In response to several questions about the rules and if/how they should be changed I am opening up a discussion thread. I ask that you keep it civil. If you have any ideas for rules or changes to the rules please list them here.
These are the rules and regulations as they stand now:
Faires
1.The U.S. will be split into 7 sections:
a.Northeast: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York
b.East: Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Virginia, West Virginia
c.Southeast: Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi
d.Midwest: Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa
e.Southwest: Kansas, Missouri, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico
f.West: California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado
g.Northwest: Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska
2.A faire cannot be considered again for ten years or until the section has been chosen twice.
3.A section cannot be considered for four years. (In other words in 2010 the Southwest section can be in the running but Texas Renaissance Festival cannot be in the running until 2016.)
4.On the slightest off chance that a faire should decide to close it's gates after it has been chosen the faire in 2nd place will get the RenDezvous.
Planning Committee
1.On May 1st, LadyJessica will post what faires are open for volunteers to come forward to say that they would like to plan a RenDezvous.
2.Everyone will have one month in which to announce that they'd like to plan a RenDezvous.
3.In order to be in the running for the RenDezvous the faire must have at least two people to plan the gathering.
Voting
1.On June 1st, LadyJessica will post which faires are in the running for the RenDezvous.
2.A members' vote will only count if they were a member before June 1st of that year and have at least 25 posts.
3.Everyone will have one month in which to place his or her vote.
4.Each member has one vote and one vote only.
5.For that vote to count the member must make the vote themselves. You cannot ask someone to make it for you.
6.Please keep the voting thread to votes only.
7. Votes must be made in the thread. You can not Renmail your vote.
Campaigning
1.After we know which faires are in the running we ask that each person planning the gathering to write up a paragraph or two about why we should choose their faire and to give us general information about the faire; i.e. times, dates, prices, camping, etc. You can do a write up as a group.
2.These paragraphs will be sent to LadyJessica who will post the paragraph along with who wrote it under one thread, which will remain locked.
3.If you have any general questions about what someone has said please Renmail that person and ask them.
4.There will be no why-my-faire-is-better-than-your-faire politics. If the Mods start to see these posts they will be deleted.
5.If you want to have more people vote for your faire you may post reminders within said faire's section in the forum.
These are the proposed new rules that I have posted in to the Mods:
The changes are in bold:
Rules and Regulations for faires, planning, voting, and campaigning.
In learning from past experiences of choosing a RenDezvous location the Moderators have decided to lay some ground rules for those members old and new to our RF.com family.
If you have questions, comments, or concerns about the rules please ask them here and the Mods will answer them as best we can.
If a rule needs changing then the mods will change it accordingly.
Faires
1.The U.S. will be split into 7 sections:
a.Northeast: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York
b.East: Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Virginia, West Virginia
c.Southeast: Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi
d.Midwest: Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa
e.Southwest: Kansas, Missouri, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico
f.West: California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado
g.Northwest: Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska
2.A faire cannot be considered again for ten years or until the section has been chosen twice.
3.A section cannot be considered for four years. (In other words in 2010 the Southwest section can be in the running but Texas Renaissance Festival cannot be in the running until 2016.)
4.On the slightest off chance that a faire should decide to close it's gates after it has been chosen the faire in 2nd place will get the RenDezvous.
Planning Committee
1.On May 1st, LadyJessica will post what faires are open for volunteers to come forward to say that they would like to plan a RenDezvous.
2.Everyone will have one month in which to announce that they'd like to plan a RenDezvous.
3.In order to be in the running for the RenDezvous the faire must have at least two people to plan the gathering.
Voting
1.On June 1st, LadyJessica will post which faires are in the running for the RenDezvous.
2.A members' vote will only count if they were a member before June 1st of that year and have at least 25 posts. If your post count is below 25 posts your vote will still count if you have been a member for at least six months from the beginning of the voting thread.
3.Everyone will have one month in which to place his or her vote.
4.Each member has one vote and one vote only.
5.For that vote to count the member must make the vote themselves. You cannot ask someone to make it for you.
6.Please keep the voting thread to votes only.
7. Votes must be made in the thread. You cannot Renmail your vote.
Campaigning
1.After we know which faires are in the running we ask that each person planning the gathering to write up a paragraph or two about why we should choose their faire and to give us general information about the faire; i.e. times, dates, prices, camping, etc. You can do a write up as a group.
2.These paragraphs will be sent to LadyJessica who will post the paragraph along with who wrote it under one thread, which will remain locked.
3.If you have any general questions about what someone has said please Renmail that person and ask them.
4.There will be NO why-my-faire-is-better-than-your-faire politics. If the Mods start to see these posts they will be deleted.
5.If you want to have more people vote for your faire you may post reminders to go and vote within said faire's section in the forum. i.e. You can post "Go Vote" threads in the South section if one of those faires are in the running. You cannot post "Go Vote for XYZ Faire" threads.
6.You cannot Renmail people asking for their vote.
I don't like the posting the vote rule.
If my vote must be made public then I shall refrain from voting. A secret ballot allows people to vote for what they truly wish.
I have friends from every faire on the list, some very close, and I do not want to upset any of them by voting "against" their faire.
For example:
Scarby is one of my two home faires, if I vote for Scarby then I vote against my very good friends the Bayou Scoundrels.
The Bayou Scoundrels are some of my dearest friends, if I vote for LARF then I am voting against my friends at Scarby.
This is my own personal conundrum. I should not have to share my thoughts on this with anyone but myself. I should not have to post in public which faire I am voting for because that is my own private choice.
On the other side of things, I very much like the eligibility rules as posted. Given the option of a number of posts or tenure makes much sense to me.
I don't understand why we cannot post things like "Go vote for XRF" in our own faires threads though. It's not like someone is automatically going to do it just because someone else said to. I also don't see it as pressuring or anything like that. It's just showing pride in your faire. If someone whose home faire is a different one is reading that, I wouldn't expect them to go vote because they are in it. I agree that you should not have a "My Faire is Better Than X faire" thread, but having a "pride" thread talking good about your faire seems to be a great option. The rules could be simple: 1- Only post about the faire the thread is in. 2- Visitors may ask questions about the faire in this thread. 3- Nothing negative may be posted regarding the faire, only brags and/or straight information. The reason why I think that is a good thread idea is that no one is ever going to write a paragraph (no matter how long) and cover EVER good thing about a faire. There are far to many things to mention for any one person to remember to write them all out. But in a brag thread, everyone who loves their faire may post their own wonderful thoughts and experiences about it. (Seriously, every faire's thread already has something along those lines anyways, this just makes it official for voting information)
I do agree with the no renmail rule on asking for votes. That is pressuring and spam (and spam is nasty).
*just my two rum shots worth*
Regarding the "cannot post asking people to vote for XYZ faire" there should obviously be an exception allowing such posts in that Faire's Specific Forum Area (I.E. in the forum area with that faire's name).
Regarding the "No why my faire is better than your faire" rule, there should also be an exception for such posts in the forum of the faire which the person thinks is better. If people in faire X want to discuss why they like their faire better than faire Y they should be able to do it. Besides if this rule is used then a lot of posts from all over the forum would need to be removed which describe why people thought one faire was better or worse than another. If this rule was used it would chill any discussion comparing different faires.
Regarding no renmails asking for votes...in theory this sounds like a good idea however in practice any number of communications or discussions via renmail could be construed as violating the rule. The moderators shouldn't moderate what people discuss in private communications.
I suggest having people renmail votes to two selected moderators and therefor no votes would be posted publicly in a vote thread. This would assure anonymity. The moderators could then count and compare the vote results. This would remove any politics and everyone could vote however they liked in anonymity.
The 25 vote count requirement should remain because it represents the important principle that we want people who participate in the forums to be the ones who vote.
Regards,
CB
1st Proposed rule change under "Faire"
No section that has already hosted a rendevous or is scheduled to host a rendevous will be considered again until all other sections have had a rendevous or a section that has not had a rendevous fails to propose a faire for selection.
If for some reason we fail to get a proposed faire from an area that has not already hosted a rendevous, then the process will be open to all areas except the current and/or scheduled rendevous areas.
(this rule will ensure that each section of the country will get a fair shot at hosting the rendevous)
2nd Proposed rule change under "Faire"
A state within a section that has already held a rendevous, will not be eligible to run again until at least one other faire from another state in that section has hosted a rendevoux or if no other state from a section proposes to host a rendevous and the section is eligible, then the same state can propose a faire.
(this rule will ensure that more states get a fair shot a hosting a rendevous)
I agree with the voting rule change of 25 posts or 6 months if under 25 posts.....it makes it fair for the quiet types that don't post and just lurk or find information on the forum.
