On Monday I saw another royalty group other then our own Queen. After a bit of research, I found out that it was the King and Queen from Bristol and many of their nobles.
Not trying to cause any problems, but does anyone know why they were at festival in their royalty garb?
I was a bit confused when I first walked in and was worried that our Queen was being replaced!
Thankfully I did get to see her later in the day and at Queen's Tea (which I had never done before...it was wonderful!) ;D
Hello Thumper --
If it was the group with a bearded king in a blue surcoate leading the entorage, then you have been mis-informed.
This group was NOT from Bristol --Like MIRF, Bristol is an Elizabethan show, therefore, there would be NO king, just Elizabeth and her Court.
This group was visiting from another faire, where Henry VII is reigning king.
The group you mention is from the new Mid-Michigan faire that opened last year. It starts the weekend after our faire closes, and the founders are MRF regulars.
Thank you. I was told Bristol and I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info! :)
Quote from: Katie Bookwench on September 08, 2009, 10:36:10 AM
Hello Thumper --
If it was the group with a bearded king in a blue surcoate leading the entorage, then you have been mis-informed.
This group was NOT from Bristol --Like MIRF, Bristol is an Elizabethan show, therefore, there would be NO king, just Elizabeth and her Court.
This group was visiting from another faire, where Henry VII is reigning king.
Yup that was King Henry the VII and his entourage from the Mid Michigan Faire in Frankenmuth. He was arrested shortly after and sent to the "jail"
James Raley plays him, as far as I know it was their entire court.
Sort of like walking in to Burger King in your McDonald's uniform and carrying in a Big Mac, isn't it.
Personally, I just see it as bad form to come with an entire royal court to another faire. It smacks of disrespect for the resident cast and can confuse the patrons.
Well, since you mention it, Mags....let me add another dynamic to this issue.
It also put the 'villagers' (cast on the street) in a really uncomfortable position.
In this case, the responses are limited and problematic. If her father Henry is 'alive' how can Elizabeth still be Queen? Crowns are usually passed on in the event of Death - I don't think there are too many people who have ANY idea of history that you could convince that Henry 'got tired of being king' and 'just handed his crown over' to Elizabeth.
Therefore, accepting one character automatically denies the other - so we are left with few options: do we undermine the 'reality' of our guest, or the 'reality' of our show?
Or is the best answer not to react at all? Nope, that's not a great idea either.
Rest assured, Thumper, you aren't drumming up any trouble at all for just asking a question. In fact, I'm sure a lot of people are thanking your for asking it, because they were probably confused too.
Had the MMRF called ahead and spoke to MIRF Management and/or Marketing to arrange something, this little publicity stunt would have turned out better. As it was, I understand they were asked to leave.
I don't know what sort of 'press' that will generate for MMRF. Only time will tell.
I think anyone wearing a crown to someone elses faire is just tasking for trouble.
The rules at etiquette were not followed, and I think it was disrespectful. Especially since some of the members have previously been on cast at MiRF, and are fully aware of protocol at the Michigan Renaissance Festival. T'is truly sad :'(
No, there is no hard and fast rule about people wearing nobility garb to faire, patrons do it all the time.
However, going into a faire where you know they have Elizabeth as a Queen and declaring yourself King Henry VIII and coming in with your full court is just bad form. If one patron comes dressed as Henry Tudor, it can be a fun thing for the cast to play off as "Oh, tis must be a ghost I do see." but a full court from another faire coming in and knowing what they are doing? You are messing with the setting the cast and the entire faire sets out to create with full knowledge of what you are doing.
Yes, James came in his king garb after he was done with the role. I have heard he was asked to stop doing so as well. Vulgarians or any other 'made up' royality are fine too, because within the setting of Hollygrove- they do nothing to negate the 'reality' of Queen Elizabeth like having her long dead father wandering about.
Well said Margaret! *curtsy*
Quote from: erzherzogin_sybella on September 08, 2009, 02:42:47 PM
Also, I've seen members of the original Vulgarian group back hanging out with official castmembers recently in pictures posted online, too. Just food for thought.
True, but they're present on the agreement that they'll be helping out the new brood of Vulgarians since we're rather shorthanded. They're working with us, agreeing to follow our protocol and rules- so they're not negating or questioning the continuity- rather bolstering it.
