Yesterday when I attended the faire, I didn't see Tullamore or the Limey Birds there at all. Are they absent this season?
I saw this posted on their website (I hope Bunnie is well soon!!!):
Dear Friends & Fanmily;
The Limeybirds are officially on Hiatus for the remainder of 2009.
Many of you know that Bunnie's health has been seriously declining the past year, and is now officially under Doctors' orders to rest and recuperate.
(Which when asked if resting and recuperating included running amuck in forests in a corset harassing people, the Dr answered with a raised eyebrow and in a very unamused voice answered "No. It does not.")
But Don't worry! We'll keep in touch! We're around on all our sitesYou can still follow us on Twitter, because the sillyness truly never ends, especially offstage.
The Limeybirds look forward to resuming the insanity with our 2010 season starting at Fort Myers Medieval Faire in just a few months!
aww, that's a shame. But what about Tullamore, with whom they shared a stage? And who also headed off the Pub Sing in previous years. There was some serious talent in those people.
I second that motion. Tullamore is the best band at most of the festivals I visit. Without them, I'm not as motivated to make the drive from Oklahoma. Was Jem Moore back at KCRF? He's a great hammered dulcimer player.
Quote from: Finvarra on September 08, 2009, 03:15:21 PM
There are several acts that aren't returning this year. The Robin Hood show on the Swill Pond did not return either which I believe was also related to the health of one of the cast. I didn't see Queen's Gambit this past weekend either. The Musical Blades are back though.
i talk to one of the members of mental pause on a regular basis on facebook and it would appear mental pause is out this year.
too bad about the swill pond show. but the good thing about shows missing is it gives you a chance to check out other shows you would have otherwise not checked out. anything new this season?? i am hoping necessary violence on the 3 lions has at least changed the act slightly, after watching the same show 4 years running, it is old. perhaps the joust has FINALLY changed????? but, i can count on the pub sing and chess to be the highlights of my day.
Quote from: Finvarra on September 09, 2009, 09:16:31 PM
Yes, Mental Pause is back. "necessary violence"? Do you mean Get Shrewed? I think the joust is still being done by Noble Cause, but I didn't recognize the jousters here last weekend. Unfortunately, we don't get to see the stage acts. I can tell you who may or may not be there, but don't get to see the shows except in passing.
I hope you enjoy chess match this year. There are some pretty funny bits in it and I don't just say that cuz I'm in it. ;)
mental pause is back? thats odd, several of the girls who had been doing it are not doing it this season. must somehow be retooled. yes, i am talking about get shrewed. it replaced the fickle biches on that stage, with, one of the original fickle biches. and much like that act, it is getting old. hasnt changed in what, 4-5 years now??
the joust hasnt changed one bit, not even slightly, since 2001. i would hope eventually they fix their joust. it is an embarassment compared to other faires at this point.
now chess, oh baby. i cannot wait. always an amazing time. and always soooooooo darn funny.!!!!! cannot wait to see that and the pub sing in october.
i agree, i have always felt KCRF's joust is a little lacking... for supposed warriors, those knights really do run their mouths too much. But yes, Mental Pause is back in town, they were at pub sing last weekend. And Musical Blades, as you mentioned. I remember witnessing Chuey's return at a certain pub sing show last season, it was wonderful. It also didn't hit me until after I got home that I hadn't seen Queen's Gambit. It's a shame... their fiddler is a regular on these forums, maybe she can shed some light as to where they've gone.
There are several acts I certainly hope to see again in the coming years. Including a small, jolly little irish bard band called Tartan, whom I haven't seen since 2005, but I hope they decide to return. Also, I've heard several people ask about Pog Mo Thon. They were personal friends of mine and my brother, and all I can say is that they've taken a turn in their style to more Flogging Molly-esque irish punk rather than their traditional musings, so I don't know if renfaires are in their future plans anymore or not.
I do love the joust. It is always one of my favorite parts. But I think that is more for the charging at each other with lances than the actual show. It is my sis first fair. We will definally be attending the joust.
Quote from: TKM on September 09, 2009, 09:41:41 PM
i agree, i have always felt KCRF's joust is a little lacking... for supposed warriors, those knights really do run their mouths too much. But yes, Mental Pause is back in town, they were at pub sing last weekend. And Musical Blades, as you mentioned. I remember witnessing Chuey's return at a certain pub sing show last season, it was wonderful. It also didn't hit me until after I got home that I hadn't seen Queen's Gambit. It's a shame... their fiddler is a regular on these forums, maybe she can shed some light as to where they've gone.
There are several acts I certainly hope to see again in the coming years. Including a small, jolly little irish bard band called Tartan, whom I haven't seen since 2005, but I hope they decide to return. Also, I've heard several people ask about Pog Mo Thon. They were personal friends of mine and my brother, and all I can say is that they've taken a turn in their style to more Flogging Molly-esque irish punk rather than their traditional musings, so I don't know if renfaires are in their future plans anymore or not.
