Should faires be BAWDY or not or a mix?
How or are acts rated at different faires for BAWDINESS?
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Personally I think it should be moderately BAWDY, however not explicitly BAWDY unless it is in an adults-only area perhaps.
I am totally opposed to a faire which is child-oriented with very little BAWDINESS.
Regarding rating systems I don't see a point since you can see and hear acts just by walking by or being fairly close to them and it would be near impossible to avoid all BAWDINESS unless all BAWDY acts were in one location of the faire or perhaps only in the morning in one section or in the afternoon in another section.
What do you think?
Regards,
CB
I much prefer bawdy. Heck, if I wanted to see a PC faire, I'd go to Disney! I understand the need for a mix so families with impressionable young 'uns (and the thin-skinned) can attend, too, though. I do think it's a good idea when shows include a notice of adult/mature content.
Iris and Rose of Wild and Thorny always make the announcement of "Adult's Only" and reiterate it especially if they see children.
According to them, very few people take their children out of the pub area.
Those that do usually only after the girls start singing.
I don't have an issue with "family friendly" shows that avoid bawdiness altogether. Indeed, having a family myself I appreciate the choice of taking my younger kids to a show where I don't have to explain things on the way home. Of course, even this is conditional. My kids and I have enjoyed the "Whose Time Is It Anyway?' at the Stronghold Olde English Faire, even though (or maybe because) it involves toilet paper jokes.
That being said, the Renaissance was a pretty bawdy time. Any culture that could produce a Shakespeare or broadsides about "Watkin's Ale" couldn't claim itself to be wholly chaste. To completely overlook this would miss an important element of the times in which many faires are set.
And I think a warning about shows with adult/mature content is completely appropriate. Being moderately thin-skinned myself, I tend to avoid shows with explicit bawdiness, so I appreciate the advance warning.
i've always had the impression that the earlier faires were pretty bawdy times, especially after hours. i don't mind the bawdiness (?) of the faires, but i think if people are going to bring their kids, then they better know what they're getting into.
i'm all for bawdy and even clean. I do feel that if a show is even the slightest bit bawdy they should put a sign or advertise it as such for the parents of young ones. Now you cannot prevent them from coming to a show, but faire warning is fair warning (get it faire, fair lol)
It is up to the parents of the little ones to decied. Maybe even a recommened age limit depending on how bawdy the act is.
Ultimately the faire is a business. As such it needs to appeal to a large audience to keep itself afloat. To that end, I would suggest that a serious percentage of paying customers are families and probably expect family entertainment. I have never seen a TV ad or newspapers article that would somehow imply to me that the faire is a place with naughty or questionable shows. No, it is always marketed in the same vein as the State fair or local carnival. "Come get a turkey leg for dad and a pirate hat for the kids."
Now as a performer I certainly know that dirty/bawdy humor does happen, but I've never seen a show or heard a joke during an act that made me think "Oh my, they should have put up a warning first!" No, most performers seem aware of the line and don't tend to cross it. Moreover, the little dirty jokes/comments are great for keeping the parents entertained while the kids are in awe of the juggler/swordsmen/etc. So I'm all for slipping in some dark humor or whatever in shows, but I wouldn't want or expect to see anything over PG-13, for example. Nor would I expect an entire show to be nothing but tits and cursing.
That said, most faires I go to seem have two shows: the during-faire show and the after-hours show. The after-hours shows I have seen have entailed everything from a dirty joke contest to a wet blouse contest. And personally I think that is a great way to go: a show for the public that is family friendly and an open stage after-hours for the performers and staff.
I think Scarborough has a good mix and they do a good job of telling people which shows are not recommended for children.
Honestly, I don't think Faire would be the same if everything had to be rated G for the kiddos.
There is a reason why the Disney Cruises had to add some adults only areas.
People like some variety and sometimes you just want to sit in a pub, have a pint and enjoy the show.
By definition, bars are not meant for small children, so why would anyone expect a bar show in a Faire
to be geared towards small children?
And then if every show was bawdy, that would get pretty old too.