Proposal for change to voting for Rendevous
I think that we could come up with a Voting Committee, to include mods and at least one representative from each area of the country. Then create a group email address so that one email goes to every member of the committee. Then members must email their vote to the one address, then the Committee will be able to count the votes and ensure that each has the same count based on the emails.
(this will ensure that votes are kept private and that there is a system of checks and balances)
In general, I like the proposed new rules.
I could support a change to vote via renmail rather than voting publicly if public votes were going to make some people uncomfortable.
I definitely agree with the prohibition against renmail spam for Rendezvous voting. I got some this season and didn't much care for it.
I think this rule is problematic as written:
Quotei.e. You can post "Go Vote" threads in the South section if one of those faires are in the running. You cannot post "Go Vote for XYZ Faire" threads.
I can see where you wouldn't want to have multiple threads spamming a given faire's forum, but certainly there's going to be a thread in each candidate faire's forum where the proponents of that faire discuss the voting and their prospects. Some of these posts will show general renaissancefestival.com community spirit and some won't (ie. "We are soooooo kicking NY's arse."), but either way threads and posts will be made encouraging voting for each given faire in that faire's forum. I can't come up with an alternate wording that I like better just now, but I think it's too vague/restrictive as currently written.
OK
Once more I am going to out on a limb here (most likely to get pushed off)
1) If we can't as a community vote, and vote fair, let a council or board make the choice
2) This place and the pastime and lifestyle it represents is about fun and having a good time, should we be endorsing or helping out a gathering that has even a hint of underhanded activity like shill votes?
3) A gathering like this could make or break a smaller faire, the voting has to be fair so that even the small faire get the same chance as the big ones.
4) Say screw it, do away with the idea of one a year, and let people rendevous where they want to, or can afford to, and then gather here and report on it. Next year, people can make their own choice.
Viscomte
OK, start sawing the branch now!
I personally like the idea of not voting in the thread. I don't like my vote plastered for everyone to see. I wish there was a way to keep the poll honest. I really dug being able to see where everything stood!
I, however, DO NOT believe that there is any reason that a state shoud be excluded just because one of the faires has been hosted for a RenDezvous in the past. I mean, seriously, Texas is a large enough state that our two faires are at least a 4 hour drive away from each other. Hell, most people on the East Coast can get across their entire state in that time. Our two faires here are completely different cultures with a completely different group of RFers that support it. True, there is some crossover, but not as much as one would think.
If I'm going to be spending my money on a RenDezvous, I want the opportunity to choose it. I want to see the more well known faires, mostly because there's a lot of hype surrounding them that I just HAVE to see them for myself. A smaller faire sounds good, every once in awhile. But I want to see those faires that really give me more bang for my buck.
I'm sorry if our bid for hosting Scarborough has upset anyone. The rules stated that we could, and I know that a lot of people would like to see that faire. It sounded like a great idea, and there was a chance for us share our faire with our out of state friends. We haven't violated any of the rules that were posted, we haven't fought dirty, we haven't slammed any of the other faires (I personally can't wait to see AZRF). I'm getting the feeling that most of this drama stems from the fact that there is some animosity towards us for offering to host. We just want to throw a party LOL!!!!!
My 2 pennies: I think we got enough rules already, if we're not careful, there'll be so many rules no-one will want to get involved.
Secret vote? We're not deciding national security issues here, I don't care if anyone knows how I voted. Whattaya gonna do if i don't vote for your faire, sic the mafia on me? Not worried, got my own witness protection program (if ya wanna know what it is, ren-mail me) ;D
That being said, I only need to know 3 things:
1. What are the nominees
2. Where do I vote
3. How do I vote (post, ren-mail, whatever)
I agree, there's really no need for a secret ballot in this case. If you don't agree with the outcome, then you most likely won't go, simple enough.
And if I hear anyone bring up a "council of elders", or what have you, to decide for us one more time, I'm going to scream. We're all adults and can think for ourselves, thank you very much.
Quote from: Mad Jack Wolfe on June 13, 2009, 06:55:02 PM
I agree, there's really no need for a secret ballot in this case. If you don't agree with the outcome, then you most likely won't go, simple enough.
And if I hear anyone bring up a "council of elders", or what have you, to decide for us one more time, I'm going to scream. We're all adults and can think for ourselves, thank you very much.
Jack
Free exchange of thoughts, right?
Switch to decaf brother, we all have our own thoughts and opinions and getting knotted up over someone elses is just silly.
Viscomte
Whoa, gentlemen! :D
This is going to be respectfully intended so please no one take offense.
I want to go to a faire where I KNOW the people who are hosting it.
Some who are hosting it really do not post out of their faire forum. While I understand familiarity with your own kind, I would like to go to a faire where I know the people and am friends with.
After all, while the faire counts for something, it is the people who make it.
And I voted for the faire where my friends will be.
I liked the way it was done before. All of it. All the old rules. The old public voting.
I think it would be nice if there was a place for those who have volunteered to host to place an "advertisement" for their fair. No insulting or comparing to other fairs simply, "this is what our faire has to offer and what you can expect from us as hosts" sort of thing. Lock the thread, don't allow replies or further campaigning. Sometimes it's hard to vote when you don't know much about the faires. I'd like a little extra info.
I am arguing my points as to the fairness of the situation. Not to argue against Texas, although I can see where it appears I am. If the next faire had been proposed in the Midwest where there had already been a rendevous, I would be arguing exactly the same point. As a matter of fact, with the rules the way they are now, next year will see the midwest eligible again and we will still have areas that have not hosted an event. I just want to see the rules be faire to each region of the country, and to be honest, I don't think that the southwest or midwest should even be eligible to host two rendevous within 5 years when we have three regions (two of which have proposed to host the event in 2010) that have not had one at all. As a matter of fact, since the first vote, only one area of the country (the Northwest) has not proposed at least two faires to host rendevous over the varios years.
I also want to see a bang for my buck, but I don't want to travel to the southwest or midwest every 4 or years just because they have so many faires that are great and the votes to keep the the rendevous there, there are other regions that deserve the chance to host one. I would like to see the rest of the country as well and see the differences to how they do things. There are a lot of great faires out there and although I realize because of the economy that not everyone can get to them all. Rendevous just by virtue of the name should make every attempt to be fair to all the rennie communities
If my proposed changes get voted down, I am fine with that also and will fully support the rules that come out of this. At least it was an entire membership vote.
Jack, et al
We are making this way harder than it needs to be, that's what happen when too many people have a hand in making a decision. There is rioting in the streets of some country tonight over an election that both sides think they have won, let's not have it here. Faire is way too important to my days off to make someone upset because i have a different view than theirs. Let's be friends, OK?
That said, I am willing to take AZRF out of the running for Rendevous by stepping down as the host. I know that there are no other people who want to host here, so that might solve a bit of this conflict.
I want our time at faire to be a happy one, I can plan special events for those who want to come and make the time a memorable one for all. That way those that cannot go to Rendevous, and can make it here, get the best of both worlds.
Viscomte
This thread should be for discussing the proposed rules and that has nothing to do with Arizona or any other faire. We should intellectually discuss the issues and not get involved emotionally.
In the end the mods will decide on the rules and they have asked for our input here.
Regards,
CB
Quote from: Sir Ironhead on June 13, 2009, 06:47:07 PM
Secret vote? We're not deciding national security issues here, I don't care if anyone knows how I voted. Whattaya gonna do if i don't vote for your faire, sic the mafia on me? Not worried, got my own witness protection program (if ya wanna know what it is, ren-mail me) ;D
A renmail voting system is the best way because people don't all feel the way you do. I like my friends from all my faires and would very much not want to alienate any of them by voting against their faires.
If you want to vote out loud, go right ahead. I prefer secret ballots because people are far more willing to vote their true feeling when aren't concerned about being judged.
As I said, I won't vote in a public thread... .just ain't going to happen
*Hopping of the rum box now*
Was there a problem with the last 3 RenDezvous with people posting who they voted for in the voting thread? I don't remember any, but then again, after a couple of glasses of Chaucer's mead, I don't remember too much....... :D
Kudos to Lady Jessica for opening this up for everyone's input, first of all.
And I'm a moderator in this thread, so what I have to say can be taken with a grain of salt. Or whatever else that measures into a grain that you might want that makes you happy.
My primary thoughts are that it's nice to have the areas available rotate throughout the country, regionally. We might want to split it all up into more miles as opposed to actual regions to make it more fair? I'm almost wondering if we should make a Faire area unavailable at all until all faires that are represented here with two people who want to host have had their turn and at least a chance of being chosen after satisfying the region or mileage requirement. Just food for thought. I know from having planned a RenDevous in the past that it's necessary to have more than one person involved, in case anyone becomes ill or needs to bow out for any reason.
