Here is the place to chat about all those wonderful recipes... and ones that might not have been so wonderful.
- Mag
http://www.madisonherbsociety.org/pdfs/Cordial_Article_MHS_Herb_Fair_111007.pdf
This is pretty good reading for the beginner.
I want to specifically stress that distilled water is important.
Organic material in your tap water can affect the flavor. Sometimes this is the cause of that 'cough syrup' taste in sweet cordials.
What about filtered water?
Quote from: Hoowil on May 15, 2008, 03:41:08 PM
What about filtered water?
Filtered water have a lot less of chemicals and organic material than tap water, but not everything will be removed.
If you just have an objection to distilled water, by all means, filtered is better than straight tap water.
Quote from: DonaCatalina on May 15, 2008, 03:46:27 PM
Quote from: Hoowil on May 15, 2008, 03:41:08 PM
What about filtered water?
Filtered water have a lot less of chemicals and organic material than tap water, but not everything will be removed.
If you just have an objection to distilled water, by all means, filtered is better than straight tap water.
Just trying to keep cost and material storage space to a minimum.
My first batch of mead was bottled on the 5th. My second, made with fresh strawberries and vanilla bean, is under way. So far so good.
Using plant material for flavoring is the best way to get a good rich flavor that doesn't taste fake, i.e. blackberries, vanilla beans, straberries, etc.
But you do need to make sure that you strain out the plant material very carefully.
As in red wine making, the stems, skins and seeds are left in for a short time to add.... well oomph to the flavor. But these are filtered out before the last fermenting and setting stage.
Any plant debris left in your making will eventually decompose and leave a very bitter taste behind.
I used alternating coffee filters with cheese cloth.
Does it sound like I'm lecturing? ::) Sorry, I get in that mode sometimes.
I took about two pounds of strawberries, and pureed them, boiled them in half gallon water, then strained out most the pulp with a fine seive. I'll skim it and filter when I rack and prepare to clear. The vanilla was floated in a soak bag, and pulled after a week of brewing.
On a different note, has anyone experimented with using brown sugar to raise the SG levels instead of white sugar? I figure since rum is made from molasses, that it shouldn't be a problem. I actually used it for about half of my sugar in my first batch. Just wondering if anyone else has tries this, and what they thought of it.
Ok i know this isn't like what your talking about but, i bought one of them mr beer kits.. lol, well it worked really good for me and one of the kit 3 different beers to make called for brown sugar, and i like it way more then with white sugar, but with the brown, it took about 4 days longer for it to clear.
I got the kit to see if i liked it before i spent a lot of money on this and that, i loved doing it and it was fun. I knwo many don't like mr beer kits tho, but for me it was fun and cheap too.
thanks
Moira
Moira:
Wow... You are the very first person I have ever heard that had a good experience with a "Mr. Beer" kit. Usually it's a horror story of epic proportions.
I personally have never tried using Brown Sugar inplace of white. I knew a guy who used "unrefined" or the natural sugar like you get in the little brown packets at Starbucks. From what I remember him telling me it didn't make a whole lot of difference to anything.
I'm curious what the end result would be with an all brown sugar mixture - wine or beer. If it works like Moira Mr. Beer, or if there are other interactions. If someone tries it let us know how it goes.
I'm doing small batches (2 to 2.5 gal), just to play around with and experiment so as to learn the process. I've enough honey to do two more of such batches, and I think I'll be starting clearing this batch soon. I'll give a straight brown sugar batch a try, but at this point I have no standard white sugar brew to compare it with.
Aside from the idea being just plain blasphemous, I wonder about corn syrup too. Hey, it's sugar isn't it?
I know my first batch, with the half brown, using a chemical clearing agent that said '12 to 48 hours to crystal clear' took about a day and a half to clear.
Quote from: Magister on May 17, 2008, 05:43:42 PM
Moira:
Wow... You are the very first person I have ever heard that had a good experience with a "Mr. Beer" kit. Usually it's a horror story of epic proportions.
I personally have never tried using Brown Sugar inplace of white. I knew a guy who used "unrefined" or the natural sugar like you get in the little brown packets at Starbucks. From what I remember him telling me it didn't make a whole lot of difference to anything.
I'm curious what the end result would be with an all brown sugar mixture - wine or beer. If it works like Moira Mr. Beer, or if there are other interactions. If someone tries it let us know how it goes.
I know, everyone i spoke to or talked about Mr Beer all said the same bad stuff.. But of course it was after i bought the kit that i found all this out. But i gave it a shot, and i wasn't bad at all.. but there are diff kinds of kits too and types of beer as well.. when i got the kit, i also picked out a 3 pack of diff types of beer, i haven't used the mix that came with the big kit yet, so maybe i found a good beer kit? Just made 2 batches with extra bottles, and the replacement kits.
i dunno but i do know your right, everyone saids its bad..
This is the one and only time i ever made beer, but i don't really call it making when all i did was open packages and dumping it in.. But i did like the sweet ale from the brown sugar..
I didn't even know that sugar is what give it bubbles lol.. foam/head.. i do know the 2 ways to make the foam now tho..
If i can figure out a way to post pics here, i can take some pics of the kit and bottle and one beer poured into a glass so you can see.
Question: anyone have an opinion on the lever/spring lidded bottles? the ons with the ceramic top, rubber gasket, and such. Are they good for beer? Wine? Mead? Cider?
Question #2: Anyone figure out a good/easy way to clean syphone hose? I've been rinsing the thing thouroughly with hot soapy water, ans sanatizing between uses, but would like to give it a deeper cleaning.
Anyone able to point me towards a good hard cider recipe? There's a group of apple growers about 50 miles from here that usually start selling pressed juice/cider around september, not to mention dozens of varieties of apples and other yummies. I figure do a couple more small batches of mead over the summer, while I check on cider making.