For those people who are brining in their kids, they need some entertainment too,
just not in the pub.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on July 07, 2008, 03:43:48 PM
I think Scarborough has a good mix and they do a good job of telling people which shows are not recommended for children.
Honestly, I don't think Faire would be the same if everything had to be rated G for the kiddos.
There is a reason why the Disney Cruises had to add some adults only areas.
People like some variety and sometimes you just want to sit in a pub, have a pint and enjoy the show.
By definition, bars are not meant for small children, so why would anyone expect a bar show in a Faire
to be geared towards small children?
And then if every show was bawdy, that would get pretty old too.
For those people who are brining in their kids, they need some entertainment too,
just not in the pub.
I agree that Scarby does a good job. I've also found the performers are happy to tell you if a show is appropriate or not before you take the time to bring the kids.
As a parent, I don't mind the bawdier shows, I'd just like to be warned so I don't show up with my kids.
At my home fair, ORF, Cristophe The Insulter was asked never to return 2 years ago after Kroger, one of the big sponsers, decided he was too bawdy, and that made me mad. His performances were R rated, and only one of them was in a pub, most were in the streets. He would loudly warn everyone in the street that he was going to use adult language before he started, but a few minutes into it people who didn't hear the warning would wander up right about the time he'd be telling his victim that her nether region is so large that it could swallow a barstool, and that's my cleaned up version of it.
All the other shows were, and are, either clean enough for children, or the bawdiness is phrased in a way that it would go over the head of a young child. I miss having the ONE thoroughly adult act.
Quote from: Synikul on July 08, 2008, 12:53:55 AM
At my home fair, ORF, Cristophe The Insulter was asked never to return 2 years ago after Kroger, one of the big sponsers, decided he was too bawdy, and that made me mad. His performances were R rated, and only one of them was in a pub, most were in the streets. He would loudly warn everyone in the street that he was going to use adult language before he started, but a few minutes into it people who didn't hear the warning would wander up right about the time he'd be telling his victim that her nether region is so large that it could swallow a barstool, and that's my cleaned up version of it.
Honestly, as an adult, I wouldn't want to walk up on that either. Why could they not provide him with a venue instead of having him wander the streets?
I like the way MDRF does it. The information booth (right near the gate) has a list of shows deemed "family friendly" so those with small children know exactly which shows will definitely be appropriate for the little'uns. (I believe they're also marked on the website). That and most of the more explicitly naughty shows (like the O'Danny Girls) will take the time to say at the start of their show that they will be saying things you might not want your child to hear. Most of the other shows are sort of in the middle. They've got their moments, but I'm pretty sure it tends to fly over the heads of the kids.
I think a mix is good, because a variety of patrons (and playtrons) should be catered to. However, there should be a warning in the program next to certain performers who do more bawdy material, so people can avoid it if they wish, or see it if they wish. (Personally, I'm in the "avoid" camp, for the most part.)
In other words, I pretty much agree with the previous sentiments that have been made ;)
I like a good balance. Personally, I'm not offended, but as the mother of a 5 year old, I appreciate the warning. I already know what shows to avoid at TRF when I have my pirate with me, but it is smart to post a warning and announce it prior to starting. If people choose to ignore the warning, then it's their own fault if they are offended.
I like the shows that can balance. The ones that have jokes for the adults, and the kids laugh because everyone else is laughing, not cause they get it. Course, my faves Bocca Musica have their bawdy shows specifically marked, and have no compunction about shooeing away teenagers.
I've been to one faire where it felt like the bawdy had been completely removed, and, well, it just didn't feel like faire to me.
Although it is clear that the Faires need families attending, a little naughtiness is fun too. I mean, the corsets and bodices typically worn at the Faire, the ladies that grace my eyes wearing them....Oh, right. Sorry, it's a little early for that.
Families are the ones that spend the most at Faires, typically. More meals, elephant and camel rides, rides on the Seahorse of Doom, the archery area, ect. With the exeption of a few Playtrons who make one or two large purchases at a Faire, families are the main source of income.