Reporting in, as requested...
No, Queen's Gambit is not at KCRF this year, nor is Tullamore, nor any of the others that have been mentioned. And, yes, several of the acts that *are* there have been recast and/or scaled back.
The short answer is that KCRF decided that they did not have the money for us (and others). The longer answer is that every act was given contract terms that resulted in some form of pay cut. :(
For those of us who travel in from out of town each weekend, the cut was too steep; we love the faires, and we adore our fans, but, with travel costs continuing to climb, things reached a point this year where we would have had to pay out our own money just to come and perform. That is not acceptable from a professional performer POV, especially when the event in question is owned and operated by a for-profit corporation (which KCRF is, and has been for more than 10 years).
The good news, however, is that Queen's Gambit (http://www.queens-gambit.com), along with 3 Pints Gone and others, is appearing this season at the St. Louis Pirate Festival (http://www.stlpiratefest.com), in Wentzville, MO. We had a great opening weekend there; attendance was a bit sparse, but we saw plenty of familiar faces and met a lot of new friends (and made them fans as well). At least a few of our long-time fans made a point of coming over to the other side of Missouri this past weekend, and others have already indicated that they will be making that trip during the remaining two weekends of the Festival.
Rumor has it that even Tullamore may make an appearance during the last weekend of the Pirate Festival. So come on over to Wentzville and say hello. We'd love to see a lot of you over there.
Oh, and QG has two fiddlers now - I'm the one with the white hair.
Lady N
Quote from: Finvarra on September 08, 2009, 03:15:21 PM
There are several acts that aren't returning this year. [...] I didn't see Queen's Gambit this past weekend either.
No, I am sorry to say that we are not at KCRF this season. See my reply elsewhere in this thread for more information about that situation.
However, you
can find us on the other side of Missouri, in Wentzville, MO, at the St. Louis Pirate Festival (http://www.stlpiratefest.com), all three weekends. We share a stage with 3 Pints Gone, and rumor has it that Tullamore will be joining all of us over there on the last weekend. Come see the Monsters of Celtic Music!
Lady N
Quote from: LadyNiniane on September 14, 2009, 05:46:19 PM
Reporting in, as requested...
The short answer is that KCRF decided that they did not have the money for us (and others). The longer answer is that every act was given contract terms that resulted in some form of pay cut. :(
For those of us who travel in from out of town each weekend, the cut was too steep; we love the faires, and we adore our fans, but, with travel costs continuing to climb, things reached a point this year where we would have had to pay out our own money just to come and perform. That is not acceptable from a professional performer POV, especially when the event in question is owned and operated by a for-profit corporation (which KCRF is, and has been for more than 10 years).
Oh, and QG has two fiddlers now - I'm the one with the white hair.
Lady N
Not all groups who have performed at KCRF for years (like my group) even garnered a response to their submitted proposals/applications. Yes, travel expenses have gone up and when you talk 8-9 hours round trip EACH weekend for 7 weekends - that's an astronomical price to work a dearly loved festival for complimentary tickets and food coupon booklets. For some of us; we reached the point of paying out of our pockets years ago and have decided that while we will apply each year in the hopes that the show hires a better CPA; we do not hold our breaths that we'll be brought back home. You simply cannot payout that kind of expense in exchange for peanuts and make the numbers jive at the end of the year (Uncle Sam frowns on that type of payment system very badly :o) ).
Same goes for us with other out-of-state shows - they just aren't willing to pay what is necessary to travel to and from their events any more. Better to stay close to home and work local festivals/faires and do private shows than be hung out to dry by out-of-state festivals/faires that lack the professionalism to even return phone calls and e-mails.
Maybe one of these days the economy will turn around so that the trickle down effect is better for performers again; espeically non-music performers.
My tuppence.
Emerald
common sense in large doses has largely been absent from the KCRF longtime performers for dare i say a long time now in some cases. in previous comments, i see there is some common sense. the KCRF is like all other faires around the country. in the 1970's, 1980's, and 1990's, they were just soooo damned lucky in terms of keeping acts, being able to pay them in some cases, it was just soo different. the scope of finances changed radically in the last 15 years for festivals, particlarly KCRF.
how many of you went to KCRF in the 1980's and 1990's?? well I DID!! do you remember what we passed by near the fair grounds? nothing. miles and miles of nothing. the main roads that led to the faire and then sandstone were so full of holes and cracks, barely paved. that land is valuable as all hell now. costs a ton more money to lease that land from wyco and the unified goverment. a TON MORE MONEY. remember the lease fight 7 years ago?? KCRF almost picked up stakes and moved entirely. between the rising cost of that land, the rising cost of doing business ( ummmm, almost all acts that perform there expect more money than they once did ) the fact that there are way more acts at the festival than there were 10-15 years ago, i mean, it all adds up folks. and that adds up to less and less money to pay the help.
it is sad, sad indeed. but not just a KCRF issue. i live in pittsburgh, pennsylvania nowadays. and i attend the pennsylvania renaissance faire annually. and their BEST ACT, the tartan terrors, feel free to look em' up, www.tartanterrors.com, lost their annual show at the faire. their largest stage there, the globe theater, seats about 2,000, is where the tartan terrors performed each day. and guess what.............they didnt bring back the terrors back this season. globe always packed daily for the terrors shows. one of my main reasons that i love going there. they are huge performers out this way. and they lost their PARF gig this season. not only a KCRF issue, folks.