Then all I'll need is help drinking ;)
Calling all makers of Cordials, Liqueurs, and Lokis, Lokii .. hmm anyways.
I have recently found myself in the possession of a moderate amount of replenishable grain alcohol. Think a strong vodka or Everclear. I would like to try my hand at making various liquors from it. I'm done the, "soak fruit in sugar, then soak sugary fruit in alcohol" version.. but am wondering if people have had good success with other recipes.
Anyone out there have any suggestions?
Well, I am about to embark on my home brewing in about a week, for the first time. Beer and mead.
But, I read that their are packets of nutrients for the yeast to speed up the process in mead, even ones made form broken yeast cells (so that technically, you are still only using water, yeast and honey. I was wondering if anyone has used these, and if it had any effect on taste.
I had a friend try this. Some of his batches came out like perfectly normal mead but some came out with a drier champagne like mouth and taste.
You might experiment with a small batch and see what results you get.
cool!
So where is a good place to order honey from (clover and alfalfa)?
Well, the first batch of mead and beer are both in the fermenters! I caved and just bought honey at the grocery store, and used a dry meade additive pack that claims to help acidity and provide nutrients.
The beer I am making is a wheat beer (from extracts), and it smelt pretty good in the wort.
Wish me luck!
Kilian:
Good luck! Let us know how the additive in the meade works for you.
All:
I asked about making cordials / loki the other day. While messing around on the web I ran across this site. It seems to be a virtual encyclopedia of recipes. The guy seems to have done his homework!
You can find the site here: http://www.guntheranderson.com/liqueurs.htm
Also... this is just my opinion... but.. I know ALOT of people are have asked for "Loki" recipes. I've come to the conclusion (just my opinion) that "Loki" is simply a Renn-community name for cordials. It is made the same way in almost all respects. So... for all of you asking, "How do I make Loki"... I'd suggest looking up how to make cordials and find recipes that sound good. ;)
Quote from: Captain Kilian on June 22, 2008, 08:31:29 PM
Well, the first batch of mead and beer are both in the fermenters! I caved and just bought honey at the grocery store, and used a dry meade additive pack that claims to help acidity and provide nutrients.Wish me luck!
Try Costco. 5lb jug of honey runs about $10, a good deal cheaper than the stuff at the store. Its definitely processed, but hey, its cheap and good for practice.
Quote from: Magister on June 22, 2008, 09:18:02 PM
You can find the site here: http://www.guntheranderson.com/liqueurs.htm
Well, whatdayaknow! That book he's talking about....Homemade Liqueurs....it's been sitting on my shelf for at least a dozen years, just waiting for me to find the time to pull it out and get started. LOL!
Ok, I have cider brewing that has already gone a little drier than I want, is there in fact any safe way to stop the fermentation? Or do I have to re-sweeten after it brews out? I've already tried potasium sorbate, but I guess that doesn't kill the yeast once active, just keeps it from multiplying and becoming re-active after sweetening. That's some info that would have been nice to know earlier :P.
Also, anyone try using the lever locked, gasket lidded bottles? How well do they hold up under pressure? I've thought about adding more sugar to the cider to sweeten it up, then bottling it into those bottles (as I just gat a bunch for free, gotta love craigslist ;) ). Just want to be sure they won't go boom. Alas, that would also leave no time for clearing before bottling, so a nice heavy sediment layer might result :(. Now, am I right in thinking that the CO2 retension will suffocate the yeast? Or am I totally miss-remembering my brew info from way back when, when I ruined many a batch of beer?
Any help would be most appriciated, and the sooner the better, as the stuff is bubbling away pretty good, and already has a little more bite that I had anticipated.
You can stop the fermentation process by dropping the temperature below 62 degrees.
It sounds like your fermentation may have been a little 'hot' to begin with.
You can also stop fermentation by using a "yeast killer", or stabilizer such as Potassium Sorbate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_sorbate
"Also known affectionately as "wine stabilizer", potassium sorbate produces sorbic acid when added to wine. It serves two purposes. When active fermentation has ceased and the wine is racked for the final time after clearing, potassium sorbate will render any surviving yeast incapable of multiplying. Yeast living at that moment can continue fermenting any residual sugar into CO2 and alcohol, but when they die no new yeast will be present to cause future fermentation. When a wine is sweetened before bottling, potassium sorbate is used to prevent refermentation when used in conjunction with potassium metabisulfite. It is primarily used with sweet wines, sparkling wines, and some hard ciders but may be added to table wines which exhibit difficulty in maintaining clarity after fining."
You can buy it for cheap at any home brew or wine making store. Obviously online as well.
I've tried the potasium sorbate. In 36 hours I've gone from a buble every 2-3 seconds to one ever 30 seconds or so, so its definitely slowing down, but I had hoped to stop it where it was. It took five days brewing to reach a point I was happy with, not to strong, still with a good apple flavor, but a noticable kick. So it fermented fast, and while I haven't tried it in the last 24 hours or so, I worry with the speed of the process that it'll be much drier and stronger than I had wanted by the time its stopped.
On the bright side, I found that glass gallon jugs like you can sometimes get juice in fit my airlock just about perfectly, so I've got a couple gallon 'carbouys'. This experiment is only a gallon, so if I can't save it by resweetening after it does stop I can chalk it up as a learning process. I'd rather not, but if it be, then it be.
Hoowil:
Unfortunately, as the article explains, the Potassium Sorbate doesn't kill the active yeast cells. It just stops it from reproducing. So... anything thats still kicking will continue to convert the sugars to ethyl-alcohol.
The suggestion to drastically reduce the temperature of the batch is also a good one. Bringing the liquid temperature below 7C / 45F should kill any of the still active yeasts. Different types of wine yeasts have different tolerance ranges. For instance Red Star Premier Cuvee yeast can withstand temperatures as low as 45F.