I hate it when people are urged to vote one way or another in any coercive manner, whether it be by renmail or in the threads, with the exception of "don't forget to vote for our home faire in the running" in the individual faire threads. I feel as though it's a personal choice. I personally don't care if it's secret or not, but that's just me.
I like the idea of grandfathering in people who may not post so much but have been active members for a long time nonetheless. Just because you don't feel compelled to post a lot doesn't mean that you aren't in here frequently reading and feel like this is a community you belong to.
Once all of the people's ideas are in place and we've all discussed them I would like to see further discussion be put to rest. This has happened every year and it's understandable with new members, etc. But it makes it very difficult for us to actually make decisions in a timely manner. For instance, if AZ is to be chosen, it comes up not long after MD this year, even though it's in a different calendar year (as per the rules, which is perfectly fine). I would hate to see people have to miss AZ if it were the selected Faire because overlong discussion this year were to make it impossible.
Faires
1.The U.S. will be split into 7 sections:
a.Northeast: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York
b.East: Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Virginia, West Virginia
c.Southeast: Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi
d.Midwest: Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa
e.Southwest: Kansas, Missouri, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico
f.West: California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado
g.Northwest: Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska
Here's a very simple suggestion based on the list above.
There are 7 sections. Pull straws out of a hat to make them a,b,c,d,e,f,g.
Rotate sections every year, starting with A the first year, B the second, etc.
Then, people can vote for a state in that section on where they want the faire to be. Have a rule that each state in the section must have a turn to host RenDezvous before the same state can host it again as long as there are other states that want to host it and have 2 people willing to host it from their faire. If no one wants to host it, then a state that already had one can have another one, at a different location.
If there is no one in a section that wants to host a RenDezvous, then skip down to the next section.
If everybody knows in advance where the next section is, then they will have enough time to save up $.
An example, in case I didn't make sense:
Let's say Section A hosts the RenDezvous this year (let's say Maine, for example).
Next year, Section B has a turn. Pennsylvania, New Jersey, & Delaware each offer to host. Forum members vote between those & pick one. Or other scenario: Nobody in that section wants to host a RenDezvous. Drop down to Section C, etc.
So, we go all through the sections in a few years. We get back to Section A again. Maine can't host it again unless every other state in that section declines. And it will be a different faire than the one that hosted it this year (remember, we said this year Maine would host it when the example started).
Well, don't we figure that if any of these other areas had any wish to host that they would have come forward? As it is, there were 4 sections to choose from, and only 3 came forward with host groups.
I'm happy the rule about 25 posts has been changed so that long time members who haven't yet reached that number can vote. As for the rest, I have no problem with it, and have no qualms about making my choice public.
Quote from: blue66669 on June 13, 2009, 11:57:55 PM
Well, don't we figure that if any of these other areas had any wish to host that they would have come forward? As it is, there were 4 sections to choose from, and only 3 came forward with host groups.
Yes, I agree with that the way the rules are now stated. But if a group knows they have 2 years to prepare, maybe someone will be willing to step forward. And in the meantime, there may be new members who have joined within that 2 years who would be willing to host.
I never had any problem with the old way, but if there are members that do, I'm just suggesting what could be a compromise. Faire's fun. Let's not make it rocket science! :D
I do like your idea, Renee, it's a potential solution to the problem of one geographic area having more RenDevous' than any other, and may indeed encourage some to step up to host if they think the RenDevous may choose their faire, even though there aren't a large number of forum members in their area.
Renee, I also like the idea as you put it, it would definitely ensure that each section got a chance before another section can run again and keeps the rendevous moving about.
Quote author=Cobaltblu
Regarding the "cannot post asking people to vote for XYZ faire" there should obviously be an exception allowing such posts in that Faire's Specific Forum Area (I.E. in the forum area with that faire's name).
Regarding the "No why my faire is better than your faire" rule, there should also be an exception for such posts in the forum of the faire which the person thinks is better. If people in faire X want to discuss why they like their faire better than faire Y they should be able to do it. Besides if this rule is used then a lot of posts from all over the forum would need to be removed which describe why people thought one faire was better or worse than another. If this rule was used it would chill any discussion comparing different faires.
In the past we did allow this. But the people for other faire did look into those thread and it sometimes turned pretty nasty. That's why there is a rule for it.
Regarding no renmails asking for votes...in theory this sounds like a good idea however in practice any number of communications or discussions via renmail could be construed as violating the rule. The moderators shouldn't moderate what people discuss in private communications.
We know we can't stop people from RenMailing asking for votes but there have been people in the past that have RenMailed the same people over and over again asking for vote and it just got a little annoying to those people that were getting the RenMails.
I suggest having people renmail votes to two selected moderators and therefor no votes would be posted publicly in a vote thread. This would assure anonymity. The moderators could then count and compare the vote results. This would remove any politics and everyone could vote however they liked in anonymity.
This wouldn't be a bad idea.
The 25 vote count requirement should remain because it represents the important principle that we want people who participate in the forums to be the ones who vote.
Readers/Lurkers are important as well they may not speak up as much but when they do they usually have a good thing to say. I know several of the low posters were from the old forum and even there they lurked but they had a year or 5 to build up their post count.
Regards,
CB
Quote author=Lairde Guardn MCrack
1st Proposed rule change under "Faire"
No section that has already hosted a rendevous or is scheduled to host a rendevous will be considered again until all other sections have had a rendevous or a section that has not had a rendevous fails to propose a faire for selection.
If for some reason we fail to get a proposed faire from an area that has not already hosted a rendevous, then the process will be open to all areas except the current and/or scheduled rendevous areas.
(this rule will ensure that each section of the country will get a fair shot at hosting the rendevous)
Give me a timeline; how long would you give people from those sections that haven't had a RenDezvous to come forward as hosts before you open it up again?
2nd Proposed rule change under "Faire"
A state within a section that has already held a rendevous, will not be eligible to run again until at least one other faire from another state in that section has hosted a rendevoux or if no other state from a section proposes to host a rendevous and the section is eligible, then the same state can propose a faire.
(this rule will ensure that more states get a fair shot a hosting a rendevous)
Once again give me a timeline; how long would you give people from those states that haven't had a RenDezvous to come forward as hosts before you open it up again.
I agree with the voting rule change of 25 posts or 6 months if under 25 posts.....it makes it fair for the quiet types that don't post and just lurk or find information on the forum.
Proposal for change to voting for Rendevous
I think that we could come up with a Voting Committee, to include mods and at least one representative from each area of the country. Then create a group email address so that one email goes to every member of the committee. Then members must email their vote to the one address, then the Committee will be able to count the votes and ensure that each has the same count based on the emails.
(this will ensure that votes are kept private and that there is a system of checks and balances)
I will talk to the admins about this to see if it is possible.
Quote from: LadyJessica on June 14, 2009, 10:07:13 AM
Quote author=Cobaltblu
Regarding the "cannot post asking people to vote for XYZ faire" there should obviously be an exception allowing such posts in that Faire's Specific Forum Area (I.E. in the forum area with that faire's name).
Regarding the "No why my faire is better than your faire" rule, there should also be an exception for such posts in the forum of the faire which the person thinks is better. If people in faire X want to discuss why they like their faire better than faire Y they should be able to do it. Besides if this rule is used then a lot of posts from all over the forum would need to be removed which describe why people thought one faire was better or worse than another. If this rule was used it would chill any discussion comparing different faires.
In the past we did allow this. But the people for other faire did look into those thread and it sometimes turned pretty nasty. That's why there is a rule for it.
Ok, however enforcement of this rule will have to be done with great care and common sense since it could be interpreted to prohibit any comparison of difference faires or expressions of pride over one's home faire.
Perhaps a moratorium on any such posts ONLY during the time period started by the first official moderator post about looking for the next year's Rendezvous faires and ending with the conclusion of the voting for the next year's Rendezvous site. This would allow people to compare different faires at will during the rest of the year but limit the extent of this "extensive" post restriction to the period of time when it may be needed.
Also will any existing posts like this be deleted?In general I am extremely opposed to any restriction regarding what people can discuss, but think this rule could be very valuable if implemented in the right manner.
Regarding when rules for Rendezvous, in general, are in effect perhaps we make all rules ONLY be in effect during that time period from when the first moderator posts are made until the final voting ends?
Regards,
CB
I don't think there's anything wrong with asking people to be respectful at ALL times. We all love our faires but there's never any reason to compare faires with the thought to citing you faire as being the better. Not in any way. That's why we have Rendezvous and gatherings, because we are all so different and it's nice to be able to come together as one once a year. We choose as a group to give a particular faire the honor of hosting us and showing us their own brand of fun. It's not a competition. It's about sharing.
Renmail spam, just in bad taste. Not overly fond of being emailed and reminded to vote...preferably for this particular faire or that. It reminds me of the Barbara Bush spam calls a few yeras back when her son was running. Don't do it, you just look like a fool in the end and do more harm than good.