KCRF does a great job with what they have. maestro, the GM, the rest of the management team does a fine job working with what they have. and i think anyone that badmouths them for not paying the help enough, dosnt understand basic finances. not one bit. and the rising costs associated with doing business. not that i too dont miss some of the acts.
makes me wish my friends and i could actually find the time to get our act together; we've been wanting to do a small little celtic bard band at kcrf for the past few years now... and us being local, young, and just wanting the chance to do something, wouldn't care much about the finances at all if we all had day jobs. but those are hard to come by as well. but, i believe things will start looking up soon, for the faire and the rest of the world.
and you're not joking about the land around kcrf. my mom was interested in leasing some space around there from wyco land, and DAMN it's unbelievable what they expect to get out of that.
Quote from: kcdcchef on September 21, 2009, 01:04:27 PM
KCRF does a great job with what they have. maestro, the GM, the rest of the management team does a fine job working with what they have. and i think anyone that badmouths them for not paying the help enough, dosnt understand basic finances. not one bit. and the rising costs associated with doing business. not that i too dont miss some of the acts.
KCDCChef,
Allow me, as a business owner and operator, who has done street characters, visiting cast, stage show, etc, etc, etc, at KCRF to agree to disagree with you. Especially in light of KCRF being a corporate faire - it's sister faire being Minnesota and the corp's headquarters being Shakopee, Mn.
Your statement of "not paying the help enough ..." rankles me just a tad in that my employees have not received a real paycheck since 2004! Since then, we've been one of the stupid groups that have worked for complimentary tickets, lodging, tips, and merchandise, and until the soup kitchen went under/left/had to close/whatever, 1 meal per actress, per day. In recent years/seasons, we didn't even rate food ticket booklets for our 1 meal per day. This after driving 4-6 hours (depending on where the actress lives) one way each weekend for 5-7 weekends. No, we've never been one of those groups that have had the leisure of staying in a motel/hotel during the week between weekends and being right close and we never will due to our mundane jobs - but that is our choice. Does that mean we deserve to work for peanuts while other acts, regardless of genre, draw real monetary paychecks? That would be a big, fat, NAY!
Having also had the privilege of working with several faires over the years in many behind-the-scenes capacities; I also realize that you need at least 1 headlining act to hold your audience. And if it is a returning favorite - even better. But you should then fill out your stages with other acts that give you a good balance and choice of genres, forms, and talent. There should be an attempt at equality among the acts ... where possible! Using the excuse of "the economy is killing us so we're going to chop our nose off to spite our faces" (i.e., cutting acts that you know and have worked with, downsizing your budget to nothing, getting rid of familiar faces/shows, etc) is bad form. If you are running a business, you know you are in it for the long haul; the good times and the bad times. You should have a sound business plan in place to get you through the lean times as well as the good. And most importantly - you must be willing to live by the adage of "You must spend money to make money" and be willing to do so with a level head.
So yes, for those of us who have worked KCRF in the rain, the sleet, the snow, the god awful heat and done so for no paycheck ... we so deserve a paycheck and not just a half-arsed compensation package that doesn't begin to cover the gasoline expenditure of each weekend. Are any of us who do this going to get rich and be able to pay our bills each month with ease? No. Do we want to at least break even for each weekend we are out? YES! And we have a right to do so without backlash of any kind from our fellow performers, our patrons, Faire Management/Administraion, and fellow rennies.
I'm sorry to hear that Pa Ren Fest felt it was best served to not reknew the Terrors' contract for this season; that must be heartily disappointing to the fans and to the Terrors' themselves. It is hard to not have a contract renewed when you have worked your butt off and enjoyed every minute of it. My sympathies to both the patrons/fans and the Terrors' and sincere wishes that Management decides to bring them back next season.
