have some on cast that are way off (but fun and fantasy and cool for their thing- just not HA)
I won't nitpick but at the same time I can not say that the garb as a whole is HA
I had hoped not to get in on this whole thing but I have to agree with this. I know we only have a few pirates on cast, but those that we have are a few hundred years off of the Golden Age of Piracy, if that in fact is what they're going for. I mean, look at Captain Jack (not a jab at you Capn, just the character), he's supposed to be in the what, mid-1800s? Waaaay off for what we're supposed to be portraying. Then again, I guess maybe that gets into more of the "fantasy" aspect, I'm not sure what it's boundaries are exactly. I read some literary guidelines the other day for a strictly "fantasy" website that said if pirates were the only "fantasy" aspect of your work, it's not fantasy. So I guess it can go either way.
That's my little comment, anyway.
I mean, look at Captain Jack (not a jab at you Capn, just the character), he's supposed to be in the what, mid-1800s? Waaaay off for what we're supposed to be portraying. That's my little comment, anyway.
[/quote]
Actually I believe CapnJack aka Jack Sparrow is from the pirate heyday of about the 1640's to the early 1700's most likely 1670 there abouts. So not so far off only a about 50 to 100 years.
Pirates have been around as long as man has sailed. Queen Elizabeth I had dealings with pirates with Grace O'Malley, Sir Francis Drake and Sir Walter Raligh (sp) Now they were more Privateer than pirates, the Spanish sure called them pirates as they attacked ships and cities in the New World to take it's gold in the name of England. This caused the Spanish to almost go to war with England, and may have been a factor in them seding their fleet to invade. That and Bess taking Mary's head.
By the 1800's Port Royal or part of it, was sitting under the water. A major earthquake sunk part of the city in I believe the 1690's. By the 1800's Steam power was very common amoung sailing vessels especially military. By the Mid 1800's tricorns were out of fashion unless you where in the south of the US as some southern men had tricorns during the American Civil War, but they were not a common thing. Flint locks we also becoming out of use. Cap-n-ball were the common weapons both for pistol and rifle.
So While Jack maybe a wee bit off course, pirates were a part of the Renaissance. But your point is a good one. My one and only issue with pirates at faire... There are to many and not enough wenches, poor, middle class and nobles. Lets have more of those even if they are playton.
As it stands for the playtrons there are a good few that look fabbo but then there are others that really need to cover it up! I have seen a trend of the playtrons wearing less... :o
There are more who are dressing as pirates and a few that are Wenches ect.
Not to mention many of the barbarians wearing even less.
Hey less can be a good thing SOMETIMES. :-\
Quote from: Sir Garath on June 26, 2008, 02:13:12 PM
Hey less can be a good thing SOMETIMES. :-\
Well yes, if it's hotter than heck out.
I for one, don't think I could EVER dress half naked as a barbarian wench or even a pirate one at that. I'm to self concious of my body. I'd look like a female Hanz and Franz
I'm here to PUMP... You up!
As for the pirate thing, Jack is actually pretty wild and fantastical, even for a pirate of the 18th century. Jack's clothing is a mish-mash of styles from 1650-ish to 1790-ish, and I'm fairly sure that no one in the period ever did their hair like that. It's totally impossible to place the Pirates of the Caribbean films in history anyway, as they include places like Port Royal (as mentioned above) which was destroyed in 1692, and Tortuga, which was taken over by the French Navy in (I think) the 1680's. So we've got a pirate (who, if he is from the "Golden Age of Piracy" would have lived between 1680 and 1720 ish) wearing clothes as late period in some cases as the American Revolution walking around in places that were gone by the end of the 17th century. Talk about a mix up. It's kinda' like the Princess Bride: it's not really meant to be set in a specific year in history, just to have the general feel.
Which is precisely what our festival does. :)
Incidentally, I agree with everything Lady DeLaney has posted on the subject. VERY accurate and well thought out!
On the accuracy note, I don't think our festival is really about that. Decencey is one thing (some people really need to learn that less is not always more), but accuracy is entirely another.
I've always said that we should forget this whole "Larkspurshire of England in the year 15-blankety-blank" bullpuckey, and instead play as if our shire were located in one of the realms of Faery, where time flows differently (for those of you confused by my use of the term "Faery," think Narnia). In faery it may still be the renaissance, while in our world it's the Silicone Era. That's why at any given time could have King Arthur, Robin Hood, William Shakespear, The Three Musketeers, and Jack Sparrow all together in the same place. As well as the fairies and unicorns, etc. It also somewhat explains the random Stormtroopers, not to mention Mr. Joe Average in his cargo shorts and baseball cap.