I am of course fine with grandfathering in those members who have been with the forum for at least six months prior to the voting, even without 25 posts.
I don't personally have a problem making my vote public, but I can understand why others might. I do like to see a "I voted" thread in place though. It adds to the excitement. It's not important to know for whom you voted, just that you took part.
Renee, I like the idea as well. I've been thinking that perhaps the reason we don't have many faires step up is that people forget it's that time of year again and don't get the discussions going in their group in time. I think if everyone in group A,, for example knew that next year in particular they'd have their chance they'd have things lined up and ready to go. I know I've heard many people say "I hope we get Rendevous some year". Perhaps this will inspire them to get a plan together in time to present. They'd have a year, knowing they would be in the running, to get to know more members if they don't already and to talk up their faire a bit. It would also give the rest of us a year to focus on those faires in that particular region. Getting to know them better and perhaps finding we have more friends at faires we can travel to. I like this. :)
In response to Lady Jessica response to my proposals. Currently I believe 30 days are allowed for a faire to post that they would like to host the rendevous. I would recommend that a post at the beginning of that time frame be made that faires from the eligible sections have 20 days to post they have the 2 people to host the event. But in the same post notify everyone that if no faires from the eligible section posts they have 2 hosts then open the last 10 days up to the other faires. I am thinking that faires that wish to host the rendevous will be watching the thread closely and will post as soon as they see it is open.
The same timeframe could be used for both proposals.
Think about all the discussions people have about different faires and comparing them.
People say things like:
Food wasn't good at faire X this year but I had great food at faire Y
Faire security was checking all bags at faire Y but when I went to faire Z they politely reminded no outside food or drink.
The parking lot was muddy at Faire X but faire Y has nice flat and dry gravel parking lots.
Faire Z cut staff levels too low and it affected the atmosphere and quality of entertainment but faire Z increased staff members.
Faire X has all kinds of new and exciting acts but faire Y has the same acts for the last 10 years so I prefer faire X.
These types of comments need to be allowed because they are absolutely germane to people choosing which faire they might want to vote for during Rendezvous vote time. These types of comments are also absolutely germane to discussing faires on an internet renaissance faire discussion forum (hence the name discussion forum).
I know I want to know which faires are or aren't good before I travel to attend them.
I assume the majority of members of RF.com would agree with me since if we can't contrast the pros and cons of different faires what purpose is there in having a discussion forum?
I am a free speech advocate yet understand it is important to be respectful on this forum since it is not a public space but yet a privately owned enterprise.
I could agree with banning posts which just say things like "Faire X sucks and go to Faire Y" because that is unsupported liable however we should never ban factually based comparisons.
I assume the moderators are not suggesting banning factual based comparisons or pros and cons of faires, but if they are there are many posts on this site which would have to be removed and I assume there are also some disrespectful posts which would need to be removed.
Regards,
CB
I will be working on the rules this week when I have time. I'm hoping to get a new set up by the weekend for everyone to look over and make comments to.
Quote from: Lady_Glorianna on June 15, 2009, 06:35:53 PM
If the idea of the gathering is to get as many people as possible to attend, there has to be a reasonable time between gatherings. For example, if we had a gathering at LARF which runs Nov-Dec how many people would be financially prepared to gather again at FLARF which runs Feb-Mar. The gatherings would happen in different years but how many people would really be able to attend both gatherings? There should be a time period between gatherings to allow people to recover financially and otherwise.
That is a good idea if you live in that part of the states.
Bad idea if you are on the west coast.
Viscomte
Her idea obviously has nothing to do with one area of the country or another area or one faire or another faire.
Her idea is just that there is a time buffer between faires and that is a very practical rule since it would make no sense to have a Rendezvous at a faire late in one year and early in the following year.
A time limit makes sense for many reasons because it gives RF.com time to vote, gives people time to plan hosting Rendezvous, and gives time for individual people to save money to make the trip.
Personally I think there should be a good 9-10 month buffer between Rendezvous because the example Lady_Gloriana gave of LARF one year and FLARF the following year is too quick.
We want to maximize the number of people who can attend.
I believe that the reason that rule was outvoted was because of the fact that only a few faires would fall into that time period every year. We would be limited to what we could pick from, if anything.
I believe that the rules are good as they stand, only with the post count/time here tweak.
*rubs temples and reaches for the Excedrin*
Quote from: Welsh Wench on June 15, 2009, 08:16:19 PM
*rubs temples and reaches for the Excedrin*
Our wonderful pharmacy tech knows exactly where they are kept. Huzzah to WW!
(this is another attempt to lighten up this thread - thanks Wenchie) ;D
Quote from: blue66669 on June 15, 2009, 08:11:09 PM
I believe that the reason that rule was outvoted was because of the fact that only a few faires would fall into that time period every year. We would be limited to what we could pick from, if anything.
I believe that the rules are good as they stand, only with the post count/time here tweak.
That's right Blue. There have been alot of great ideas posted in our discussion threads here that were batted around back on the old forum and discarded because they sounded good in theory, but not so much in practice. Unfortunate that we lost those discussion threads when the forum crashed so we'd all be on the same page now and everyone could see how we got to the current rules. I admit I was a bit confused on a few points as well until my memory was tweaked.
Quote from: blue66669 on June 15, 2009, 08:11:09 PM
I believe that the rules are good as they stand, only with the post count/time here tweak.
THANK YOU Blue!!!!
There should just be a straightforward vote, by members of the forum. It should be done one of two ways - set up another poll, and accept that there's probably going to be some illegitimate votes, or do it the way it's always been done with people posting their choice. This is the simplest way, IMO. If votes by renmail, committees, debates and what have you are set up, things will get too complicated, and really, there's no reason for that!
You know how the old saying goes, about not pleasing all the people all the time, and that's just the way it's going to be. I'm glad our mods are giving everyone a voice, but it should ultimately come down to the easiest way to carry out the voting.
Quote from: Anna Iram on June 15, 2009, 09:14:02 PM
Quote from: blue66669 on June 15, 2009, 08:11:09 PM
I believe that the reason that rule was outvoted was because of the fact that only a few faires would fall into that time period every year. We would be limited to what we could pick from, if anything.
I believe that the rules are good as they stand, only with the post count/time here tweak.
That's right Blue. There have been alot of great ideas posted in our discussion threads here that were batted around back on the old forum and discarded because they sounded good in theory, but not so much in practice. Unfortunate that we lost those discussion threads when the forum crashed so we'd all be on the same page now and everyone could see how we got to the current rules. I admit I was a bit confused on a few points as well until my memory was tweaked.
WOW, I'm glad the loki didn't erase EVERYTHING up there in mah brain LOLOLOLOL!!!
I do realize that there needs to be some editing done here and there, tweaking of a few things, but what it comes down to is that not everyone is going to be happy with every little thing. I know that some people really want to host it at their faire, and that's whats incredible, we're all so excited to share our homes with each others. It's that people are getting angry and I just...
as I stated elsewhere, I really feel like the point of why everyone is gathering is being forgotten. Remember the family that's at the heart of this, the people that you meet and have yet to meet and the love we all share.
Quote from: Cobaltblu on June 15, 2009, 08:05:58 PM
Her idea obviously has nothing to do with one area of the country or another area or one faire or another faire.
But it does have something to do with the fact that some parts of the country have more people, hence more faires in a smaller location. If you limit the amount of time between faires that hold the gathering, great. But if I have to buy plane tickets to go to each and every one because I live in the area that will never host, the amount of time means nothing, it's still too damn expensive to continue to go to the other side of the country because they get the popular vote, or the vote because they have more people.
It really is pointless to argue the subject from my point of view. After seeing how people conduct themselves on this thread and this subject, I will go out of my way to never attend a Rendevous. This is supposed to be fun, not a exercise in arguing with keyboard commandos.
Viscomte
Sorry that you feel that way, Viscomte.
One of the ideas that the mods are considering is to make sure that regions rotate each year (ie one year only the west will be possible), which would surely make your faire and the other western faires only in competition with each other. I think it's an excellent potential solution (thanks, Lady Renee Buchanan). It's just a fact that most people on this particular forum are from TX. They also have to fly far away any time that a RenDevous is chosen away from Texas and sometimes even travel very far within that vast state.
Back in the day, I actually voted for MD over my own faire, TN (which won that year, with very few members from here, btw), since I wanted to travel. Not everyone wants the faire to be their home faire, some people enjoy adventuring to new locations. Not that I minded that TN won, we all had a great time last year. I'm just offering a different perspective.