Blessings,
Emerald
again, common sense, logic, and the general understanding of finances are lost on this site. particularly the performers who post here. the feaste hall thing i dont get. but my understanding from comments i have heard in the past from management is that they instead focused on adding the halloween haunts each fall. they added 10+ functional days to their annual operation, THAT, was and is impressive. they hadnt added days in what, 28 years before they did that?? the county has backed off at the demand due to common sense, and everyone knows it. the area with sandstone becoming more and more worthless, is less and less of a desirable spot.
back to the common sense thing. yeah, when i used to go back in the day and see the types of axel the sot performing, and the many other wonderful national acts coming in, are hard for KCRF. do any of you realize what they pay for that land now versus 10 years ago? 10 years ago that land still cost them NOTHING. they practically stole that land for a quarter a century. the only revenues that wyco and bonner brought in annually were the ag hall of fame ( a joke ) sandstone, and the renfest. they pay almost 400% more now for rent than they once did. ummmmm, lets see, that probably means it costs a ton more to operate the faire. probably, eh??
they are lucky to have the maestro, no doubt. because there is more home grown talent at kcrf that is exceptional, you have no idea. some of you that go to other faires, might realize it. but seriously, there is more natural home grown talent at kcrf than almost any faire i go to. and they do an exceptional amount with their annual shows ( except the joust, what a joke there ) but pub sing, chess, parade, royal cigar smoker, etc, change so much it is unreal. and now the halloween suff each fall. they do a TON there locally. if you dont believe me, go to other faires and see how much they rely on touring acts.
as far as what emerald said about what goes into it for those who do it for the love of the faire. i get that concept. now, there may be some unfairness in who gets paid what, i have heard rumblings about that before ( jolly rogers comes to mind ) but doing something just for the love of it, and losing money on it just to do it. sucks. lots of people do this. i do this. i spend soooooo much of my own money and time on my side business, i lose 4-5 grand a year on it. and i dont have it to lose. but i enjoy seeing how much people love seeing my gingerbread villages, so i dont care what i lose on it in time AND money.
i worked at the beast haunted house in kansas city for 5 seasons as a young man. it was my everything as a youngster. i spent between $2-300 of my own money each season on my make up. i spent between $100-$150 having my costume cleaned, repaired, and updated each season. i would spend money on batteries for flashlights. i would have to keep cold gatorade to keep my voice, and hydrated while working. i spent money on masking tape constantly repairing parts of my room i worked in. never ended, i swear. at the end of the season, it seems as though i would net like $2-300 if i was lucky. for an 8 week run. that didnt count the money i spent on developing pictures, buying film, having friends over for breakfast at 3am after we closed, etc, etc, etc. so yeah, I GET THAT. its hard to keep making yourself do it, that, i understand.
but the business end, i dont understand why some of you dont grasp that this festival was a benefit and nothing more its first 20 seasons. then the next 10 became a business in a damned pricey area. MADE THINGS HARD FOLKS!!
I was a business major in college. What I've seen in business is that when times get hard, whether you're a company or a government entity, the first thing you don't do is lay off your workers. There are plenty of other places to re-examine & cut your expenses. The same goes for Renfests.
I've gotten to know a lot of performers over the last couple of years. What I have found out is that you shouldn't burn your bridges w/ the performers that bring in the crowds. They are not a bunch of primadonnas (they couldn't be or they would move on to television or motion pictures). They do know when they are being treated unfairly though. When you burn your bridges w/ them, the only way to get them back is to change a festival's management, woo them & treat them well.
You can find anyone to take tickets at a gate or hand out bows & arrows. You can cut your turkey leg prices back to $4 a piece. You can build new structures every year. But if you don't have the talented performers that the people are used to every year, your crowd will shrink. It's flat-out dumb to bring in new playtrons when times are bad. It takes a few years for people to get used to the new entertainers or get large numbers of new patrons who don't know what they're missing.
It is like a regular company. If you treat your employees right, they'll be loyal & treat you right. The customers see this & will come back if they see a good environment. Emerald is right. During the good years, funds should be saved back to be prepared for the lean years. This common sense is as old as Biblical times.
Quote from: Finvarra on September 25, 2009, 12:31:35 PM
Thank you, Capt. Emerald, for such a thoughtful, well-written, reply. I really wanted to respond myself. In fact, I had at one time drafted a very long response, but didn't post it. As a new member of the site, I didn't want to appear to be "bashing" the festival in front of patrons, as it were.
I must also respectfully disagree to the idea that the management has been doing "a fine job." Stamberger takes the heat for a lot of things that are beyond his control, but he, the GM and Peterson are all responsible for decisions that defy any logic that I can see, such as not building a permanent banquet facility for which they have been in breach of contract for at least four years and cost them a $60,000 fine.
As has been previously noted, it is a for profit business and as such they are certainly free to do as they see fit, including choosing to cut the entertainment budget. Having said that, street cast has gone from 250-300 performers to barely 100 in the last few years. There are virtually no "name" stage acts left and almost all of the stage acts that are here are local. If they keep this trend up, there won't be any reason for people to bother buying a ticket.
Good Finvarra -
It was a pleasure to see you once again! And let me just say that as always, it was a pleasure to watch you at your work this weekend at KCRF. My hat is definitely off to you, the entire cast, crew, and stage shows for pulling off feats of amazement in the face of all the difficulties facing you all.
I do wish you a wondrous remaining season - I know with NASCAR next weekend things are a 50/50 crap shoot (as always though, no?). Hopefully the NASCAR-widowed and orphaned will be out in droves to seek solace with the Rennies! :D May the weather be gentle on you all, the crowds many, and the endearing moments overflowing.