Also... as the alcohol increases in the wine or mash the tolerance temperature decreases. For example at 14% alcohol the temperature can change by as much as 8 degrees.
You can find some of the tolerance temperatures on the different yeast descriptions here: http://www.leeners.com/wineeast.html
Quote from: Magister on June 24, 2008, 11:05:32 PM
For instance Red Star Premier Cuvee yeast can withstand temperatures as low as 45F.
Hmm, that happens to be the exact yeast I used.
I just tasted the stuff, and I wish it had kept more apple flavor, and a little more sweetness, but its not bad. I'll try to chill it tonight and sweeten it tomorrow. Good thing I have a nice cold fridge. Now I better be able to fit it in there :)
I think I am going to try and find a Texas (local) bee farmer, see if I can buy honey directly from them, or get info on where to get their goods. Many Mead recipes call for alfalfa honey, which just doesn't seem to be available at the stores. Has anyone else ever had luck with such direct purchase attempts?
Kilian:
I think many of us have bought directly from Apiaries, or at least the farmer who hauled their stuff to the market. You can usually work out good deals with them... especially if you tell them you are making meade. I know a few that will cut you a deal if you bring them back a bottle or two. I personally use a local seller here in Orlando... for local bee pollen and honey.
The trick is usually finding them in the first place. You can sometimes find them under "beekeeper" or "apiary" in the phone book. However, I would suggest contacting your local chapter of the Texas Beekeepers Association.
You can find more information here: http://www.texasbeekeepers.org
Also a few Texas places I found (No clue if they are any good):
Tule Creek Apiary: 7917 County Rd N Tulia, TX 79088-6210 Phone: (806) 668-4414
Saul Creek Apiary: PO Box 928 Seguin TX, 78155 - http://www.saulcreekapiary.com
Good luck... but you shouldn't have any problems. Texas is one state that has no shortage of apiarists.
One side note.. raw honey.. or unprocessed honey like what you will typically get directly from the farmer does require considerable more work skimming off the debris in the honey (dirt, sticks, leaves, bee parts). The store bought stuff is considerably cleaner as it's obviously been processed before it gets to the store shelf. Be prepared to boil the honey in water for at least 45 minutes to an hour skimming the top with a strainer as the stuff bubbles up. Tedious yes... but well worth the added flavor of using it in my opinion.
Yeah, since I used 2 lbs of raw wildflower honey, I did a lot of skimming, but I only boiled it for 15 min or so...(it was the compromise suggested in charlie papazian's book). Waiting is killing me on the mead, as I will not know if I've done well for months!
Any suggestions on how to not go insane over that bit? LOL
I make myself a little compromise on the waiting: Anything that doesn't make a full bottle, I drink. :D Its not quite the aged finished product, but hey, its yummy. Also, I'm trying to wait at least six months to start drinking, but there are people who don't wait nearly that long. Also, if you don't drink too fast, do one batch immediately after the first, slowly drink the first over the time it takes for the second to age, and there you go.
oh man, this is going to hurt some of you...apologies... Incomming idiot questions! :-\
I wasn't aware that I could taste my mead until well after the racking, but I've seen posts that seem to have done just that. So now that I've stowed away that little gem of info, here is my question. When is the best time to taste your mead to get a good idea of what the end result will taste like? During full bubble action, or after it's calmed down a bit... (btw, I've NEVER gotten alot of bubble action in my mead (only 2 batches so far), never under 13 seconds a bubble. Is that normal?) And if I do decide to sweeten it, are there any do's and definately don'ts I should know so I don't sabotage it?
My cider I was tasting daily. The meads I tasted every couple days. If you get the fermentation to stop, the sweetness level shouldn't change, so it'll give you idea of what the finished flavor will be. Also, tasting if you do spice or vanilla soaks will let you know when to pull the packet out so it doesn't get too strong.
My big brewing buckets have spigots, so pouring a little to taste was easy. The gallon jugs put my liquid level within reach of a straw thru the airlock bung (probably not the cleanest way, but super easy). I'd say don't pour what you don't drink back in, cause it might be contaminated.
As for sweetening, go slow. You can always sweeten more, but if you go too far, thats that. Also, use something like the pot sorbate first, so it doesn't start fermenting again.
I haven't had it come up, but I would think sweetening after clearing and racking might be a good idea, so that stirring doesn't mix it all back up.
Two batches of mead, and they bubbled slow, probably every 10-15 seconds, the cider went absolutelt crazy, but that may be because the limited air space, or warmer brewing conditions, not entirely sure. I might be wrong, but I figure if it bubbling, it working, so who cares how fast? Slow or fast can be caused by ph levels, and other factors, some of which can be altered, but if its working, just let nature take its course.
Merry:
Let me see if I can try to answer some of your questions:
1. When is the best time to taste your mead to get a good idea of what the end result will taste like?
Best time? I don't know if there is a 'best time'. However, there are a few things you can look for when trying to determine how 'sweet' or 'dry' your end product will be. First is it's specific gravity. If you don't have a hydrometer, I'd suggest getting one. They are around 16 bucks (usually less) at most brewing stores. They measure the amount of dissolved sugars in your wash (meade). There are accepted ranges for sweetness based on the reading. For example, if you start your meade at 1.1 you could expect to want to stop it around 1.06 - 1.04 - It counts down as water is 1.0. People who like really dry meade can let it go even below 1.0 (the alcohol allows for readings below 1.0).
As for just tasting... When you rack it (or thinking of racking it) to your carboy from the fermentation bucket you can always swish some around in your mouth (Best not to swallow as it will still contain things you want to clear out). This would give you an idea of where the batch is. Remember it will be rough. The product hasn't had time to age or settle. It won't be a true representation of the final flavor... but should help give you an idea of the "sweetness" though.