I like that acts tell the audience that their act may not be for all, and not for most children. It gives the people a head's up, and there are plenty of areas at most Faires that are clearly oriented for small children, and lots for them to see and do. Missing one or two shows becasue they are a little young for the content should not ruin anyone's day. The only people complaining about an act's content would be someone that did not heed the warning, and have noone to blame but themselves
Christophe the Insulter performs at Bristol, and I have not seen him do a street insult, he saves his insults for the shows, which are announced as to their rating (PG-13 mostly). Craig of Fairington also performs, again mostly PG-13 or less. There is a separate stage for the Adult shows, which is clearly marked as Christophe NC-17 and Beautiful Bawdy Craig. I have seen Christophe multiple times tell parents "Really, I'm not kidding, this is Not going to be family friendly, I strongly encourage you to take your children elsewhere" only to have parents sit there and stare at him as if they don't have any idea who the children belong to.
Myself, I'm not a fan of Christophe the Insulter, that's my personal opinion of the act, the man himself is quite different. It's there for those who want it, and the only thing more hey could do to keep the kids out is to put a bar at the entrance to the tavern that says "If you can walk under this, you can't come in".
Dayna
I think a mix is the way to go.
I attend faire both with and without Chicklette, my 3 year old daughter, so we see a bit of everything. We watch shows like The Limey Birds together and she adores them (Bunny especially) but she doesn't get the adult themed humor and it's not so in-your-face as to be offensive.
St. Louis started rating acts this year on their show schedule and the Limeys were PG-13. Actually, I think they were the only show rated at all. *chuckle* If we did have something rated R, depending on what the material was, I'd have no problem waiting till I was minuse child to see the show.
There are shows I'm dying to see like Iris-n-Rose and Christoph and depending on how much attention Chicklette is paying I may or may not be able to to sit through a show with her. Sometimes rocks and dirt are just WAY more important than what's on the stage and if that's the case she'll not hear what's being said.
Quote from: unilady on July 08, 2008, 11:56:55 AM
Christophe the Insulter performs at Bristol, and I have not seen him do a street insult, he saves his insults for the shows, which are announced as to their rating (PG-13 mostly). Craig of Fairington also performs, again mostly PG-13 or less. There is a separate stage for the Adult shows, which is clearly marked as Christophe NC-17 and Beautiful Bawdy Craig. I have seen Christophe multiple times tell parents "Really, I'm not kidding, this is Not going to be family friendly, I strongly encourage you to take your children elsewhere" only to have parents sit there and stare at him as if they don't have any idea who the children belong to.
Myself, I'm not a fan of Christophe the Insulter, that's my personal opinion of the act, the man himself is quite different. It's there for those who want it, and the only thing more hey could do to keep the kids out is to put a bar at the entrance to the tavern that says "If you can walk under this, you can't come in".
Dayna
This is exactly how I feel. I dislike the act, but appreciate the fact that he does give a very clear warning at the beginning of his show. It would probably be better if Bristol had him situated inside, even for his PG-13 act, but it's not like I'm going to complain. The only reason I dislike it is because yeah, he's funny, but the same kind of "nether regions" jokes that entertaining? for 45 minutes?
I like a mix myself...with my personal preference of shows that I watch being towards the bawdy side...but as my nephews get older I'll be visiting a lot more kid-friendly shows I'm sure! I do like the disclamer my home faire gives at the pub sing (the bawdiest part of the faire) after warning that the show WILL be dirty and NOT for children..."Hey, if your kids get the jokes, hell, it aint OUR fault!"
Quote from: Amyj on July 08, 2008, 05:24:34 PM
"Hey, if your kids get the jokes, hell, it aint OUR fault!"
Oh yea... I forgot about that! lol
Quote from: Amyj on July 08, 2008, 05:24:34 PM
"Hey, if your kids get the jokes, hell, it aint OUR fault!"
Blame dad!
Or cable.
Or public schooling.
The shows don't have to be too bawdy... I'm plenty bawdy for the whole Faire
Molden is plenty bawdy enough for two Faires...