Blessings until next our paths cross ...
Emerald
Craig m'dear ... I will definitely have to pick your brains for ideas and such ... I had no idea that was your background! In fact, I don't think we've yakked about much more than faires! LOL.
At any rate.. it's been a long weekend - great for seeing family and friends (espeically some former cast members from the 2004 Pirate's Invasion season at KCRF!!!) and the hour grows late.
Until next time,
Emerald
[RANT] Please be forewarned that the following post is snarky, hateful, and very sarcastic .... if you continue to read, you do so at your own risk of being insulted "if the shoe fits." You cannot claim to not have been warned.
KCDCChef
Ya know ... I so wasn't going to reply to or even acknowledge your .... post but, as I love a good challenge and assuming you do as well; I invite you to the following challenge (seeing as how you have it all down pat where business and the proper operations lie, maybe I could learn a thing or two from you ... maybe) ... Taking exactly what I have and doing exactly what I do 24/7/365 ... I invite you to walk a mile in my moccasins and see just how well you do and how that all turns out for you. Ok? Sound fair to you? Sounds bloody fair to me. I look forward to hearing your quarterly reports as well as your quarterly finance reports.
You will need to know a little background before you begin this challenge (which is more than I had when I started out 7 years ago). I started my business without any kind of grants from government, philanthropists, rich family members ... no one but myself and my other half. I still am paying on loans for gear that the company no longer has. Get your EIN number first. Don't forget to purchase the merchandise (and do the inventory yourself every quarter because you are the warehouse and distribution center for your company), keep the props in good working order - replacing them when needed, building them with every new show; building the prop boxes and providing period locks for them. Then there is the building and maintaining of your own garb that is specific to your stage show & character (we cannot afford to spend 100-150 per season to have someone else clean and maintain our costumes ... we poor silly empty-headed performers who cannot grasp logic and finances have to make as much of our garb as possible so that we can afford decent boots, belts, and hats to protect ourselves. ;D ).
Oh ... don't forget to pay for the website every month from the meager company account; cause when that money is gone, it comes out of your personal account. Then don't forget to budget out of your personal/household monies the travel expenses for rehearsals every month, lodgings for festivals that can not/will not provide lodgings for you and up to 7 of your employees, the gas to and from every rehearsal and event, the food that 7 people will eat ... 3 times per day (pesky employees demand more than 1 meal per day, doncha know?). Oh yes, then out of your personal finances is all the supplies (paper, printer ink, envelopes, DVD disks for the camcorder then the blank DVDs you have to copy footage too, and then delivery confirmation as well as postage) for the media packages you must send out to all of the festivals and faires you want your company to apply to. Without the guarantee that you will get the contract or be able to keep the contract from year-to-year. And yes, you'll be doing the video shooting yourself (or your poor other half will be) and you will be doing the dubbing off of footage yourself ... with a household VCR/DVD combo hooked to your TV as you cannot afford professional videography, editing, and dubbing.
Oh yes, you are also the Parental Advisory Board for your group. You must put a rating on each and every show your company puts forth. You must also monitor everyone's language and physicality (including your own) to ensure you are not crossing any lines both in rehearsals (you perform what you practice) as well as on the stage and in the lanes of every event ... year in-year out. And do so in a way you don't alienate or hack off your employees. Most importantly, you are the personal secretary to yourself and every single one of your employees. It is your responsibility to generate and hand out a calendar that lists each event (including rehearsals). Along the line, don't forget to do your duties as Webmaster of the website and keep it up-to-date as much as possible! Why do you do this to yourself? Oh yeah having a webmaster ... costs money that neither you nor your company have for something so frivolous.
THEN .... the up keep and tires on your personal vehicle (since your company cannot afford anything on its own) and the upkeep on the cargo trailer you are *still* making bank payments on to haul all of your props, camping gear (most of which you paid for our of your pocket), and personal garb/clothing in.
All the while paying all of your personal and household bills that come from just drawing a breath of life. Then at the end of the year, you sit in front of a computer; adding up receipt after receipt and figuring depreciation on electronics, camping equipment, cargo trailer and anything else business related ... while praying that your honesty is well served in that the IRS doesn't flag your income tax return because you have again, lost scads more money than you've brought in for that tax year.
You get exactly 2.5 weeks off each year to be "just yourself" with no worries over networking, making media packages, ensuring e-mails and phone calls are made/answered and that contracts are in transit to you (or the ED). Time to yourself to NOT worry if the meager income you have spent 2-3 months per contract haggling like a Jewish fish wife to get for your hard working and dedicated employees (as well as yourself) will be enough or if you (and your employees) will be eating 100-300 each weekend ... again this year.