2. I've NEVER gotten alot of bubble action in my mead (only 2 batches so far), never under 13 seconds a bubble. Is that normal?
Yes.. and No. The speed at which the yeast works in your wash is determined by several factors. The amount of yeast added to the mixture, the "freshness" of the yeast, type of yeast (turbo, cuvee, bread, etc.), pH of mixture, and the temperature of the room the bucket is in.
In general making several assumptions, if you are using quality wine yeast - say Red Star Premier Cuvee, and it's a fresh packet, you have enough sugar and nutrients for the yeast, and the pH is acceptable. The variable you can easily control is the room temperature. The difference in fermentation time from a room kept at 72 degrees F to one at 80 degrees F could be as much as two weeks! Remember if the bucket is left in direct sunlight that will also kill of yeast cells (from the heat) and slow down fermentation.
Research the type of yeast you plan to use, and understand it's optimal conditions. Then try to provide that as best as possible in your situation. You should get bubbles at least every 2 - 3 seconds at the peak of fermentation.
3. I do decide to sweeten it, are there any do's and definately don'ts I should know?
Read the previous posts about making sure the yeast is not reproducing. This can be accomplished by either killing the yeast, or the addition of a chemical such as Potassium Sorbate. Otherwise, you will have the possibility of turning your meade in to sparkling meade... not to mention blowing all the corks out of your bottles. Adding sugar to the finished product with active yeast prior to bottling is called priming... it is part of what causes beer, and champagne to "bubble".
Otherwise... it's a matter of taste. Just be careful not to add too much sugar.. otherwise you might have some that can not be dissolved in the liquid and will form a layer on the bottle of the bottles. As they say in basic chemistry... a solvent can only "hold" so much based on it's molecules.
Hope all that helps a little.... don't hesitate to post if you have any other questions.
Does anyone have access to EverClear? I went looking for some today only to find out that it has been banned in PA and OH.
Anne:
Most states still allow the sale of it. However, some states (10 and counting) such as Florida, where I am, only allow the sale of a "reduced" alcohol version.
I did some checking, and it looks like the reduced alcohol version is legal in Pennsylvania, while the 191 proof is not. Normally Everclear is a 191 proof.. or 95% alcohol - the greatest amount you can get from a distilled liquor. However, there is the 151 proof version that is obviously less (75.5%) that was created to skirt the laws against the higher alcohol version. This version should be available in both PA and OH if you can find it. If you can find a knowledgeable person at your liquor store you may be able to get them to order it from their distributor for you.
Also depending on your states import laws you may be able to purchase it online and have it shipped to you. However, from what I can tell PA has very restrictive import laws... so I doubt in all reality this would be an option.
Here are some links for additional information:
http://hubpages.com/hub/Everclear_alternatives_and_highly_distilled_grain_alcohol
http://www.bevmo.com/productinfo.asp?area=home&seref=froogle&pf_id=00000012007
http://www.drinksite.com/product.php?prod_id=1569
http://www.badgerwest.com/everclear.shtml
http://www.internetwines.com/pa25994.html
Ok, turns out I straight up screwed the pouch when it came to hydrometer readings (But hey, I'm new!). So, having all my reading be worthless, is there another way to determine the alcohol content of beer and mead, once the product is done?
Kilian:
The answer is a yes.. but I don't think you want to.
There are specialized pieces of equipment you can purchase that would do this for you. One example is this one:
http://www.misco.com/products/PA203-128-129-194-195-196.html
The accuracy and usefulness of these devices is debated.
In commercial senses, a portion of the final product is distilled, and the resulting volume of alcohol measured. This would give a more accurate measure of the percent alcohol by volume. This is used for import and licensing concerns.
The easiest way obviously is to measure it before it ferments, and again afterwards. However, since this is not a real option then I'd suggest you just taste it, and hope you like it. ;)
Good Luck!
If you know the alcohol tollerance of the yeast used, and let it brew itself out, you can get a close guess. But I agree, if you like it, who cares?
Okay, the cider has been bottled for a couple weeks, hopefully it'll be okay. After the two day chilling, and Pot Sorbate dosage, the blasted thing started bubbling as soon as it returned to room temperature, so I bottled it, figuring it'll just be bubbly. I'm planning on openning the first bottle this week to see if its worth keeping, worth drinking, or drain-fodder.
Now, I've been thinking about doind a blackberry mead. I've got fresh berries from the yard, so timing isn't too much an issue with the fruit. Does anyone have a preference between fruiting during primary fermentation, or secondary? I want a good clear flavor, so I'm thinking added the fruit later, but they are so sweet, it might be nice to brew out some of the sugar. If I add later, any ideas on where to set my initial specific gravity? I'll probably do a gallon batch, with 5 lbs honey, plus whatever sugar it needs.
Tried my cider today. Very bubbly. Also, tastes like crap. The initial flavor is good, but is soon followed by an overwhelming aftertaste of yeast. It like liking old, crusty bread, or sticking your tongue in a yeast packet. Its BAD. Anything I can do to save it? I've got a pretrty heavy sediment layer on the bottom of the bottle. Do I try to rack it back into a different container, and try to clear? Is it worth the hassle? Any help or thoughts would be most appriciated.
For a good source of honey, visit http://www.honeylocater.com. You can find specific types of honey and places that sell it.
I prefer using orange blossom honey for most of my meads (I've been making it for seven or eight years). It has a faint citrussy bite to it and a better flavor than wildflower, clover and alfafa honey.
Phil
So the mead has been in the fermenter for over 70 days, but it seems either the fermentation is REALLY slow now, or stopped all together. This seems rather fast for what I have heard about mead, even though I used the yeast nutrient packet - should still be at 4+ months, right?
Is there anything I should check or do at this point?