I enjoy bawdy! Adults need entertaining too. I have no rennlets to worry about. I agree- Scarby and TRf have a good mix.
I vote for bawdy!! The best kind of faire humour is the kind the adults get a laugh out of while the kids are left wondering what's so funny.
BAWDY.. 'nuff said.
Bawdy!
besides, mosty, or all of the acts at MNRF announce when they are perfomring a more adult act. My kids aren't old enough to get the jokes, anyway. If something did offend me, I'd simply leave!
We sat at a stage today shared by a few acts including Iris & Rose, who were following the act we saw. As we're getting up, one of them comes out from behind the stage & starts saying 'Remove your children! You do not want them here!' (in general, not to us specifically). I told her we knew about their act & we would be leaving with our children & she thanked us!
I wish I had thought to ask her how many parents ignore her & then do a mad dash when the first song starts!
I like a mix of both, gives people a good variety of entertainment regardless of age. I'm sure it's best for the business end of faire too. Maybe I've just never been in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I've never seen an act so over the top that I didn't want my kids to see it. It doesn't matter as much now that they're teens anyway. Besides, most of the stuff kids see on tv, and a lot of music lyrics-both which are meant to be shocking and in you're face, are far worse than the fun bawdiness at faire.
I like a mix of things, while I don't have any children of my own, I do tag around with my bf's 6 year old little sister and will likely have my own 9 year old little sister in tow sometime this season.
I wait until I don't have the little ones when i can tell it's going to be a bawdy show, of course I believe that children dont' really belong in a bar/pub anyways, so... I do get a little shocked when some people leave their kids in for some of the acts at faire, especially after the preformers give them good and proper warning.
Now I do go to some of the kids shows because there is a good bit of double entendres and other such amusement for adults, because lets face it, if barney had more stuff like that we'd be more likely to watch it, some kids movies do have such jokes, although some of them like the cat in the hat with mike meyers took it a bit to the extreme...
But anyways, I believe that faire should be a mixture of bawdy and not so that it's inviting for the faint of heart and the young at heart (and body!) but that the older kids still have a place to play. And there are certain areas just for adults (sort of) the pubs, You don't often see too many acts geared specifically towards children in the pubs....
I think a mix is a good thing and can even be segregated up to point (i'm not talking about a 20ft x 20ft beer garden... thats just cramped and lame). I think there can be an arm of the faire layout that declairs "beyond this point, there be raunchy songs, beer and sexual innuendo". There is an obvious market for that and many of the adult attendees want it.
The Poxy Boggards at the So Cal faire has a NC-17 sign posted in front of their stage (which is set at the very back of the faire) and they do mean NC-17. I have seen a father starting to sit down on a hay bale with his two very young sons in the middle of a raunchy song and without missing a beat one of the actors picked up the NC-17 sign, held it high, vigorously shaking his head "noooo! you dont want to be here" to the father. The dad smiled, nodded to the singers and promptly left.
Quote from: unilady on July 08, 2008, 11:56:55 AM
I have seen Christophe multiple times tell parents "Really, I'm not kidding, this is Not going to be family friendly, I strongly encourage you to take your children elsewhere" only to have parents sit there and stare at him as if they don't have any idea who the children belong to.
I saw the same thing at the White Hart Tavern the year Christophe was at MDRF. A couple came in with their toddlers, waded through the crowd of drunks, and plopped down at the picnic tables, blissfully unaware of the show and clearly coming in only for the seating. Shortly thereafter, Christophe started his first ode, entitled "Your Balls".
Given that it took them a good five minutes to get everybody situated, it was hilarious to see the parents snatch up their kids and belongings and go flying out of the place in a matter of seconds - the kids were practically flapping behind them like a couple of pennants.
I'm sitting in camp one night, and a performer (Only using this term because I honestly do NOT remember her name as this was a few years ago.. I know her on sight though), comes in to say hello and share an adult beverage. She sees my daughter sitting there, the look on her face is pure "OMG, You are at all my shows", My daughter gets up and comes over gives me a hug and says "Good Night Dad", and the perfomer breaths again... She finally realized that since this child is MINE, her sitting at their shows is not so bad.. I smile and tell her "Well, at least I know where to find her at the times your show is on now don't I"?