And at every opportunity - you promote, promote, promote your company. You do e-mail interviews, you do phone interviews, you submit your CD (which you haggled to get produced and printed, and helped do the artwork/photography for) to be reviewed, you take every opportunity thrown in your path to get your company's name in newsprint, on websites, and in magazines. For without exposure, there are no 'gigs.' But that would indicate that you, the average performer, actually understands business .... amazing.
Repeat for 7 years while watching other groups come and go ... doing (and often wearing) much less than you and your group ... and getting much better perks/compensation AND a monetary paycheck. Let me know how it works out for you and if you can say at the end of the challenge time (7 years remember?) if you do not want your share of the pie, that you do not know and understand finances and logic simply because you are a performer who chooses to post on a forum's boards.
I look forward to your reports and a listing of where all you and your stage show have performed.
Good Luck oh Grasshopper! Remember, you do this for the love of the event with the vain glory hope that your prospective employers understand what it takes to put on a single 30 minute show, 4-5 (and sometimes 9) times per day each day of festival you are hired to perform; and that those prospective employers will give you enough compensation (monetarily and others) to simply break even on your expenses. After all, you aren't trying to be a prima donna, "Platinum" stage show. You and your employees actually give a rat's patoot about your prospective employers, your prospective patrons, and being a good cog in the spoke of that particular festival.
Until you have walked the miles I have, living the life I have, and doing what I have done with what little I have done it with ... do not make the mistake of telling me that I do not know logic, how to run a business, nor how finances work and flow. How dare you be so presumptuous my good man. Shame on you.
With this post, I consider this topic done from my perspective. I will not be replying to any further posts from you on this topic nor any others in the future. I wish you the best and hope that you will be given the opportunity to see through other person's eyes that you may broaden your horizons.
Fair Thee Well.
[/RANT]
To the other Forum members and administration; thank you for humoring me in this posting. Your patience and indulgence is truly appreciated.
You Ladies of the Salty Kiss have a cd? I'll be sure to pick one up next year at the Midwest Ren Fest! I can't wait to see you again!
Quote from: Butch on September 28, 2009, 09:50:48 AM
You Ladies of the Salty Kiss have a cd? I'll be sure to pick one up next year at the Midwest Ren Fest! I can't wait to see you again!
Butch,
Indeed we do have CD's. Tis our first offering of piratical humor ... and of a limited number of disks. When this first CD is gone, we'll not be repressing them but move onto our 2nd CD. I will hold a CD back for you so that you are ensured a copy. I look forward to renewing our acquaintance and sharing more laughs with you.
Until next our paths cross, I wish you many fine and happy adventures!
Emerald
Ah, so polite! Are you to be considered a "Privateer" instead of a "Pirate"?
again, a general non understanding of finances from many of you.
as far as the whole "you dont do it, you dont understand". again, for fun, i run a non for profit business, for fun. fund the webpage, fund the products, fund the advertising, fund the literature, fund the photography, printing, etc. and as stated, was a performer at a haunted house for several years. spent a good chunk of my year preparing my act, costume, my room i performed in, etc, and lost money on it like crazy. and spent the same end of season time trying to recover physically. dont assume i dont get it based on not working faires. i do.
some of you dont understand finances though. going off of other acts coming and going that get more that are showing more boobs/cleavage, being younger and prettier, etc, guess i cannot comment on that. wouldnt know. i know several performers out there, and a couple members of management. their opinions differ. so on that topic, we will agree to disagree.
but again, the biggest expenditure out there isnt the payroll folks. it may have been 10 years ago, it isnt now. and their attendance has held steady for years now, actually went up the last couple seasons. my guess would be they arent suffering. the usual suspects are there. and will continue to be.
and my guess is all of you will be. i go every season knowing the joust will not have changed, knowing that there will be no new acts to speak of, to know that even if they did get tartanic that since i go so late in the season, i will miss them. because we are all addicted. same reason i will go to mount hope ( the pennsylvania renaissance faire ) even though tartan terrors and gaelic storm arent there anymore. and that celtic spring isnt there. it is an addiction.
but that any of you think that they can afford to spend soooo much more than they are on payroll, that someone is living in a mansion somewhere with an ivory backscratcher, is dumb.
Quote from: Butch on September 28, 2009, 01:57:32 PM
Ah, so polite! Are you to be considered a "Privateer" instead of a "Pirate"?
Butch -
Indeed, I do attempt to be polite to all I meet. Sometimes I am successful and at other times, not so much. Indeed my good sir, I and my crew are truly Privateers; being legalized with a Letter of Marque and paying taxes unto the crown (but gaining no representation either!) ;)
Should you have any questions or wish to chat, feel free to PM me here and I shall return your message.
Blessings,
Emerald
As you wish, my lady, a PM it shall be! Thank-you for maintaining the high standard of etiquette you set for yourself! I enjoy reading your posts.
Good King Finvarra,
I bow to your eloquence and well thought-out posting. Thank you for sharing information and educating me; I do sincerely appreciate it.