Captian:
Ummmm.. 4 month fermentation with commercial meade?
I've never had meade take longer than a month in the fermenter using commercial grade yeasts... especially not with the addition of a nutrient packet. Do you know what your specific gravity to start was, and what it is now using a hydrometer?
- Mag
He He...um, yeah the mead was the first batch of anything I brewed, and I messed up on when to take the measurement for the initial hydrometer reading....and didn't realize this for a couple weeks.
I used redstar champagne yeast, I believe. the books I read, and a friends experience, said that I could be waiting 4-6 months, or even a year! (Hense my worry). But if you say it doesn't take that long, well maybe I'll feel better (and have mead in time for TRF!)
CK:
If you have a hydrometer... so ahead and check it now. If the reading is anywhere below 1.2 you can stop the batch now and be sure you have some alcohol in there. Remember the lower the number the "drier" the meade, and typically the higher the alcohol content. Without knowing where you started, it's impossible to determine how much alcohol without expensive equipment, but either way.
I may be a little off, but if you dissolved 2.5 pounds of honey per 1 gallon of water, without adding any additional sugar, you should have been somewhere around 1.6 - 1.7 when you started. The more cane sugar you add, the higher it would have gone. I normally start my meades around 1.9.
It can take two months or so to make a meade including clearing. Sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less. It's the aging process (leaving the meade in the corked bottle) that can take up to and well over a year depending on who you ask. The general idea is the longer the meade ages (up to a point where it can start going bad) the "smoother" the meade will be. I'm a three month guy myself. I usually can't wait any longer to try it out and see how it's doing by then.
- Mag
interesting. Guess I'll work on that this week here. So much to learn in this art! But I do love it, and the results are enjoyable too!
looks good, tastes good, but ts only at 1.105 Sp Grav right now...which is pretty far off all the expectations I see in books (granted I have no clue what the original was).
Hmm, more time I guess
Quote from: Captain Kilian on June 29, 2008, 09:01:50 PM
Ok, turns out I straight up screwed the pouch when it came to hydrometer readings (But hey, I'm new!). So, having all my reading be worthless, is there another way to determine the alcohol content of beer and mead, once the product is done?
There is a little toy called a 'Vinometer.' It measures alcoholic strength up to fifteen percent and costs twenty dollars.
Phil
CK:
That is way off what I would expect. That is actually the starting SG for many wines. Either you started it VERY high, or you did not get much fermentation at all. Maybe both.
Be wary of vinometers, they are notoriously inaccurate, and only work in "dry" wines without any residual sugars (meade typically doesn't fit this category). Remember that it is measuring the viscosity of the wine, and not necessarily the specific gravity, or sugar alcohol content.
It's not my page, but a little more info can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/8280/sugar.html#vino
Here is a scientific explanation of the major methods of alcohol content analysis: http://www.monashscientific.com.au/AlcoholDeterminationOtherMetods.htm
Here is an explanation of the only "real" (meeting legal and taxation regulations) equipment used for the determination of the alcohol content of wine other than gas chromatography: http://www.hannainst.com/usa/prods2.cfm?id=002012
Good luck!
- Mag
turns out, i jsut cant read a hydrometer worth a crap. it came out fine - several folks at TRF got to sample the mead, and several more will get the chance this weekend. came out dry (how i like it) , so the wife is less then impressed.
More for me!
LOL @ CK!
Well.. in the end you proved the truth of brewing... all the technobabble aside.. the most important part... does it taste good?
Tell the wife to add a little cane sugar.. or even honey to the glass before she drinks it... it may help. Another trick some people I know use is to mix the meade with Sprite. Makes it bubbly, and sweetens it up.
- Mag
BAH! i'm just handing her a bottle of chauser's and sharing my nice dry mead with those that enjoy it!
but yes, it takes good the hydrometer thing, despite any end reading i may or may not read correctly stops a the same spot, so its done.
The brown ale came out well to. almost out of it (if that says anything)
can't wait to get the stout bottled!
Stout came out awesome, though I was not prepared for the pressure inside the bottles after priming the stuff. I used teh 1 liter large EZ cap bottles (same I used for mead) - not sure if that had anything to do with it but damn. Renamed from equinox Stout to Mk 82 High Yield Stout! Really didn't figure such a heavy liquid would carbonate very much (or many that it didn't, and all the gas was just sitting there....waiting for me). Best tasting beer I made yet (probably bias though).
Threw together an experimental mead (at least for me). Still working small batches to try out different ideas. For a total of 1 gallon of must tried 6 cups (about 4.5 lbs) honey, with 10 cups water, for a total of a gallon. Starting SG 1.17(!!). I was a little worried that it might have too much for the yeast to handle, but I was getting bubbling from the airlock within minutes. Added half a vanilla bean, half a cinnamon stick, and one clove. I'll be checking spice flavor tonight, and probably twice a day, as I've heard cloves get a little too strong real fast.
Side note: Got a better hydrometer, and a counter top adjustable cork press for the holidays! Woot! Now I just have to try them out.
Hoowil:
That sounds like it will turn out fantastic! Yes.. be careful of the cloves... such a strong flavor can easily overwhelm everything else.
We just started a pear wine for spring. 10 lbs of pears allowed to ripen then mushed (save all the juice of course), added to three gallons of water. Some sugar to get up the specific gravity, and a half of cinnamon stick. Specific gravity started at 1.11. Going to stop at around 1.04 for a sweeter summer wine.
- Mag
Pulled out the clove and cinammon already. Its a little hard to judge the taste right now with the high honey, but I've got my fingers crossed.
Pear wine sounds good. I keep eyeballing wine presses at the local brewer supply, but can't get myself to spend that much money quite yet. Maybe this summer if my trees put off enought fruit for a micro batch...