I have no issues with cast or court from other faires visiting, as long as they play by the rules- which includes time and setting. I remember the Silverleaf cast invading a few years back as trolls attending a Hob Family Reunion. Did they steal the show for a bit? Yes, but it was all in good fun and they split themselves up into little groups (exceptions being their mass arrest and arrival). Did they respect our continuity? Most definitely.
My main annoyance with the MMRF's invasion was not so much the continuity issue, but just the sheer distraction of 30 or so people marching around parade-style in a massive column disrupting my bits.
Bad form indeed
Well, this is truly what the freedom of forum is all about. You have all validated my feelings that this appearance was in poor taste. To simply visit our faire is a wonderful thing, a noble thing, a friendly and neighborly thing, but to do so as characters from another faire.......I don't know what official faire etiquette may or may not be, but the expressions on the faces of our visitors seemed to say it all.....they looked a little sheepish.
I do hope that the MMRF cast members and/or management see this thread and realize that their "promotion" tactics are actually hurting them. I was excited about having another faire to visit and had wished them well but seeing the way that they took over the show at Mayfaire this spring left me with a very negative impression.
In the 10 years that I had been a cast member of the Michigan Renaissance Festival it was made clear to me that as a fellow performer visiting another festival it was protocol to contact the Entertainment Director(s) and find out the rules of play etc. Now this was in keeping especially when traveling as a group and being in "character". There were many instances when performers from the Michigan cast visited upon the Bristol cast and not only did we ask about the rules of play but we offered our assistance wherever it may be needed.
Since then as my role as an Entertainment Director I have had performers from other festivals call and offer the same to me. It fosters a great working relationship as professional performers. Even when visiting other Mid America festivals we contact the ED's first. Former cast members of the Michigan festival contact me and ask for permission to play with the cast.
If I were to visit another faire, I would contact the ED of that faire and let them know of my visit. It doesn't mean that I'm asking for preferential treatment, it means I'm being respectful of their stage.
I also have to note that when Silverleaf cast visited Michigan a few years ago, they did not come in character. They were definitely a bunch of characters but not their festival characters.
I suppose that when you are "young" in the business of renaissance festivals you are apt to make foolish mistakes. Often the need for attention outweighs clear judgement. And the belief that "any attention is good attention" may warrant a second thought.
As they saying goes... "I don't swim in your toilet so don't piss in my pool"
Maria Christian
Quote from: Pipere on September 08, 2009, 05:03:00 PM
Quote from: erzherzogin_sybella on September 08, 2009, 02:42:47 PM
Also, I've seen members of the original Vulgarian group back hanging out with official castmembers recently in pictures posted online, too. Just food for thought.
True, but they're present on the agreement that they'll be helping out the new brood of Vulgarians since we're rather shorthanded.
Well, when cast members aren't treated right, they tend to quit--that might account for this constant "shorthandedness" I keep hearing everyone talking about out at Mirf. More food for thought. Meh, everyone needs to lighten up and go out there just to have fun, not to for the purpose of causing a scene.
Dear Cast, Crew, Rennie, Patron, etc, that was at the Michigan Renaissance Festival on Labor Day Monday. I am writing this post so that those of you that will read it and believe that it is the truth will hopefully help with any questions. I have been giving this a great deal of thought all day and feel confident that what I am about to say will be well met.
Approximately 2 weeks ago I made a suggestion to my wife about King Henry VIII and his court coming to the Michigan Ren Fest on the Day of Wrong. It was intended to be in line with the Day of Wrong. It was to be King Henry VIII, Queen Elizabeths father, coming back from the past, checking up on her and see how she is doing. Once again, DAY OF WRONG.
After we had seen her at court we were disbursing. Some of us had to leave because of family obligations. Some were changing into other attire. And some were just going to spend the rest of the day at faire as we always do. But when we were turned away at court and proceeded to sit down on the back side of the castle we were approached by the Jailer with warrents. The concenus of us all is we would go along with it. After being walked around the castle two times, we had three people that due to medical reasons fell out. One of them had low sugar. One of them had a asthma attack and the third had a very serious muscle spasm that paralized her right leg temporarily. All three of these people know there limitations. But due to the circumstances they were unable to take care of themselves.