May you have a wonderful day,
Emerald
Quote from: Butch on September 29, 2009, 10:16:15 AM
As you wish, my lady, a PM it shall be! Thank-you for maintaining the high standard of etiquette you set for yourself! I enjoy reading your posts.
Thank you good sir, you are far to kind with your words. Especially when one considers I allowed my temper to get the better of me. I am glad my postings bring you enjoyment.
A reply PM should have been delivered unto you.
Blessings,
Emerald
finvarra-
great reply, good points. as far as the finances out there go, with the vast amount of public information that the unified goverment has published in recent years thanks to tax breaks, the amount of money that is paid for annually to lease the festival grounds is out there for the public to see. it has increased astronomically in the last decade. me thinks that is the justifiable reason that the amount of staffers has gone down so much. i am a big rennie, come each fall, so i for sure know the difference between the paid help and those that just hang out because they like hanging out. and i think those two wash one another. they cannot charge what they should in regards to rent going up so much, people would not pay it.
now, i dont condone them letting things get in such a state of disrepair, steps, stages, things like that, i dont know how to respond. again, i tend to see this at other faires too. not sure if it is the vision of the propreitor to let it look more period, just apathy on financial reasons, or laziness. not sure which. i have noticed it at kcrf, prf, nyrf, and orf. seems to be common, unsure why exactly.
specifically regarding the halloween haunts as i call them, i just call them that due to theme changing annually. i know exactly what they are. now, i can tell you this, nothing would make me happier than if kcrf used their grounds more. personally, i dont even want a banquet hall out there. i would like to see a brew pub go in or a winery. but a banquet hall is at best, dumb. i have always liked that the grounds were so special. that, we only use them for the festival, and now the annual halloween thing. personally, i would love to see the festival expanded to an 8 week run. or a holiday themed weekend in early november, or even better, a celtic fling type thing. problem is the festival needs so much updating for this to happen. microphones for one. but that may or not ever happen. it is a part of the lease agreement, but my understanding from conversations with jim and carrie, and the public portion of the lease fight, is the halloween stuff was subsequential. the feaste crap was a part of the lease, not the halloween stuff. but it is moot.
i also dont think anyone should use this forum to bellyache about their gripe with festival management and ownership. talk to them, would be more appropriate. this is a forum for rennies to talk and talk about faire. our festival is always in the top 10 nationally in attendance, and one of the least visited on the forums. we should try and put a good foot forward. i am seeing more and more people inquire about coming to our festival in the forums, and further, how impressed they are.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p5/Real_AirCooledMan/deadhorse.jpg)
agreed. and will not call anyone paid help per your request.
Jem is in Spain, last I knew.
I'd wager Tullamore isn't here because of schedule conflicts, and KCRF doesn't like to contract for anything less than all 16 days.
Yes, even the biggest acts were given a pay cut. :( Hopefully that'll change next year.
you're probably right, mooncalf. I've heard of some people who would normally be performers thwarted by minor schedule conflicts... a tragedy, really. btw welcome to the forums... is KC your home faire?
::)
One final set of comments on this topic and then I, like Emerald, will be silent...
Emerald, that was a well-spoken discussion about the reality of being an entertainer in a venue that is, all too often, a larger version of what is commonly called 'community theatre'. Yes, most of us (all of us, let's be honest) started off doing this because we love the work and the environment. And a great many of us continue to put forth valiant efforts even in situations where the money and the conditions are less than ideal, simply because "the play's the thing" - period.
But, as Emerald noted, at some point the Real World intrudes, and we have to make hard decisions about how we will spend our time and money, especially when there are families and multiple members involved. QG made a group decision not to accept a contract that would have resulted in most of us paying (rather dearly, in my case) for the privilege of coming to the faire and performing; we simply could not afford to put out that sum of money every single weekend for the entire fall. Nor could many of the other groups who were no-shows at KC this past season; all of them were offered similar contract terms, and several of them made choices much like ours and Emerald's group.
KCRF started as a fundraising effort for the KC Art Institute and served in that capacity for 20 years. But it has been owned and operated by a private corporation for more than 15 years now, one that owns entertainment venues in several locations in a for-profit setting. I have no idea whether the current festival ownership is making a profit on the faires or not, nor, frankly, do I care very much - if I want the difficulty of faire ownership, I have several opportunities to involve myself in such. (In point of fact, I already have, to some extent; some of you are aware of this from previous posts I have made on this and other forums.)
What I *do* know is information that is in the public record. The lease costs are larger now than they were in the previous lease, but they are not as large as many of the land uses in the same general area. The extra costs this year were a direct result of the failure of faire management to fulfill one of the first milestones built into the current lease - build a feast/banquet hall. KCDCChef, regardless of whether you (or anyone else) think that a feast hall should be put up, the fact is that the UG wants it there - and they wrote the lease contract to stipulate that. Faire management signed off on it - and then failed to fulfill their end of the bargain. So a penalty clause kicked in, and, as a result, faire management has to pay for the lease and the fine this year - thus no extra money for performers, stage acts and office staff. (They all took some form of cut in pay.)