As for personal dedication to historical accuracy, my mantra has always been: be as historical as you want to be. I say this because not everyone finds historical research fun, but there are many who do, and we can all agree that we love the "atmosphere." As long as a person makes an attempt to look "historical-ish" it probably shouldn't be frowned upon too greatly.
Though I should perhaps ammend that statement by saying that I always encourage historical research in costuming. You may find out you like it more than you thought ;)
So there's my two pence. Or make that four.
If I were to choose a form of garb other than my townfolk working class artist.... I would pick something big and bouncy that swings from side to side when I walk, velvety soft feeling and lots of sparkly things all over it!!
Hows that sound?!
But then I always say a Knight is a Knight ... no matter what Galaxy, now or along time ago ;D
Well said and HUZZAH to you CapnJack
Quote from: CapnJack on June 26, 2008, 09:46:28 PM
It's kinda' like the Princess Bride: it's not really meant to be set in a specific year in history, just to have the general feel.
well said.
it's a show. it needs to be just HA enough for the audience to be able to suspend their belief in reality and be absorbed into the mood. pounding to hard on the HA aspect is like going to a movie and repeating "that could never happen in real life".... or going to a disney park and saying "there is no such thing as a 7' tall mouse in pants" it's a show. it is ment to capture and inspire the audience imagination, not to teach history.
if it were ment to be truly HA, we'd call it a reinactment instead of a festival.
~Adam
Quote from: CapnJack on June 26, 2008, 09:46:28 PM
Incidentally, I agree with everything Lady DeLaney has posted on the subject. VERY accurate and well thought out!
BTW I love how you spelled my name. it gives me that sort of "Frenchness" to me. I might as well be french as English, I wear a French Hood. Hum anyway to change my profile with out changing anything else?
Quote from: Hey- Arent You? on June 27, 2008, 10:15:53 AM
if it were ment to be truly HA, we'd call it a reinactment instead of a festival.
Hear, hear!
I think when i t comes to being HA going to the faire its what you feel you will have the most fun as. Cause to be honest it does bring the kid out in some of us.
As for the pirates i do love some of the outfits i see but damn where they truly that bright. I do love my pirate outfit but i also know i have taken stuff from several centurys to make it up. But than i also like to dress down as i came one day as Capt. Jack put it, my cabin boy outfit. With pirates got to remember when looking for how they dress to look at the typical sailor or fisherman of the time. Cause not everyone was a career pirate some where sailors hard on ther luck trying to change it or just a fisherman that had a bad season and trying to make some money for his family to live on.
Lady DeLaney since the kids thought you where the queen have fun with that. A good suggestion is always point them to where the royal pavilian is cause if the queen isn't there they always have some one that can tell them where she is or when she will be back. But play a visiting royal, go to like usa toys pick up something that is cheap and easy to carry and hand it out to them. This will always give the kids a smile.
I know with me i enjoy being stopped for photos or just for a kid to pet my coyote face bag (yes i do get stopped alot for just that). Now on the photos i seem to always be with Blushing so not sure its me or her, cause she is so damn beautiful.
Francisco Paula Portuguese Pirate for hire
Oh yes I did do just that, pointed them to the direction of the pavilion. And I did try to have fun, and will continue to if stopped again.
"Now on the photos i seem to always be with Blushing so not sure its me or her, cause she is so damn beautiful."---That was so adorable Sir Garath. Big brownie points for that :D
I agree with Cap'n Jack. Well said. However, there are other fairs, take TRF for example, they take 8 weeks, the time of our entire run, for rehearsals. They actually have like acting classes, classes to learn the kings language ect. True, they are a considerably larger fair, but that shouldn't matter as far as HA is concerned.
Im not saying that we should in any way have eight weeks of rehearsals, because I would kill someone, and they really arent necessary, as we dont have any scripted acts other than the front gate show and the joust. Even then, its only the king and queen. But, I was just trying to say, that there are some faires out there that do take the time and effort to be more HA than others.
For now however, I am perfectly content with being a fantasy faire. And Cap'n, I truely like the idea of not having the Shire called Larkspurshire of England in 15-blahbitty-blah. I think your idea is brilliant. Its just a shame that probably none of the PTB would care to hear it. :(
Thank you Lady Remi....i wasn't trying for brownie points just stating the truth. Don't get me wrong i'm a good looking guy but most people overlook that when you are as big as me. Now miss blushing i got introduced to her last year by Lady Arndt and Sean Danials. I came back the next weekend asked her out and she found the time for me we went out and i have not regreted it since. She is one of the best things that has happened to me in ages.
Damn on the rehearsels that would drive me nuts and its not to far of a drive already. But even cast some adlib is a good thing but we are all there to have fun.
See you all tomorrow and hang in there.
Francisco Paula Portuguese Pirate for hire