You talk in your posts of how we were inconciderate to Holly, the Cast and Crew, the Rennies and the Patrons. But not did one of you ask why we were there. Not one of you knew that three of our people had medical issues that worsend because of the situation they were put in. After we were able to leave from in front of the castle, we walked out to our cars, had lunch, changed, those that had to leave left, those that remained, came back in in small groups to enjoy the rest of the day. But it still wasn't over. Several times during the afternoon, we had been watched by security. Why? I do not know. But what ever the reason was, they must have had one.
Again, I would like to express my deepest apologese to everyone at Holly for offending. My intent was never to have anyone upset with our actions and my idea. So if there are any fingers to be pointed, any comments to be made, make them to me and not to the members that were present on that day. Hopefully this clarifies anyones misunderstandings of Labor Day Monday, DAY OF WRONG
As for the misconception that we "took over the show" at Mayfaire. Obviously the story line was not being followed. From the opening of the gate, to the end of day song, our court was asked to participate in Mayfaire for the entire run for several reasons. First of all to kick off what they hope to be an exciting event next year called the "Cloth of Gold Event". It is where they will be inviting the Royals from all festivals from all over the US and Canda to be apart of their festival. King Henry VIII and a very few members of his court was there to help them announce the exciting event. Second, parts of the MMRF cast were involved in the Royal Wedding that took place on the last day. Some of the skits that led up to the grand event had to have them there every day. Again I hope that this clarifies any misunderstanding.
Maria, I have just one question for you. When you stopped us after we had come in threw the gate, why did you not ask or tell us that we needed to disburse, change our garb, or ask us why we were there? Just curious?
It was never about attention or promotion. It was about the Day of Wrong. But you never asked. And if you had, we would have gladly told you. But did you? Did you ask us? I think not, now you are just like all the others, blowing this way out of purportion. This is a faire, like the others, where people gather, have a good time, be with their friends, go see the enterainment, do a little shopping, go to the pub. That is what faire is all about. Not making assumptions, which we all know what that means. Would it have made any difference if we were from a Klingon War Ship, all made up by a professional Hollywood make up artist? And looked better than anyone there? We would have stollen the show and if I remember my history correctly, there weren't any Klingons during the Renaissance Era.
Why didn't you ask why we were there? Why didn't you ask what our intent was? You just assumed that we were there from another faire to create problems? To promote our faire? To what? And if you had asked and we told you what our intent was, which was to have some fun with the Day of Wrong, you could have let us know at that time that it was not proper, that we did not follow YOUR rules of protocol. I would also like to know if these "protocols" of yours are so important, why then have they never been mentioned before by any of the festivals that we have talked to?
If I had the opportunity to be involved with making of plans at a faire and a visiting court came unannounced, I would not make them feel as bad as you made these people. And I mean that. If another faire came to the one that I was involved with to do positive things, to have a good time, to be apart of the scenery, to promote Renaissance Festivals everywhere. Instead of turning them away or making them feel like they aren't desired, I would most definately make them feel appreciated.
Heyo.
Couple of things
First off,
I meant Henry the VIII, not Henry the VII (Heck you think I'd know this since I yell it out every weekend when yelling at our Dear Queen Lizzy)
Second off,
As the mastermind behind Trollapalooza in 2007 we came out in force as Trolls, not as a visting faire or it's resident cast as Maria has mentioned.
Course I also brought in the tourist invasion of 2001ish, and the pajama group after that....SO....However
Had I decided to bring out the SLRF cast I would have confirmed with the front office (Maria) just as has been the policy since I can remember before I knew anything about anything in regards to renaissance faires or protocol or common courtesy.
All in all day of wrong or not, a presence of that size without any advanced warning or ability for management to prep for it threw the entire cast off guard. While we know how to react to each other, when a visting set of royalty or cast comes to visit we need to know how to act and react so that the show has continuity and fits for the patron base.
Anycase, just my two cents as an invasion organizer and current MiRF employee, previous Ren Faire Manager etc.
Just a quick note:
The "Day of Wrong" is not an official event. It appears on no schedule I have ever seen.
It then becomes much like the Knights of Iron joke of "Punch Jack Sparrow Impersonators In The Face Day". Yeah we can say it, but if we DID it I bet there would be problems.
So claiming you did something due to a nonexistant, self proclaimed 'day' doesn't really make the basis of an arguement.
L. Dale Walter
Dale brings up a good point.
While I can recall, way back in the depths of history, times when the cast took part in Day of Wrong, to what ever degree, it has been faded out of any sort of official event. In fact, the majority of the people who still take part in it, myself included, are either those who remember it from ages past, or have been told about it by those who remember it from ages past. It is an infinitely small handful of people who actually dress up for day of wrong.