That is the crux of the matter - it's not about everyday costs of doing business as much as it is about the failure of the current management to fulfill their contractual obligations. Until/unless the faire owner begins to fulfill his part of the bargain (both with regards to the land lease and dealings with vendors and performers), KCRF will continue to slide downhill. And that makes me sad; I have enjoyed working at KCRF these past 15 years or so, as a vendor boothie and booth manager and, more recently, as a performer. But I, too, must place a value on my time and my efforts, as must anyone who uses their talents and skills to earn a living.
:(
:(
Quote from: LadyNiniane on October 22, 2009, 06:52:12 PM
::)
One final set of comments on this topic and then I, like Emerald, will be silent...
Emerald, that was a well-spoken discussion about the reality of being an entertainer in a venue that is, all too often, a larger version of what is commonly called 'community theatre'. Yes, most of us (all of us, let's be honest) started off doing this because we love the work and the environment. And a great many of us continue to put forth valiant efforts even in situations where the money and the conditions are less than ideal, simply because "the play's the thing" - period.
But, as Emerald noted, at some point the Real World intrudes, and we have to make hard decisions about how we will spend our time and money, especially when there are families and multiple members involved. QG made a group decision not to accept a contract that would have resulted in most of us paying (rather dearly, in my case) for the privilege of coming to the faire and performing; we simply could not afford to put out that sum of money every single weekend for the entire fall. Nor could many of the other groups who were no-shows at KC this past season; all of them were offered similar contract terms, and several of them made choices much like ours and Emerald's group.
KCRF started as a fundraising effort for the KC Art Institute and served in that capacity for 20 years. But it has been owned and operated by a private corporation for more than 15 years now, one that owns entertainment venues in several locations in a for-profit setting. I have no idea whether the current festival ownership is making a profit on the faires or not, nor, frankly, do I care very much - if I want the difficulty of faire ownership, I have several opportunities to involve myself in such. (In point of fact, I already have, to some extent; some of you are aware of this from previous posts I have made on this and other forums.)
What I *do* know is information that is in the public record. The lease costs are larger now than they were in the previous lease, but they are not as large as many of the land uses in the same general area. The extra costs this year were a direct result of the failure of faire management to fulfill one of the first milestones built into the current lease - build a feast/banquet hall. KCDCChef, regardless of whether you (or anyone else) think that a feast hall should be put up, the fact is that the UG wants it there - and they wrote the lease contract to stipulate that. Faire management signed off on it - and then failed to fulfill their end of the bargain. So a penalty clause kicked in, and, as a result, faire management has to pay for the lease and the fine this year - thus no extra money for performers, stage acts and office staff. (They all took some form of cut in pay.)
That is the crux of the matter - it's not about everyday costs of doing business as much as it is about the failure of the current management to fulfill their contractual obligations. Until/unless the faire owner begins to fulfill his part of the bargain (both with regards to the land lease and dealings with vendors and performers), KCRF will continue to slide downhill. And that makes me sad; I have enjoyed working at KCRF these past 15 years or so, as a vendor boothie and booth manager and, more recently, as a performer. But I, too, must place a value on my time and my efforts, as must anyone who uses their talents and skills to earn a living.
:(
:(
nice post, good comments. this discussion, in my mind, has been a productive one. the amount of the rent that midamerica festivals pays the UG was dramatically higher in years passed too, not just this year. as a matter of fact, i believe the amount of a penalty assesed to them wont even show up on their balance sheet until 2010. could be wrong. what i do know is the amount of money that MAF pays to the Unified Goverment has been ridiculously higher, like, according to my math, 3 times higher, starting in 2000, it just went crazy. since then it has been going up every year, cost of doing business i suppose. but my point is and was, it went way up 10 years ago. about the time we all started noticing things.
and it is a labor of love for anyone who does that. been there, done that. i mean, doing gingerbread lane every year for me is the same. i have to make a decision each and every january do i want to spend thousands of dollars, out of pocket, for supplies, advertising, internet design, printing, and it is a hit. there is no one getting fat off kcrf. a lot of performers feel like the "younger prettier ones in better corsets" or the raunchier acts that bring in the youngsters, get paid the most. from my understanding from current performers, i have several of them that are friends of mine, that the most of the dough goes to paying for the fees associated with things like joust, chess, and the like. true, jolly rogers, and the blades, tend to get a bigger cut. but be honest, no one is getting fat financially off of this. kcrf management made a decision long ago to put more money and efforts into stage acts and focus less and less on lane acts. most of the lane acts left do it because they enjoy doing it. a friend of mine in the vulgarian royalty says she doesnt expect to ever get paid a dime off it. but she loves doing it. that, fuels why you guys all do it.
will that sustain it well into the next decade? hard to say. for me, i hope it does. and believe it or not, i do thank you guys for what you do out there and the sacrifices you make.