It should me a mix. Let's be honest, nothing will be said at faire that kids will not hear at school and for some the jjokes go over their heads. One of the best systems I have seen is at the Carolina where in the programs acts that might be questionable are designated LC for loose cannon and it also states that anything goes mainly PG13. In addition, stages have signs that read "this show is rated" with hooks where the rating placard can be hung. That is where we see the Tortugas whoc an take advantage of the system and even change the rating for the last show to R or further...
One time an acquantance I knew asked me what "pg-13" meant at Bristol, and could she bring her daughter. I remember looking at her and replying "pg-13 here means 'R'"
For me definately mixed. That way, the families and other people who are not interested in the bawdy can still attend and find entertainment. To be honest, there are days myself, where I just want to hear the pretty music or it's equivalent. Most days tho' I have to admit I am usually one of the first to laugh at an off color comment at a performance- or an off color performance.
Most fairs seem to try to keep the bawdy in the pub, but, as it has been pointed out, people usually stare clueless at the performer(s).
As a Board member for a small Faire myself, I feel that a mix for all ages and levels of sophistication is all good. One of our performing groups, The Cherry Tarts, gives a rating and disclaimer,"If your kids don't know where they come from, they will after our show!" They do a little bit of veiled humor to give parents time to remove their kids. Hey-if the kids understood it, it is not the performers' faults, anyway. There are several kid-friendly acts and activities at our Faire for young ones, so there are options out there. And anyway, the really bawdy stuff usually takes place as the day wanes, or is in the Tavern where smalls are discouraged. It's every one for themselves after-hours so we have a cerfew of 9pm for our on-site participants' children so they have limited exposure to more bawdy entertainments after Faire closes to the public for the day.
As a stage show owner, my motto is "I will not willingly 'educate' anyone under the age of 18." My troupe has a self imposed rating of PG-13 due to the double entendre that runs amuck in the majority of our shows. That being said, we do have PG-G shows that we throw out during a faire day because we all like a lil' good clean humor.
We do display our "disclaimer banner" at the start of our "Pyrate Boot Camp" show and do inform the audience that if anyone under the age of 18 gets the jokes, "Don't blame us! As we've just met you all." It gives the parents and children a chance to leave the audience without any ruffled feathers. 'Course, you cannot please everyone 100% of the time - there will always be someone who is offended (nothing like an irate mother who loudly declaims "how can you show off your ... your... thingies!" while pointing to bodiced boosoms. Bless the Puritans, LOL)
The rare times when I get to attend faire as a playtron, I appreciate the mixture of PG-G and PG- Not G. I do like Christophe the Insulter and love Irish & Rose, Puke & Snot. By the same token, I dearly love the Gypsy Bard in the children's realm at KCRF. So AYE, a mixture of ratings says I! A solid "diet" of one type of show makes for a very boring day at faire.
My tuppence.
Emerald
Quote from: Cobaltblu on July 07, 2008, 12:51:02 PM
Should faires be BAWDY or not or a mix?
it should be bawdy for the adults anf fun for the kids as well
I say go for BAWDY.....let the childs wonder what we are al laughing about...... ;)
One thing I've noticed is that faire management seems to be a lot more "uptight" about potentially offensive material than the patrons. My act is only "faire bawdy", meaning that the naughty bits are all double entendre and innuendo. Still, you'd think I was giving an illustrated presentation of penetrative sex acts based on some of the scrutiny I've received over the years. I finally quit worrying about it when I sang a song referencing various private parts and sex acts in terms of classic Irish imagery (ending with an altar boy reference) to a group of Mormons and a father with his seven year old son (whom I took the precaution to warn before I began the song). Everybody laughed, and nobody complained a bit. Later that day I sang Johnny Came Home Headless and the Irish Ballad to a mother and her four year old and six year old girls, and the girls yelled "Sing another one!" each time I ended. Honestly, the songs people have taken the most offense to involve unflattering references to the Irish or Scots, not risquè humor.