And, as I have always seen it, Day of Wrong is meant as a bit of comedy that would normally not be appropriate. It's a Storm Trooper in a kilt, a historically accurate gown made out of Hello Kitty cloth, or a hairy man in drag. It's something to look at, shake your head, laugh, and say 'That is so wrong!'
I failed to see anything funny in another faires court showing up unannounced, and claiming that they weren't there to attract any attention.
PS: I do find it horribly humorous that you have managed to convince yourself that the entire fault in this lies in everyone but y'all.
Several of the members who worked at MiRF know the rules about the jailors. They are NOT cast, rather their own group. If you do not wish to be jailed, you need merely tell the jailor you have a medical condition and they will let you go. It is not their intent to cause harm, rather make the Festival funny and interesting.
Further, since this was also done at another faire, besides Mayfaire (admittadly, I was told this, and did not see it with my own eyes), it is my belief this was a publicity stunt and a most offensive one to the patrons, playtorns and cast of MiRF.
I attended MMRF last year and was happy to do so. I went as another character and played as a patron does. One cast member treated me like I was still with them in my position at MiRF and insulted me, badly. They thought it was in good fun, but I was a non-disruptive, paying participant. It's over the damn now, but I was shocked. I meant to just enjoy the day, and I did, very much, except for that one incident.
I am confused and hurt that this happened, and, "day of wrong," or no, which cast is instructed to not participate in (okay, I wore blue mascara), and several MMRF people know that, because they were on our cast...I am deeply dissapointed and for these reasons will no longer be a paton at MMRF. It's not out of spite, inthe least, but shame me once... I do not believe people I had respect did this. I attend other faires and festivals as I wish to. I pay full price and enjoy them. I see shows and spend my time shopping. I don't get a lot of time for that when working. Which is fine, I'm not there to shop and my favorite shows are up where I spend time. So, it all works out.
As for the treatment of cast...it's my second year. I've worked long hours, in horrible weather and had patrons make fun of me. It's not the greatest of fun to feel like you are drowning in a heavy gown, but we were all warned going in. Our cast is quite large this year and I am very excited about that. There will always be people who feel they are mistreated in every workplace imagineable. At every Faire and Festival in the country. Even MMRF probably has it's complainers. It's part and parcel of the job. If you're acting in a Faire or Festival for money...well, no matter which one you're in, don't expect to live in a mansion. LOL!!
Quote from: Dark Wolf on September 08, 2009, 09:40:46 PM
Why didn't you ask why we were there? Why didn't you ask what our intent was? You just assumed that we were there from another faire to create problems? To promote our faire? To what?
I think that's something many of your group needs to ask
themselves first.
You can plainly see from the various responses - and NOT just from Maria-- that the group crossed a line.
Is there a reason why no one in the MMRF organization contacted Maria or the GM at MIRF, as is professional courtesy? Is it
really because no one knew it should be done?
Quote from: Dark Wolf on September 08, 2009, 09:40:46 PM
And if you had asked and we told you what our intent was, which was to have some fun with the Day of Wrong, you could have let us know at that time that it was not proper, that we did not follow YOUR rules of protocol. I would also like to know if these "protocols" of yours are so important, why then have they never been mentioned before by any of the festivals that we have talked to?
They are not just Maria's rules - as said before in a couple other posts, this is merely professional courtesy between faires. This is not a new concept - many faires do this.
Traditionally, a Robin Hood storyline ends with King Richard returning to England and resolving the John/Nottingham scourge and rewarding Robin and Marian. But KOI
knows that brining in a KING RICHARD OF ENGLAND would undermine the fact that Hollygrove has a monarch – QUEEN ELIZABETH OF ENGLAND – and it's pretty darn obvious that those two characters should NOT exist in the same show.
So perhaps if your cast of MMRF has come as say....Old King Cole, or King Ludwig von Hoofenstupper, there would not have been such an outcry of foul play. But to come as HENRY, KING OF ENGLAND was a bit over the top. And to come with the entire population of Hampton Court in tow? Two words: EPIC BALLOCKS.
You could have opted to come in to MIRF as a different set of characters, and still promoted your show – heck, if someone had cleared with MIRF Management, I'd be willing to bet you could have set up a booth somewhere and be permitted to hand out literature about it!