The moderators have all been "listening" to everyone's points of view and are trying to come up with some new potential rules with all of them in mind and with all of the faires in mind. Please be patient and you might find that this is not as exclusionary as you seem to be feeling at the moment. And there are many people who may not be putting any of their viewpoints into these threads, you may find that you are judging the entire forum on the few who you find disagreeable.
Quote from: Lady Nicolette on June 16, 2009, 10:47:09 AM
Sorry that you feel that way, Viscomte.
LN
Thanks for the sentiment, but this is supposed to be about fun and enjoying the company of like minded individuals, not fending off nasty remarks made by faceless people who would never speak to another person like that in the flesh. Many years ago I was very active in the sport shooting community and held a high office in that bodies governing board. I went through the years of hate mail and narrow minded keyboard cowboys that are ten feet tall behind a computer screen, but get them face to face and they smile and say all the right things. It was that community and their attitudes that lead me to faire, to find a group of people that enjoyed the same things and spoke the truth no matter what.
I love faire, my faire family and the idea of this board as a safe place for us to gather. But seeing how people react to the Rendevous subject?, no thank you, I will make plans for our faire, visit places like MRF to see friends, and attend TRF to work my brothers gypsy camp and honor his memory. Try to host a Rendevous, or attend one?, sorry, I have more respect for the thing that gives me so much hope and happiness and friendship to bring those kind of negative joss to it.
Hope to see you in AZ
Viscomte
Quote from: Viscomte de Arcadia on June 16, 2009, 11:24:10 AM
Quote from: Lady Nicolette on June 16, 2009, 10:47:09 AM
Sorry that you feel that way, Viscomte.
LN
Thanks for the sentiment, but this is supposed to be about fun and enjoying the company of like minded individuals, not fending off nasty remarks made by faceless people who would never speak to another person like that in the flesh. Many years ago I was very active in the sport shooting community and held a high office in that bodies governing board. I went through the years of hate mail and narrow minded keyboard cowboys that are ten feet tall behind a computer screen, but get them face to face and they smile and say all the right things. It was that community and their attitudes that lead me to faire, to find a group of people that enjoyed the same things and spoke the truth no matter what.
I love faire, my faire family and the idea of this board as a safe place for us to gather. But seeing how people react to the Rendevous subject?, no thank you, I will make plans for our faire, visit places like MRF to see friends, and attend TRF to work my brothers gypsy camp and honor his memory. Try to host a Rendevous, or attend one?, sorry, I have more respect for the thing that gives me so much hope and happiness and friendship to bring those kind of negative joss to it.
Hope to see you in AZ
Viscomte
HEY! You're coming to TRF?!?!?!?
See you in the fall!!!!
Blue
Yep, three times a run.
I work at my brothers gypsy camp, Fourtunes of Valen. We are located at the end of the lane by the Ded Bob stage.
Stop by and say hello!
Viscomte
Quote from: Viscomte de Arcadia on June 16, 2009, 11:24:10 AM
Quote from: Lady Nicolette on June 16, 2009, 10:47:09 AM
Sorry that you feel that way, Viscomte.
but this is supposed to be about fun and enjoying the company of like minded individuals, not fending off nasty remarks made by faceless people who would never speak to another person like that in the flesh.
Where are you seeing this? I've been following this thread pretty closely and I'm not seeing what you're seeing.
A
Read a bit closer brother, feelings are running a bit too high on this subject for my comfort.
I won't spoil my faire fun by being part of a bickering contest.
Viscomte
PLEASE READ!!
I know some of you feel that it's unfair that a section or a state is up for a RenDezvous again. I want you know that while the ideas in this thread are very good, I feel that changing how the faires are chosen at this moment in time is unfair to those that have already stepped forward to say they'll host a RenDezvous. For this year we will leave how the faires are chosen alone but we will change the voting rules to better accommodate newer members or older members that just don't post much. For those that want to keep their votes private we are setting up a dummy account that all the mods can access. I know I said that I would post a new set of rules for you to look over but I thought and talked it over, and as I said before, I feel that changing the rules on how the faire is chosen now would not be fair to any of the faires in the running. As it is the host from AZ have asked to be taken out of the running. We will, however, continue to discuss, and possibly change, how the faires are chosen after this vote. Voting will begin again on June 19, 2009 at midnight and will continue until July 17, 2009 at midnight.
Thank you.
This is the post I was looking for! As a newbee could you review the processes for voting?
unbelievable....
Quote from: LadyJessica on June 16, 2009, 06:36:04 PM
PLEASE READ!!
I know some of you feel that it's unfair that a section or a state is up for a RenDezvous again. I want you know that while the ideas in this thread are very good, I feel that changing how the faires are chosen at this moment in time is unfair to those that have already stepped forward to say they'll host a RenDezvous. For this year we will leave how the faires are chosen alone but we will change the voting rules to better accommodate newer members or older members that just don't post much. For those that want to keep their votes private we are setting up a dummy account that all the mods can access. I know I said that I would post a new set of rules for you to look over but I thought and talked it over, and as I said before, I feel that changing the rules on how the faire is chosen now would not be fair to any of the faires in the running. As it is the host from AZ have asked to be taken out of the running. We will, however, continue to discuss, and possibly change, how the faires are chosen after this vote. Voting will begin again on June 19, 2009 at midnight and will continue until July 17, 2009 at midnight.
First of all, I suppose I should say that I'm very sorry that our desire to host has caused such an uproar. I do wish that the Arizona group would reconsider their bid, mostly because I think that the opportunity to see that faire would be so worth it! We here in Texas want the same thing that all the other groups wanted- we just want to show our faire off and throw everyone one of the best parties of the year! To disqualify not only our state, but maybe even our entire SECTION would have been a loss. It would have taken Scarby out for sure, and maybe even LARF. Which, seeing that AZ was leaving, would have left us only with Sterling. Not that it's a bad thing, but I do like to have choices, and NOT by default.
When voting reopens, I do hope that everyone comes to vote again. Not necessarily for our faire, but just VOTE! Give us your VOICE! Tell us where you want to PARTY!!!
Please know that Lady Jessica has a terribly difficult job in going back over the rules and in trying to come up with a solution that will satisfy the majority.
Again, the mods have all been discussing EVERYONE's input and trying to make sure that it's fair for every faire and that every member has a chance to make their own personal choice, based on what faire they want to and can attend based on finances, timing and desire to participate. If the faire of your choice doesn't win this time, it might in the future.
Please give Lady Jessica the time and support that she needs to do this as fairly and as comprehensively as possible. If you have input that you think would be valuable, please post it in here or renmail her and/or the mods with your suggestions.
And it just gets better, how does one actually get appointed to Court, I mean to be a moderator? Once again, no vote from the membership and the rules just decided by a few. It proves to be unfair but allow it for this year because.....great reasoning and yet, I seem to be the only one that is bothered.
I surrender, the fight is over, long live the Queen.
Quote from: Lairde Guardn MCrack on June 17, 2009, 09:43:01 AM
And it just gets better, how does one actually get appointed to Court, I mean to be a moderator? Once again, no vote from the membership and the rules just decided by a few. It proves to be unfair but allow it for this year because.....great reasoning and yet, I seem to be the only one that is bothered.
I surrender, the fight is over, long live the Queen.
Hon, while I understand your viewpoint on the whole matter, I have to say that your tactics are lacking and making you look bad. There IS a way to state your opinion without coming off like a giant @ss.
Quote from: Lairde Guardn MCrack on June 17, 2009, 09:43:01 AM
I seem to be the only one that is bothered.
Oh lad, you are not the only one bothered, not by a long shot, and you do have a voice brother ... you could never be accused of being silent. Fight the good fight friend.
Know this, Rendevous is still young ... really young! There are a lot of voices here, all want to be heard. I know this may be difficult to see but there is a huge amount of dialog behind the scene and far more passionate than what you guys are airing here.
One thing I know for sure, no matter how this all comes out in the end ...
not everyone here will be satisfied ... will never happen! All we can hope for is that what the end result is is fair and just for all.
YOU MUST CONTINUE TO CONTRIBUTE >>> EVERYONE!!
If memory serves there has been like issues for the past several years, as this forum grows and Rendevous grows than we need to adjust/tweak the rules too. And with any growing comes pains ... growing pains.
This is not about me but I want to relay my story ...
I tried to get Rendevous in MDRF for 4 years and was heartbroken each year we lost out ... when we won the voting last year I was elated. For my homies and for all of you ... you folks will get the opportunity to see my home and I get the opportunity to enjoy all of you here. I love it and it is worth the wait.
Patients people, we will be okay ... stay in the fight ... you may not win, but you voice does count.
Love you brother. Shoot me an email if you will Guardn'.
Here, here, Scotsman. Well spake.
As I am a simple-minded girl and not being much of a political-minded sort, I don't see why we all can't just get along.