Just finished my first racking. Had to have a little taste, of course. Looks like this will be my best batch yet. I ended up putting spices back in after it brewed a bit, as the burn I was getting at first was just the honey. I do like the smooth vanilla tones.
Does three weeks sound about right for it to be brewed out? I was getting occasional bubble in the airlock yesterday, maybe one every 30 seconds, and could see a few tiny bubbles in the must. Didn't watch as long today, but saw pretty much nothing.
Also, with doing only a gallon batch, I thought that a chemical clearing agent might be a bad idea (and its not like I'm not going to age the stuff till fall anyway, so I can wait five months to bottle it). But, I do like the crystal clearity its given my other batches. Any thoughts? With the high honey content I started with, will it really every get super clear?
Hoowil:
Just my opinion on this... opinions will vary I'm sure.
Three weeks sounds just about right, based on where you started, where you wanted it to stop, and the yeast you used. It will vary due to those, as well as temperature, humidity, and other environmental factors.
As for the chemical clearing agents. I use both sparkloid -hot mix-, as well as the new "gel" clearing agents.. umm .. Kwik-Kleer I believe is one of them. Remember both are essentially Chitosan (shells from shrimp and other sea crustaceans) ground up very fine. Some do include an accelerate to help in the process, others don't.
They both work by using a negative charge to the particles that attract the particles in the wine, and drag it to the bottom.
There are complaints that the gel agents with accelerates tend to pull too much "color" out of the wine. Meaning they pull too many of the particulates out leaving a sometimes bland, and colorless end product. Other people say its the best stuff to come out for clearing since man figured out how to use egg whites to clear wine.
The short answer is... try it. If you like the end product then you're good. If you don't, stick to hot mix sparkeloid. If you really want to be a purest, get yourself some eggs, and have it.
Good luck!
- Mag
The stuff I've been using was a two part gel clearifier. It worked wonders on my first dry batch, getting crystal clearity in less than two days. It did ok on my first attempt at a strawberry, which had some problems with pectin clouding. I can get in premeassured packets designed for 5 gallons, which is part of my concern, as I only have 1 gallon for this batch. I'm just not sure I'd be comfortable with such an overdose of clearifier.
I know egg whites were used for clearing for centuries. Any idea how it was done? The books I have on the subject just say that it was done that way, and is still possible, but don't give any information of how. Can I just let it settle, with regular racking, for a season?
Hoowil:
I could retype all of this, but.. why?
Here's a link to all different methods of refining: http://www.homebeerwinecheese.com/fining.html
For egg whites.. its actually a whole lot simpler than you might think... whisk up the mixture of egg whites (1/2 - 1 egg per 5 gallons), and sometimes a little salt - don't beat it until it turns to fluff.
Pour in the carboy.. mix, and wait. No different than the others really.
Hope this helps.
- Mag
Ok .. I lied. Since we tend to get a lot of questions on refining, I'm going to copy and paste this information in to a post. It's long I'm sorry. I just don't want the website to go offline and lose such a detailed amount of information.
I did not write this, and take no credit. The author's website can be found here: http://www.homebeerwinecheese.com/fining.html
FINING!
Fining \fine-ing\ vb : to make free from impurities.
A typical white wine regimen:
Post Harvest - Acidulate for pH correction.
Winter - Cold stabilize/reduce acidity.
Spring - Heat stabilize with Bentonite. Reduce harsh tannins & clarify with Gelatin & Kiesolsol.
Summer - Fine tune mouthfeel with Casein and/or Isinglass. Filter & Bottle. Enjoy!
A typical red wine regimen:
Post Harvest - Acidulate for pH correction. Fine with Gelatin to reduce excessive tannins.
Winter - Cold stabilize/reduce acidity.
Spring - Fine tune mouthfeel with Casein and/or Egg Whites.
Summer - Filter & Bottle. Enjoy!
One assumes that you are monitoring SO2, bringing to recommended levels after the end of M/L and maintaining through fining, filtering and then bottling.
BENTONITE: Aluminum Silicate is used primarily to achieve Heat Stability. While it will remove some hazes, its prime use is to remove unseen protein fractions that are unstable at wine pH. Hazes that remain after using 2 lbs./1000 gallons will respond better to a gelatine-kiesolsol treatment.
Dose: 1/2 tsp./gallon = 3 lbs./1000 gallons
SPARKOLLOID: This is a very useful haze removing fining agent. It is a long-chained polysaccharide in an agar base. Possessing a slight positive charge, it forms a microscopic spiderweb, trapping fine colloidal and negative charged particles as it settles. Also tends to collapse bentonite, compacting the lees.
It is simmered in water for 20 minutes to dissolve the agar and is added warm.
Dose: 1 tsp./gal.
KIESOLSOL: Soluble Silica Gel. Has a negative charge which attracts positive charged proteins and tannin-protein complexes. This coagulative process is rapid, uses little silica, and results in compact lees. Add Kiesolsol and then gelatine to remove some hazes. More common is to remove excess tannins with gelatine, followed by Kiesolsol to remove excess gelatine. The resultant coagulant then fines the wine.
Dose: 1/2-1 ml./gallon, with 1/4-1/2 lb. gelatine/1000 galllons ( 1/4-1/2 tsp./5 gallon ).
POLYCLAR/PVPP: Microscopic, insoluble nylon that binds with some phenolic compounds. Can remove color precursors, preventing enzymatic browning/pinking in whites. Not as effective after the fact. Also, may clean-up an imperfect wine's odor/flavor. Can remove anthocyanin (red) color, as in too-red blush wine. Useful for reduction of bitterness (monomeric tannins only).
Dose: 1/2-6 lbs./1000 gallons ( 2 tsp.-8 tbl./5 gallons ).