Quote from: Dark Wolf on September 08, 2009, 09:40:46 PM
If another faire came to the one that I was involved with to do positive things, to have a good time, to be apart of the scenery, to promote Renaissance Festivals everywhere. Instead of turning them away or making them feel like they aren't desired, I would most definately make them feel appreciated.
In that case, I will take that as an invitation to myself and all my friends to make sets of sumptuous Tudor nobles, and come to your show as QUEEN ANNE BOLEYN OF ENGLAND, complete with an extensive Court, including characters already present on the MMRF Cast –
I'm sure the actors playing the Queen, and those other characters won't mind a bit, right? (*stage wink*)
And Dale? I think this is your cue to develop a new show for KOI based on Richard III, and bring your entire cast to MMRF as well – or maybe Henry VII? No need to call ahead –according to this post, MMRF welcome you and your actors with open arms, even if your King would confuse the bejeebus out of their patrons when they see their Henry VIII.
After all, the Day of Wrong is a tradition begun by
someone, somewhere – so who's to say I can't start a new tradition – a second Day Of Wrong, during MMRF, and that way, I'd have a handy excuse to come as a problematic character to the cast, just because I think that it would be fun for me, get me attention, and promote my new show.
I did not mean to cause a stir. I was just really confused to as why there were two courts that day. :(
I have heard of the day of wrong, but I never knew what it actually was.
Dear Dark Wolf,
I was all set to accept your apology. You made explanation of your mindset on how this debacle was conceived. You claimed responsibility and made apology. All of that was appreciated and could have ended the discussion. Everyone makes mistakes; you learn from them and move on. Mistakes can include excellent bits, well executed, rehearsed and all but still not be a good idea. Sometimes bits go over the top and most of us have stepped in it at one time or another.
However, then you continue to answer other posts proceeding to justify why you apparently still think what you did was okay. I don't believe you understand any of the concerns that have been put forth as to why it should never have happened. Your feelings were hurt because the bit you thought of was not well received. You were unhappy with some of the reactions that followed it.
You attempt to cast fault on others and give that wide eyed three year old whine of "I didn't do it on purpose, I didn't know" when they are caught with the illicit half eaten cookie in their hand. <whine>I don't know why security is watching me. I don't know why this or why that.</whine> Oh, please. If you truly, truly are that naïve at your age then I feel sorry for you. I'll be happy to sit down and explain it to you in the simplest words I can muster.
I am still shaking my head. You and many of the others in your group claim to love MIRF and the people on the cast. Yet you never looked at any other side of this bit and what it might look like to patrons, or anyone else. I am amazed, in a group of adults, as large as you put together of playtrons, rennies and staff, that none of them put forth a concern that this was a bad idea and they all went along with you. So yes, since adults make choices and free will still exists, that is why they are included in the comments being put forth. They are not guilty of the bad idea; they are guilty in participating in the execution. I am most sore hearted by disappointment. I think that's the worst part, so many people that I know took part gleefully and without thought of the ramifications to this show.
There are always consequences to actions. I will speak with my wallet. I will not be attending your show. There are other venues that will receive my support and my dollars, for Renaissance Festivals are a business. They are a business of fantasy and fun, but a business none the less.
God speed and fair you well.
Hmm... I can see the point of both sides of this arguement, but knowing those involved with MMRF I never once thought it was any kind of malicious intent. All of those I know from MMRF are wonderful people, very kind, respectful and considerate.
If, and I only say IF this truly was a "look at me" self promotion, then I say shame on you all. If there is a known unwritten courtesy of notifying another faire of a visit of this type, then obviously someone in the MMRF group knew and should have extended said courtesy.
If it was a "day of wrong" thing (like me in my Scooby Doo oufit), then obviously by the responses, it was not a very well conceived one.
Boom - cannon fire - ahem
Alrighty then most have tossed in their two pence....
- problem identified - explained - opinions entered - apologies received - now let us call a truce
White flag please
Now let us enjoy the next four weekends as we should as friends and aquaintences should - for we may or might never all meet here again - drinks all around
It was, admittedly, a MISTAKE. When it was presented to the cast, never was it brought up about having to call ahead to let it be known that the court was coming. I have personally never been apart of the cast or crew at any festival until this year when asked to participate with MMRF at Mayfaire. Nor during the many years of research had it ever been mentioned from all of the Management that was spoken to, including but not limited to Ohio, Kentucky, Mayfaire, Silverleaf, Wisconsin, and many many more. As Maria said, this particular event is very very young. Very new to running a festival, and Michigan is 31 years old.