Great Scott, we had several people speak up and volunteer to host. I say "huzzah!" to them and thanks for offering to take on such an endeavour!
It seems all we gotta do each year is list thiose who have offered and set up a poll for voting. Make it where only those who voted can see the results after they've cast their vote. Let the current mods do that. Plain & simple. If you're registered on R/F, you should be able to vote. Why can't a newbie vote? They are the oldsters of tomorrow. I myself might have 12 posts here, but have been a rennie for 20 years. Same might be true for the next guy with 1 post.
Why too, do we have to set "rules & regulations" on regions and how often one can host? If it seems the same faire offers to host repeatedly, and no one wants to go again for a while, I'm sure the voting will go another way. Process of natural elimination and active voices will be heard via the poll. It's okay. It wouldn't mean no one likes that particulare faire; it just means everyone would rather go check out another one this year. Faire is faire for Chris'sake! They're all good fun, no?! Honestly, has anyone here ever been to a truly crappy faire and had a truly crappy time whilst there??
I understand the concept of "staying inthe fight" and letting a voice be heard, and you are right, Scotsman; but we don't have to "fight" per se. We need to discuss this as adults and come to a reasonable conclusion. All we're doing here is picking a place to get together and enjoy each other's company in the faire setting we all so dearly love.
How hard can this be people, for Pete's sake?
Rarely do I speak up in this manner, and I mean no offense to anyone, if any has been taken.
I'd vote for 'em all and go to 'em all, if I could.
::steps off her soap box::
Thanks.
Quote from: Scotsman on June 17, 2009, 10:20:38 AM
Know this, Rendevous is still young ... really young! There are a lot of voices here, all want to be heard. I know this may be difficult to see but there is a huge amount of dialog behind the scene and far more passionate than what you guys are airing here.
One thing I know for sure, no matter how this all comes out in the end ... not everyone here will be satisfied ... will never happen! All we can hope for is that what the end result is is fair and just for all.
YOU MUST CONTINUE TO CONTRIBUTE >>> EVERYONE!!
If memory serves there has been like issues for the past several years, as this forum grows and Rendevous grows than we need to adjust/tweak the rules too. And with any growing comes pains ... growing pains.
Well said, Scotsman.
While many of these issues have been hashed out in the past, there are many of us who weren't here yet to participate in those discussions, and I appreciate the opportunity to 'throw my two cents in'
I think that the changes being made to the (individual) voting eligibility and procedures are reasonable, and I agree with the mods that keeping the Faire selection/eligibility rules
FOR NOW makes sense, to allow for planning to begin for wherever the next RenDezvous will be and whomever will be hosting (and attending) to begin preparing.
I don't think anyone disagrees that the process needs to be re-tooled, especially given the current climate on the boards, and a bit of time before revisiting this issue may be what's needed. I'll be glad to get back to the business at hand for the moment, and working toward some sort of amicable resolution for future events.
Quote from: ~pixie~ on June 17, 2009, 11:13:23 AM
If you're registered on R/F, you should be able to vote. Why can't a newbie vote? They are the oldsters of tomorrow. I myself might have 12 posts here, but have been a rennie for 20 years. Same might be true for the next guy with 1 post.
Thank you lass.
With all rule books there are people out there who want to break the book, so to speak.
All the rules that have been made or discussed thus far are because others have looked for ways to tilt the balance.
If memory serves the reason for the thread count restrictions is because some folks were setting up "ghost" accounts to stack the vote count to their favor.
It is really hard for the Admins to track these things sometimes so restrictions were set to prevent people from bending things. It really is too bad, but it is like a lock on your front door ... it only keeps honest people out. Rule books are not much different.
As you can see, when you try to make rules for something that is fun, it inevitable will tick others off.
This is make-believe people ... keep it fun.
Hear me now, regardless of where Rendevous ends up, I will be there with kilt on. You all have my support.
Ahh, yes. You are so right. Good point. Again, I don't think in those terms and am often vulnerable to those who would want to "cheat". :: sigh ::
Indeed, I'll be there as well. Glass in hand, song in heart, kilts in sight :o and good friends all around.
First, I'd like to thank Lady Jessica for what has turned out to be a thankless job! You must have your head spinning with doing so much reading and trying to figure things out, and you do it in an elegant manner with a lot of class (I know I'd probably be banging heads together at this point, lol).
OK, one more suggestion. This one is the simplest yet.
You have 4 faires in the running now (come on, AZ, jump back in!). Put all of them in the hat, let our most wonderful Queen of Everything put her hand in and pick one. That way - no vote manipulations, and I don't mean the Mods would do that, what I mean is no one would get "spam" renmails to vote for someone's faire. Sure, some people would be unhappy, but there will always be unhappy people. And Queen Bonnie is such a sweetheart, whatever she picks out would be fine with 99.9% of everybody.
Then in the future, let there be the 7 regions. Ask each region to sponsor a RenDezvous for that year (again, rotating states, so no one state dominates). Put the 7 faires in a hat, Queen Bonnie draws, and Voila! (my name's not Renee for nothing) we have a RenDezvous.
It doesn't get any easier than that, and if Lady Jessica and the others keep getting beat up over this, then nobody will want to do the organizing for the choice of location, and we won't have any!
Lots of people liked my first post, and hopefully, lots will like this one. This girl just wants ta have fun!
Lairde, I echo Scotsman's sentiment. I *like* that you are outspoken and will stand up and say what others might not. Not so fond of the anti mod sentiments... ;D but I guess you have to take the bitter with the sweet sometimes. Don't be down hearted.
Same for everyone. I've been stomping my feet too over what I think should or shouldn't be. Not sure who I'll vote for now that my first pick is taking a step back. Can't blame you two either I guess.
Blue, it wasn't the fact that Scarby stepped up that caused an upset. You all in Texas are so lucky to have two such great faires and if the vote goes to you this time around it'll be a blast. As would Sterling and/or Larf. It's nobodys fault. Alot happened around here since the last vote and we just need to get back on the same page and my goodness...I wouldn't want the job of sorting through all this in order to put it to a vote. That could take weeks more. I guess I'd rather see us take one step back and focus on the Rendevous we *do* have coming up..in Maryland! Let's put this all to the side for now and think about the vote when we/you all return from Labor Day weekend. That would be my wish anyway. Perhaps the Rendevous will give us all the chance to reconnect and remember why we do this silly faire thing.
My half cents worth....
Quote from: Lady Renee Buchanan on June 17, 2009, 05:51:27 PM
You have 4 faires in the running now (come on, AZ, jump back in!).
LRB
I have sent a pm to Lady Jessica informing her that we, as a community met and discussed the matter and would like to be included on this years ballot for Rendevous. I know we have a snowballs chance in Hell of winning (darn Scarby!), but we need to complete the process to show that the system works.
Hope to see you in AZ sometime.
Viscomte
Quote from: Scotsman on June 17, 2009, 11:24:27 AM
This is make-believe people ... keep it fun
FINALLY, words of wisdom! Where do I get the t-shirt? :)
I'd like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that if your faire doesn't get Rendezvous the stars won't fall out of the sky and the world as we know it won't cease to exist. Life goes on. The fact of the matter is, it's an invasion just like any other invasion, only it's the official R/F gathering. There will be gatherings and plenty of fun to be had at other faires, it's not like everyone else will be left out in the cold.
Please, lets throw
constructive criticism out there and cut the complaints and the drama. The system isn't perfect, but the moderators are working on it. Kudos to them, especially to Lady Jessica, for their patience and willingness to listen to the concerns of fellow forum members.
Thanks to everyone deciding to make peace!
Glad Az is still in the running.
Quote from: Viscomte de Arcadia on June 17, 2009, 07:54:02 PM
as a community met and discussed the matter and would like to be included on this years ballot for Rendevous
MOST EXCELLENT!
Tis good news indeed. Glad you guys are back in the fight ... God knows I know how you feel, it took 4 years to get Rendevous in MD. If at first you don't succeed ... drink more and try a fourth time! ;D
and then drink to celebrate.
I just don't get what all the caterwalling is about. We offered to host at LARF; we were defeated; we'll get over it. Will I go to the next Rendevoux? Yes, if it is at a time I can get away from work and I can afford it. Does it matter where it is? No!
Am I going to Maryland Rendevoux? No, because I can't get time off from work. Not because I have anything against anyone or because I like this faire better than that faire.
Whatever changes ya'll decide to make to the rules, just make sure they are clear. Personally I'd like there to be 7 Rendevouxs per year, one for each region.
This is why I don't have that many posts. There's just too much drama.
LARF hasn't lost yet hon. The voting will being again tomorrow at midnight. ;D ;) :D
WAIT!!!! It's only "make believe"?
Scotsmannnn, say it aint so!! :o
Dang......... :P LMAO!!!