GELATIN: A protein that attracts tannins, reducing bitterness/astringency. White wines that have a slightly harsh or bitter flavor can be smoothed out with a very small amount of gelatin, followed by kiesolsol.
Hazy whites that have resisted other clarification agents like bentonite will fall crystal clear with gelatin.
Dose: 1/8-1/4 lbs. gelatin/1000 gallons ( 1/8-1/4 tsp./5 gallons ), followed by 1/2-1 ml./gallon kiesolsol.
Tannin was formerly used to settle gelatin, but kiesolsol is preferable. Gelatin will not coagulate and settle out in whites without kiesolsol.
In reds, use gelatin for clarity at levels of 1/4-1/2 lb./1000 gals. For reduction of bitterness in young reds, use 1/2-2 lbs./1000 gallons.
Being rather non-specific, gelatin is often too harsh a treatment for older reds coming out of barrel, so casein or egg whites may be preferred.
To prepare, make a 1% solution (1 gram/25 ml. cold water). Allow to expand. Add hot water to 100 mls. to dissolve.
CASEIN: Potassium Caseinate can improve both flavor and color in slightly oxidized whites. It is more gentle on reds when used close to bottling to reduce astingency. Can also reduce oakiness and slight microbial off-odors.
Dissolves in water, though not easily. Mix 1 volume in 9 volumes water for a few hours. Dilute this paste to be a 1-2% solution. Stir until dissolved. Do not heat. Store in freezer.
Dose: 1/8-1/2 lb./1000 gallons ( 6 grams/5 gallons ). Not over 1 lb/1000 gallons or may impart a milky flavor.
SKIM MILK: A home source of casein. Use powdered skim milk, not whole milk. Caseins flocculate quickly with the wine's acidity, tending to clump before they can react with the tannins. Best to inject in a fine stream with a syringe or baster. Or, add while racking.
Dose: 1/2 pint skimmed milk/5 gallons. Or, 10 grams powdered skim milk/5 gallons in a bit of water.
EGG WHITES: The albumin attracts older, long-chained tannins, slightly reducing astingency and improving mouthfeel in red wines only. Salt is added to solubilize the globulin, clarifying the mixture. It clumps rapidly, so follow the addition advise of casein.
Dose: 1/2 egg/5 gallons = 5-6 eggs/60 gallon barrel. Some use a "pinch" of salt. Or, 2 times the volume of salted water. Salted water = 10 grams salt/1 liter water.
Just wisk the mixture. Do not beat to a fluff.
For dried egg white, use 2.5-4 grams/5 gallons with a bit of warm water.
At The Daume Winery, I use egg whites, a pinch of salt, a wisk and, of course, a copper bowl. Add while stirring the barrel, avoiding aireation.
ISINGLASS: Collagen from the air bladder of sturgeon, "Isinglas is to whites what egg white is to reds". It reacts with older, long-chained tannins to gently improve mouthfeel. Older forms of the stuff were very hard to dissolve and smelled strongly of fish. I have an English form from James Vicker called Drifine that is easy to prepare and is much less smelly.
Dose: 10-30 miligrams/liter.
These fining agents are very useful tools to achieve brilliant clarity as well as a more pleasant and balanced mouthfeel.
Always test first to determine the desired effectiveness and the correct quantity to use. Too much added can take too much out of the wine and may leave excess fining in the wine.
It's important to understand phenolic extraction and developement as the wine ages. Phenols include tannins and color pigments. They come mostly from grape skins, as well as seeds, stems and barrel oak.
As wine ages, phenols link togather, becoming "poly" phenols. Young tannins may taste too coarse. With age, a pleasant dryness/astringency may remain.
Also, remember from the previous discussion of "co-pigmentation" that there is an equilibrium existing between tannins and color pigments. Removal of tannins with protein fining agents can disrupt this equilibrium. The result can often be loss of color stability. It is highly recommended to fine for tannic astingency early in the game before your wine is over 4 months old.
* Use gelatin to aggressively remove shorter chained young tannins/phenols.
* Use casein for moderate tannin reduction, removing medium length polyphenols, as well as some excess oakiness.
* Use isinglass or egg whites to remove long chained, older polyphenols/tannins, improving mouthfeel/astringency.
Reference Books: (All books are available at The Home Beer/Wine/Cheesemaking Shop)
Ough: "Winemaking Basics"; AWS: "Complete Handbook of Winemaking";
Wagner: "Grapes into Wine"; Lundy: "Homemade Table Wines";
Fessler: "Guidelines To Practical Winemaking"; Vine, etc: "Winemaking, From Grape Growing to Marketplace";
Margalit: "Winery Technology & Operations";
Zoecklein, etc: "Wine Analysis & Production"; Margalit: "Wine Chemistry";
Boulton, etc: "Principles & Practices of Winemaking"
I finally got around to trying an egg white fining. No kidding it clumps quickly! I don't know if I did somehting wrong, but I added egg white & a salt during a racking, and by the next morning I had a white clump, larger than the egg I added, floating on top. Does this sound right? Its been 4 days since I did this. Any thoughts/concerns?
Well, I've racked again, and double filtered through coffee filters to catch any sediment that might float up during so. Sampled my 5 pounds to a gallon mead with vanilla, cloves and cinnamon. WOW :o, strong, smooth, and with a spicy finish. I like it. Color is close to a caramel, clearity isn't as good as my previous batches, but the actual honey content was easy quadruple, so that might be a major factor.Its a little thick and sweet for a summer time drink, but I'll bottle it and let it set until next winter, then serve it hot.
No clue what the end SG was, or the alcohol, as my hydrometer has once again died. The thing sat behind the brew bottle, in its case, in the reading tube, but when I opened it, the thing had a clean snap right in the middle of it ???. Guess I'll be getting another one when I get my bottles after next payday.
I guess I find out if my egg fining did anything weird soon enough, as I'm having a small glass right now.