How many of you were there in the beginning? How many mistakes were made when it was first established? Were any of you there in the beginning? Do any of you know all the mistakes that were made when Michigan was first established? All this is is a mistake made by a baby festival. The apology has been made.
Trust me, he feels bad enough as it is. Hollygrove was his home. He had spent over 10 years in the lanes at Hollygrove. He has found a place where he felt at home and with the best people in the world right there in the lanes of Hollygrove. We have all found ourselves in with a group of people that accept us for who and what we are, that allow us to be ourselves, even when we aren't ourselves. Can't we just be happy that there are 4 more weekends where we get to do this? Or do we have to hurt everyone involved with this baby of a faire because one person made a bad decision? The entertainment, the merchants, the non profit organizations, the children that would so enjoy seeing you there. I can't say that I had ever thought of any of you to be so shallow or of such bad taste that you would hold so many people to blame for one mans mistakes. I am hoping that I am still correct in my perceptions.
QuoteIs there a reason why no one in the MMRF organization contacted Maria or the GM at MIRF, as is professional courtesy? Is it really because no one knew it should be done?
Being as I am the one that would have contacted Maria, I can honestly say, NO, I didn't know. Again, I am new to this position as well as to being apart of a festivals court. And when speaking with other festivals, it was never mentioned about having to let them know if we were to come and visit, individually or as a whole. So for this, I do apologize.
QuoteThey are not just Maria's rules - as said before in a couple other posts, this is merely professional courtesy between faires. This is not a new concept - many faires do this.
so does this mean that not all faires do this? Like the smaller fairs. The ones that don't pull in 20,000 people a day like Hollygrove, Bristol, Minnesota, Ohio, and Silverleaf do?
QuoteSeveral of the members who worked at MiRF know the rules about the jailers. They are NOT cast, rather their own group. If you do not wish to be jailed, you need merely tell the jailer you have a medical condition and they will let you go. It is not their intent to cause harm, rather make the Festival funny and interesting.
I did tell them, as did many others, and it was repeated time and again that they were under the "Queens Orders". We did have a couple of people that absolutely refused from the very beginning and one of them even crossed his arms in front of his chest. The jailer wadded up the warrent and stuffed it into his arms. What made it worse what when all 3 of the Ladies had fallen out, they are still very insistant that the progression continue with everyone except those three.
nliedel I am sure that if any of the owners found out that you were treated badly by any of the cast or crew of MMRF there would have been something done. I know for a fact that there are a couple of cast members as well as entertainers from last year that are not welcome back this year because of their actions. So don't think that they would take something like that lightly, they do not.
It was never done for a promotional purpose. We weren't handing out fliers and the name of MMRF was never mentioned. If it was, would people have thought we were from Bristol? We wanted to spend as little time in there as possible as a group. We waited in the parking lot for hours. We were to progress to the field of honor, present the gift and disband. That was all we were there for. There was a gift that was going to be presented to the Queen, and that was all. The gift never got presented, and probably never will. Those of the cast and crew of MMRF that have met and know the Queen of Hollygrove have the utmost respect for her. A good portion of us still tremble when in her presence. She has a regalness about her that cannot be duplicated.
I'll end my rant with this. A mistake has been made. Lessons have been learned. The person (s) that made the mistakes have apologized. In my opinion however you shouldn't punish the patrons, the entertainers, the merchants because a couple of people made a mistake. It was just that, a mistake, and if there is anyone at all here that has never ever made a mistake, I would like to know who they are and meet them.
*bringing out a large white flag and waving it*
Lady Gwyndolyn , White flag duly noted and accepted. GypsyQueenie threw out the first, and I agree. With all you have done in the past with organizing the Masque and such, no one should dare try to hold a grudge against you or your fine husband.
As I stated before, I never took your groups actions as malicious in the first place.
Forgive and forget, and lets move on. Your presence will be warmly accepted as always! A lovely smile like yours is a rare treat, and I look forward to seeing in many more times in the coming weeks, including at MMRF this year.