I am glad things are getting sorted out. I also want to thank Lady Jessica, for her hard work. It is a 'thankless' task, to be sure!
Az., glad you folks are back in the running! :D
I wish all the faires the best of luck and as Scotsman has stated, if you don't get it this time around, try again!!! ;D
irish :)
Quote from: irish on June 18, 2009, 08:35:26 PM
WAIT!!!! It's only "make believe"?
I also want to thank Lady Jessica, for her hard work. It is a 'thankless' task, to be sure!
Wanna second this, all the stress and work falls on Jess' shoulders. We love ya for all the hard work and couldn't do it without you babe! :-* :-* :-*
I've chose not to chirp in on the heated discussion, because I can argue at work...the exact thing I look to faire to get away from. Instead I'd would just like to make a humble suggestion based on a few other ideas:
first: faires put their name in the running as they do now
then open voting to "anyone" regardless of the time they've been here (set a minimum vote count to qualify..we all want a big turn out)
then take say the top 4-5 qualified faires
put those faires in a hat and have an unbiased moderator draw the name to select the host
Quote from: Comté de Gilbert on June 19, 2009, 07:49:55 PM
I've chose not to chirp in on the heated discussion, because I can argue at work...the exact thing I look to faire to get away from. Instead I'd would just like to make a humble suggestion based on a few other ideas:
first: faires put their name in the running as they do now
then open voting to "anyone" regardless of the time they've been here (set a minimum vote count to qualify..we all want a big turn out)
then take say the top 4-5 qualified faires
put those faires in a hat and have an unbiased moderator draw the name to select the host
Didn't I just say that?
Maybe you did....
just that the Comte had another way of saying it....that's okay isn't it?
AZRF is just fine with everything that has been accomplished. We are not pulling out of the running per se...we conceded to the original vote count.
Huzzah to all the Faires in the running.
If you did, I'm very sorry, I just couldn't bring myself to read through the whole thread. It saddened me to see such great people argueing over something that should be nothing but fun for all of us.
Well, you know the saying: Great minds think alike!
The reason I was kidding you was cause I had just posted it about 5 or 6 posts above. Nothing mean intended.
Hopefully, all the members will vote this time, a faire will be picked, and then everyone can start enjoying themselves at their faires again (meaning people like me, whose faire season is just beginning in a few weeks, I realize some people's season is over already).
I did have a question about the voting process, and thought this thread was where it should be posted, instead of the actual voting thread. For those that choose to vote anonymously, can the mods post every so often something like,
Anon. Votes for Scarby to this point: #
Anon. Votes for Stirling to this point: #
Anon. Votes for Arizona to this point: #
Anon. Votes for Louisiana to this point: #
And then the next time it's updated, instead of repeating those numbers above, could it be something like:
Anon. Votes for Scarby from last count: # etc, etc.
That way, everybody can keep up with how the votes are going. I would like to know that, and maybe others would, too. Just a thought.
Quote from: Comté de Gilbert on June 20, 2009, 09:55:38 AM
If you did, I'm very sorry, I just couldn't bring myself to read through the whole thread. It saddened me to see such great people argueing over something that should be nothing but fun for all of us.
Amen, The reason for RenDevous after all is to SHARE our of love of faire, not divide us.
I too would like to extend a HUGE thank you to Lady Jessica for everything you do for us. Thank you!!!
I must agree, Hip-Hip-Huzza To Lady Jessica! Thank you for all the work you do for ALL of us!
Quote from: renfairephotog on June 20, 2009, 11:08:58 AM
Quote from: Comté de Gilbert on June 20, 2009, 09:55:38 AM
If you did, I'm very sorry, I just couldn't bring myself to read through the whole thread. It saddened me to see such great people argueing over something that should be nothing but fun for all of us.
Amen, The reason for RenDevous after all is to SHARE our of love of faire, not divide us.
Hey...didn't I already say that? ;D ;D ;D
Now that the vote for 2010 is almost over and 2009 seems to be going along very nicely on the way to Maryland. Can we now sit down and come up with a set of rules and get them voted on for the future.
2006 Texas
2007 Minnesota
2008 Tennessee
2009 Maryland
2010 Texas
So far Rendevous has been represented by the Southwest Region twice, Midwest, Southeast and East. That leaves Northeast, West and Northwest that have not hosted an event.
Now that the vote is final, can the discussions on getting a complete member voted set of rules for the future begin so that we can have them voted on before we start the 2011 process. As I have said before, I think it is only fair that the Membership vote on the rules that we use for the Rendevous, and if the current rules are the ones that are voted in, then I am fine with the rules. Until that vote I will continue to argue as to the fairness of the ones we have.
These are the rules and regulations as they stand now:
Faires
1.The U.S. will be split into 7 sections:
a.Northeast: Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York
b.East: Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, Virginia, West Virginia
c.Southeast: Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi
d.Midwest: Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa
e.Southwest: Kansas, Missouri, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico
f.West: California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado
g.Northwest: Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska
2.A faire cannot be considered again for ten years or until the section has been chosen twice.
3.A section cannot be considered for four years. (In other words in 2010 the Southwest section can be in the running but Texas Renaissance Festival cannot be in the running until 2016.)
4.On the slightest off chance that a faire should decide to close it's gates after it has been chosen the faire in 2nd place will get the RenDezvous.
Planning Committee
1.On May 1st, LadyJessica will post what faires are open for volunteers to come forward to say that they would like to plan a RenDezvous.
2.Everyone will have one month in which to announce that they'd like to plan a RenDezvous.
3.In order to be in the running for the RenDezvous the faire must have at least two people to plan the gathering.
Voting
1.On June 1st, LadyJessica will post which faires are in the running for the RenDezvous.
2.A members' vote will only count if they were a member before June 1st of that year and have at least 25 posts.
3.Everyone will have one month in which to place his or her vote.
4.Each member has one vote and one vote only.
5.For that vote to count the member must make the vote themselves. You cannot ask someone to make it for you.
6.Please keep the voting thread to votes only.
7. Votes must be made in the thread. You can not Renmail your vote.
Campaigning
1.After we know which faires are in the running we ask that each person planning the gathering to write up a paragraph or two about why we should choose their faire and to give us general information about the faire; i.e. times, dates, prices, camping, etc. You can do a write up as a group.
2.These paragraphs will be sent to LadyJessica who will post the paragraph along with who wrote it under one thread, which will remain locked.
3.If you have any general questions about what someone has said please Renmail that person and ask them.
4.There will be no why-my-faire-is-better-than-your-faire politics. If the Mods start to see these posts they will be deleted.
5.If you want to have more people vote for your faire you may post reminders within said faire's section in the forum.
1st Proposed rule change under "Faire"
No section that has already hosted a rendevous or is scheduled to host a rendevous will be considered again until all other sections have had a rendevous or a section that has not had a rendevous fails to propose a faire for selection.
example: This would mean that only the Northwest, West and Northeast regions could offer to host the 2011 Rendevous. Then the vote would be held from the proposed faires from those regions.
If for some reason we fail to get a proposed faire from an area that has not already hosted a rendevous, then the process will be open to the area from the furthest date that held the Rendevous
example: If for some reason Northwest, West and Northeast all fail to offer to host the 2011 Rendevous, then the offer would be open to the Midwest since it is the furthest area to host a rendevous from the current or proposed.
(this rule will ensure that each section of the country will get a fair shot at hosting the rendevous)
2nd Proposed rule change under "Faire"
A state within a section that has already held a rendevous, will not be eligible to run again until at least one other faire from another state in that section has hosted a rendevoux or if no other state from a section proposes to host a rendevous and the section is eligible, then the same state can propose a faire.
Example: When the Midwest becomes eligible again, the State of Minnesota would not be eligible again until at least one other state in that region (Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Wisconsin, or Iowa) has hosted a rendevoux
(this rule will ensure that more states get a fair shot a hosting a rendevous)
3nd Proposed rule change under "Faire"
The following two rules be deleted
2.A faire cannot be considered again for ten years or until the section has been chosen twice.
3.A section cannot be considered for four years. (In other words in 2010 the Southwest section can be in the running but Texas Renaissance Festival cannot be in the running until 2016.)
Under the current rules, Texas can be in the running again in 2015 and although it says that TRF cannot run til 2016, it would be eligible in 2015 because of the rule the section has been chosen twice. My arguement is still that a section should not be chosen again until all other sections have had a shot at hosting the Rendevous. Also there are other states in that region (Kansas, Missouri, Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico) that should have the opportunity to host an event.
Under proposed rule change #2, both Scarby and TRF would be eligible after at least one other state from that area has held a Rendevous but it would be a few years.