Has anyone dealt with cork wax? I plan on bottling this into small bottles, labels and waxed, to get as finely finished a project as I can (also figure color coding waxes by batch will help keep track of what I've got). Just curious if there is anything I should be aware of, and techniques I should know, etc.
Here's what's brewing at my place currently... ought to be ready just in time for MNRF this year, though some will be set aside to age appropriately as well.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3531/3469110213_2552c32f39.jpg)
From left to right in this photo:
- 5 gallons hard cider
- 1 gallon orange mead
- 4 gallons light amber mead
- 1 gallon pumpkin pie mead
- 1 gallon habanero mead (this one's for those daring enough to drink it..)
Recipe's are fairly straight forward. Though I can't say one way or the other how good or bad they are as these were all started within the past week, with the three one gallon batches having just been started this afternoon.
Pumpkin pie? Thats sounds interesting, hopefully it works out well. My own single attempt at hard cider turned out strange, more like a sparkling apple wine, so I can't wait to hear how yours turns out. Maybe if it works out you can give me a few pointers for fall/apple season when I try again.
I've been thinking of trying to add a few batches of wine to my stockpile. As I'll be using home grown fruit, I have a few months to prepare and hopefully get my questions/concerns out of the way.
First, I've seen mainly wood (oak) presses, but also some small counter-top stainless ones. The stainless has a definite apeal for ease of cleaning. Are there any pros and cons to each?
If I'm doing fruits that I know are pesticide free, are there ary things I need to take into account for cleaning the fruit. I'm mainly thinking plum at the moment (as that and blackberries are what I generally get the most of), aside from pitting, is there any preparations to be taken?
Now to risk sounding very naive, I want to make sure to cover the basics. Once pressed, I sweeten the juice to adjust SG levels, and add yeast. Simple enough. I know that cooking the juice risks clouding, so do I need to do something else to sanitize? Do I bother? Do I add water to increase volume? Or is it a pesonal taste thing?
Well, anyway, as I said, it'll probably be August or later before I can start, so any thoughts, comments, smacks upside the newbie head, etc. would be appriciated.
I'm quite a newb at this whole brewing thing myself, but I think issues with cloudiness are generally handled pretty easily with sparkeloid.. or something like that, not sure on the spelling. ;)
From my own experience, pectin clouding can be cleared with a clearing agent, but it took my strawberry mead batch months to get nice and clear, while my fruitless one took a matter of days. And I've read that bad cases of pectin clouding will never really go away, it pretty much turn your drink into really runny jelly
Also, as a personal note, I'm leaning towards staying away from chemical treatments (except for sanitation) at least for a little while. My one (so far) experiment with egg fining seems to have worked out well enough. I admit that I didn't get quite the clarity that I got in my earlier batches and chemical treatment, but this last batch was a very high honey content mead, made from a dark honey. I'm actually waiting for my corks to soak as I write, so I might be able to have finished pics up in a day or two.
Quote from: Magister on May 17, 2008, 05:43:42 PM
Moira:
Wow... You are the very first person I have ever heard that had a good experience with a "Mr. Beer" kit. Usually it's a horror story of epic proportions.
I personally have never tried using Brown Sugar inplace of white. I knew a guy who used "unrefined" or the natural sugar like you get in the little brown packets at Starbucks. From what I remember him telling me it didn't make a whole lot of difference to anything.
I'm curious what the end result would be with an all brown sugar mixture - wine or beer. If it works like Moira Mr. Beer, or if there are other interactions. If someone tries it let us know how it goes.
I have the parts from a Mr. Beer kit that was given to me many years ago. The guy didn't like the beer it made either...
As for brown sugar? I had some root beer that was made with brown sugar. You could taste it big time! It was actually very acidic tasting and left a bitter after taste. I don't know if it would do anything good in wine, beer or mead.
Jon.
When making cordials (I think Loki is specifically the almond/vanilla flavor, ad the name spread to any cordial made with EC) what type of bottles do you decant to first? I'm planning on 4 different varieties, all of which will need to steep with solids, so i cant go immediately into my bottles. Do you think plastic tupperware style tubs, etc would be sufficient? Or old juice bottles?
If it isn't something that is going to ferment (i.e. not going to add yeast to it and it isn't going to release excessive amounts of carbon dioxide) which I don't think a cordial will, then any closed container that has been sanitized should work. The only reason I say sanitized is because obviously you don't want any added nasties stinking up your good tasties.
I would say something that seals well and is as close to the same volume as the liquid/solid mixture that you are having sit in it is best. That way there is as little air as possible, and no chance for spills. But juice bottles, tupperware... I think for cordials any of those would work just fine.
I'm still a big fan of using glass carboy's. We have everything from 350ml, 750ml, 1 gal, 3 gal, 5 gal and 6 gal for fermenting and bulk aging. Add a bung and airlock and you are golden. No nasties will get through a airlock filled with vodka...
Jon.
I've got a collection of 1 gallon glass bottles I got apple cider in. Its pretty easy to find a airlock bung the fits, and you can get it full of juice for cheaper than I've been able to fins most carboys. I actually do most of me brewing in them so as to be able to experiment with small batches and different ideas. The opening is about one inch round, so some solids fit pretty easy, others might need to be cut down a little. I have fit cinnamon sticks in and out (put a thread around one end, tied securely so it can be pulled out by one end straight out the neck) easily enough.
My sweet mead is aged, and done. I've openning a couple bottles, and the stuff is soooo smooth! I think I'll be making the unsweetened (no extra sugar) sweet meads like that for a while more.
Only thought, this was my first batch I used corks for, instead of capping. I got some particles, clouding off of the cork. It doesn't seem to have a negative effect on the flavor of the mead, but I'm not thrilled about the appearance. Anyone have similar experiences, or suggestions?