Faire without bawdy is BORING! Now, The Brigands is mildy bawdy, actually a lot more violent then bawdy, since a good pirate song is either about drinking, women or dying in some horrible fashion.
BUT, we do a joint "Bawdy Show" when we are at the same faire as the Bawdy Buccaneers ( friends of ours), that is a last show of the day deal, and it is no holds barred X rated .
We always announce several time that it starts out at X and decends from there.
We do one tune that almost got us kicked out of the Connecticut Renaisannce Faire. Twice!
Now, the owner makes SURE he is at that show, arms crossed, and either nodding yes or no, to each verse. We do another one called "The Period Song" for those who claim we dont do any period music ( we actually do) that has a line that goes ".. just tastes like some old rusty coins", so you get an idea.
That show is one of the best attended ones , every weekend and every year we have been there. Usualy SRO. So I deduce that Bawdy does have a place at faire!
I prefer the Bawdy myself, but I understand that there needs to be stuff for the younger viewers.
Christophe was brought up earlier, and he is at TRF as well. I wish that they would find a new location to put him there - he is in the middle of the Greek area and anybody getting Greek food must ....listen to.... his show or plan trips to avoid when he is on stage, which may not be convenient. As I am not exactly a fan, this is kind of annoying. When I take young family members, it is a lot more than annoying.
Sound and Fury plays on a different stage at TRF - where people have an option of hearing/ watching or not. They always warn people - especially with kids. Invariably, it isn't until the show starts that somebody will decide that the kids shouldn't actually be there. I tend to find this disturbing, because if anybody has ever seen the warnings that they give, it starts off with "take your kids away", goes into male body parts, dirty sex jokes, and then gets pretty bad -- and people stay through all of this with their kids. From what I understand, they are getting new "NC 17" signs for next year (at their own request - changing from PG 13).
I realize this is an old topic, but I just got around to reading it.
Personally I'm in favor of a mix of entertainment at Faires, from PG through bawdy. I'd not even object to acts close to XXX, within legal limits, provided it is segregated and Ids checked at the door. With one exception/one time, all of the adult oriented acts I've seen have placards, make announcements, and even actually shoo youngsters out. Families get to make the choice. (I saw one instance at TRF with the Insulter who was sprung on an audience with kids.)
While some faire-goers would prefer adults only, families with children do attend faire. Like it or not, Faire is a business now and that means getting in as many people as they can.
Perhaps someone will find a way to make an adult only faire profitable. Or it could be a member only venue, like a country club. Until then, we're stuck with both ends of the spectrum.
Polly
never a bad idea to turn over the topsoil, Polly...
I personally think that people in this country are a bit stiff-necked about sex—Puritanical is probably a good word. If parents would be less worried about how much their kids know about sex, and more worried about how they handle said knowledge, we would all be better off. As my son grew up, I was much more concerned with TV/movie violence than I was with him seeing a naked body. But that's just my take on it.
Having said that, it is simple courtesy to let an audience know that there may be some blue content in the show, and as others have pointed out, if the parents ignore the warning, then it's their own fault.
From what I have seen at Scarborough, the most suggestive acts have been on the northernmost stages. I think that's a fair way of providing a reasonable amount of segregation for those acts so that parents can avoid the areas, if they so choose.
I think not bawdy. It takes more creativity to make people laugh & keep them entertained when the material is clean. Good, clean comedy reminds me of a lot of the t.v. shows of the 70's & 80's.
It does seem that in the last 2 years that there are a lot fewer bawdy acts. I don't know if that is because of protests or the economy.
A mix would be fine with me. Though I dont get offended by bawdy.
Considering that the adults are the ones who are footing the bill to attend the faire, having some entertainment that is targeted to them is really the only smart thing to do. Someone said several posts back that if they wanted a G-rated faire, they'd go to Disney World.
Ratings wouldn't be a bad idea, but as we've all seen, some parents are dumber than a bag of rocks and don't pay any heed to warnings. It's up to them to deal with their stupidity.