Now that MD is over and Scarby is already elected to host the next one, will the "Mods" now consider it time to discuss the rules and proposed changes, formalizing proposals and finally letting the "membership" vote on them and then make one set of Official rules that will not change every year depending on the whims of a few individuals.
We now have time to get this all done and before we need to start deciding where 2011 will be.
Thanks, Lairde. Will bring this back up and hopefully we'll get some sort of answers.
This is in my wheelhouse now. I'll work with Deadbishop to simplify selecting great faires for Rendezvous.
Many thanks to Lady Jessica for her work serving our community.
John
972-259-8081
Somehow I thought simplify meant the selection process would become fair.
Back to the Southwest for a third time ?
WHAT HAPPENED ?
I'd say it's all in how you interpret what was said. John has got the wheel and he and DB simplified the process by making this years choice. The West has never had a Rendezvous and Colorado is excited to throw the party. Now, instead of months of dragged out drama over voting like last year we can all move forward to looking forward to a great gathering. Hopefully next year we will have even more great faires knocking at Johns wheelhouse door and asking for the chance to take center stage.
*Anna lifts her mug to the forum* To FUN!
Those of you who are puzzled, please look above and follow DB's link to the final posting from last year. This will be the coming into the 6th RenDevous and those who have been around for all of them know that there has always been contention of some sort each time. It has seemed as if no matter what determination is used, someone is unhappy, or unhappy about a portion of the rules, which leads to lengthy back and forth in interpreting and reinterpreting the rules. This is probably the simplest solution, and though it's not democratic, I have faith that John and DB will fairly move the Rendevous' around the country from here on out. It's true that the West hasn't won previously and Colorado is a wonderful Faire with many forum members and they have enough willing to host for it to make sense. Let's all get back to what this place is about, have fun, enjoy meeting other folk who love Faire and spread information and knowledge about topics relating to Faire and even common interests outside of Faire. I'm hoping I can make it to Colorado, I lived there for five years and it's a great place!
Quote from: Lady Nicolette on May 11, 2010, 10:19:41 AM
It's true that the West hasn't won previously and Colorado is a wonderful Faire with many forum members and they have enough willing to host for it to make sense.
John and Steve have resolved the divisiveness issues. Being on the West Coast, though, I'm not too sure that I'd call Colorado "West". I'll agree that it's definitely further west than Maryland. But, then, I grew up in Nebraska and could never understand how Illinois was considered to be the Midwest. :)
I have emailed Steve that I do have contact information for RPFS management so that if he and John wish to consider RPFS at some point in the future, they'll be able to deal directly with those who can negotiate.
As for me, I live in Florida and I do NOT consider Florida the South... ;D... that's Georgia and Alabama for goodness sake! Geesh!
I think Jessica and DB and John were trying their best to divide the faires as best as possible with some slight adjustments being made here and there to make the playing field more even.
Yeah...what's this forum coming to...... :'( :D
Despite the arguing, bickering, and all that, the thing about Rendezvous that made it special is that we all had a say in where it was gonna be.
Quote from: Lord Dragonspyre on May 11, 2010, 02:03:03 PM
Despite the arguing, bickering, and all that, the thing about Rendezvous that made it special is that we all had a say in where it was gonna be.
I couldn't agree more! but I also understand why the decision was made to have John and DB pick..
The "new" way does take away from the event somewhat in my opinion.. I always thought it was nice to hear something about the faires in the running, and choose based on that.. I fear that going forward we may find ourselves with a Rendezvous at a faire that is really not that interested in hosting one.. I could be wrong though.. There is generally a lot more going on behind the scenes then we are aware of..
I attended the first Rendezvous..gosh..was it really six years ago!? Anyway...I was new to the forum, but I'm not aware of there having been any rules or faire regions or voting. It was just an idea of a forum wide gathering which snowballed into a Rendezvous. We were given a party. It was awesome. It was fun. So far that's the only Rendezvous I've attended. Partly because of timing and financing, but partly also because of all the politics that surrounded the selection process.
As has been said elsewhere I think John and DB have put and will put alot of thought into where each Rendezvous will be. Certainly based on which faire is excited to host us, and which faire will be the most exciting for us to visit. Have faith guys. Try it on for size.
Quote from: Anna Iram on May 11, 2010, 02:33:46 PM
As has been said elsewhere I think John and DB have put and will put alot of thought into where each Rendezvous will be. Certainly based on which faire is excited to host us, and which faire will be the most exciting for us to visit. Have faith guys. Try it on for size.
I can get jiggy with that, homey. (Oops, sorry, wrong accent.)
LOL. Thanks Iain, now I have that song stuck in my head. :)
Quote from: Muffin on May 11, 2010, 02:14:58 PM
Quote from: Lord Dragonspyre on May 11, 2010, 02:03:03 PM
Despite the arguing, bickering, and all that, the thing about Rendezvous that made it special is that we all had a say in where it was gonna be.
I couldn't agree more! but I also understand why the decision was made to have John and DB pick..
The "new" way does take away from the event somewhat in my opinion.. I always thought it was nice to hear something about the faires in the running, and choose based on that.. I fear that going forward we may find ourselves with a Rendezvous at a faire that is really not that interested in hosting one.. I could be wrong though.. There is generally a lot more going on behind the scenes then we are aware of..
I had this fear too, when I first heard of the possibility of this decision being made. But, I think John and DB contacted and communicated with some people that were interested in hosting.
In the future, maybe faires interested in hosting a Rendezvous could have an appointed person put a bid of some type to the admins.
While the voting was a democratic way of things, unfortunately, the amount of drama and stress that went into the process was more than it should have, because some people think their opinions should have counted more than others and when they didn't get what they wanted, they fought about it. The system needed to be revamped so here's a solution. I'm all for making things easier on all parties involved. If this doesn't work out, we'll figure something else out.
Hopefully people can get back to the core idea of this that, We all just want to have fun, meet people from across the US, and we all just want together and share our love of faire.
The system needed to be revamped so here's a solution. I'm all for making things easier on all parties involved.
If this doesn't work out, we'll figure something else out.
Maybe so but the last most or all of the R/F membership knew was it was going to be reviewed, which was fine. But
i think we all expected to hear what the outcome was, if it was that there was a new way to let it be known that
you need to give person X or Y even a slight hint that you may be thinking of hosting for the upcomming year
i doubt it would be an issue, Or that the wants and or desires of the people who go to rendevouse will no longer
be considered and a choice would be made for them, that would have had to been excepted i guess. We all
have great pride in our home faires as shown by the enthusiasm expressed in past years, either by campaigning
drama, squabbles or volunteering to host and giving up time to see it through. It is impossible to please everyone
all the time, but if there are rules/guidelines that have been made public, and the public is not informed of
changes what are we left to believe or expect, basically the same as the previous year.
If the rendevouse fiare is to be chosen for us then i would assume there would not be a problem with the fairs
to be chosen and posted for the next 3 or 4 years so we all can have ample time to save money, make arrangements
or or whatever might be involved.
Kinda feel like the little girl in that add that was asked if she wanted to ride the bike, but then was told she
could only ride it within the 4 x 3 foot square.
While I agree the system needed tweeking, I also have to agree with Ozium that some warning about the new method would have been appropriate and appreciated. I was at Scarborough and not a word was heard about changes.
Unfortunately, some of us who were considering a run for the nomination, were still sitting at home waiting for the beginning of May for the process to begin. Instead, we are faced with the declaration that the process is already over and CORF will hold the 2011 event. Fine, I'll enjoy Colorado, its a new fair for me and I could sit and just look at the Rockies all day. I'm looking forward to 2011.
BUT...now the responsibility falls on John and DB to clearly announce their intentions for future years and how is the membership to communicate their desire to host the 2012 and future events. I'm a simply friar, unlike my fellow monks from the Orient I never went in for that mind reading and transmitting mental wave stuff. I'm going to need a push in the right direction.
I completely agree with you Hibernian... I had no idea that faires could be submit yet let alone that a decision had been made. A clear announcement of when submitals needs to be sent and what faire is selected definitely needs to be communicated.
2006 Texas
2007 Minnesota
2008 Tennessee
2009 Maryland
2010 Texas
2011 Colorodo
2012 ? We all wait patiently....
Quote from: Lairde Guardn MCrack on November 02, 2011, 11:31:11 PM
2006 Texas
2007 Minnesota
2008 Tennessee
2009 Maryland
2010 Texas
2011 Colorodo
2012 ? We all wait patiently....
Reading Laird's listing, the Midwest hasn't had a RenDezvous since 2007 in Minnesota. Next year will make it 5 years. I see that Maryland held the RenDezvous in 2009, which will only be 3 years ago. It used to be that a section couldn't have a second RenDezvous within 5 years of the last one in that area if there was someone in a different section who was willing to host one, so I'm hoping that Bristol will be chosen for RenDezvous 2012.