History 101
In the dark ages, in the times before the sun of Glorianna shone on Hollygrove, there was a lowly shopkeep who embarked upon an exciting new line of clothes (this happened each year with a bit of a promo to follow). In order to celebrate said arrival of the new line of high end wear we orchestrated an invasion of the French court and chocolate upon the shire. It was kept around the shop until the parade went by us. It was then that we were invited to join said parade by Gibbon - at the end of the line throwing 3 Musketeer bars to the crowd and followed it straight unto the pub where we had a drink and proceeded back to the shop.
Months later in the off season what began as a promo for the shop was taken as an offense to the court at the time - which by the way had a king who wore cowboy boots and a court that interacted very little with the townsfolk or the patron of our beloved shire. The Ancients of the village may recall this but most will not. Either way lessons were learned all around and I believe the very next year our beloved Madge arrived and all the shire has been bathed in golden hues since.
Me thinks now endeth the lesson
Hatchet et al buried - moving on...
So everyone here has put in there two cents, the owners from MMRF and Managment as well as playtrons and patrons from Hollygrove, but you haven't heard what I want to say as a cast member from MMRF.
I am not on court, infact my better half and I run the jail, but as a gift to Lady Gwyn, and to show off my brand new Court Garb that Cyclone Jack and I had slaved over in secret for a week. I was in line that day "PARADING" around Holly. For those who are saying that we came in and it through the cast and crew all off and what not, I say are these not payed ACTORS. Has anyone ever heard the term IMPROV? It is an acctual acting style and it happens all the time, even in broadway. If you dont belive me I have been on stage quite a bit and my boyfriend has gone to college for acting, so your argument before you even pipe it up is void.
This Common Curtusy clause that no one knew about. Is it common curtesy to humiliate people. TO hurt them physiclly and then have pictures taken? No I dont think it is. MY MOTHER WAS HURT people, I don't think you grasp the concept. The Jailers stood there until finally told off. As a Jailer at MMRF its is complete and utter **** **** that this happened. Then to top it all off a security member came and told us, as the EMT's where there, that we needed to dispurse, that were were creating a show. I say that the Jailers of Holly MADE US THE SHOW,despite our efforts to respectfully bow out. No disrespect was meant, but at this point it is all anyone is going to see, so no reason to try and change your minds now.
MMRF is a new faire and is learning the ropes. Yes, perhaps a little more digging was needed, but it is a lesson learned. We did not take over Mayfaire, trust me I was there, working with Jim and playing Mary Tudor, we did not steal the show infact Julie who plays the Queen loved having us there, and since she is a good friend of me and my parents, whe would have said if we were a problem. So no MMRF did not do a hostile take over of Mayfaire nor did we take over Holly.
To the person who says she will assemble a court and show up to MMRF, I say I would welcome you, again it is called IMPROV! Perhaps when you do bring your court, as a blast from the past for King Henry, I certainly would not arrest you and parade you around town like that and neither would the rest of my jailers. We at MMRF are classy and will take whatever you throw at us, because we stick together and we are a family. As a family no disrespect was ever meant, but again whether you belive that is up to you. So Your Court would not be turned away, and would be most welcome, please bring Anne Bolyn back, I am sure her sweet cousin Cathrine Howard would be over joyed to see her cousin again, just saying that We are an Historic faire, with a splash of fantasy.
So my rant done, MMRF waves a giant white flag, issue over.
Lets put all of this nonsence behind us and move on with the festival season, there are many weeks left and I intend to make the most of them. Have a nice week everyone.
Quote from: gypsyqueenie on September 09, 2009, 12:14:41 PM
Me thinks now endeth the lesson
Hatchet et al buried - moving on...[/i]
Methinks lesson may have ended, but doubtless the fallout has not. As much love as I bear you, GQ, I think it wrong to expect this to go away now, simply because you have spoken.
Everyone here who was offended or has an opinion about this very recent event has the right to forgive or not the incident as it befits their own conscience. Once that is done, then we can all get to the
moving on.
Quote from: Katie Bookwench on September 09, 2009, 07:29:29 AM
And Dale? I think this is your cue to develop a new show for KOI based on Richard III, and bring your entire cast to MMRF as well – or maybe Henry VII? No need to call ahead –according to this post, MMRF welcome you and your actors with open arms, even if your King would confuse the bejeebus out of their patrons when they see their Henry VIII.
C'mon Tracy, you know me. I only put on costumes when I am getting paid to do so. I am kind of mercenary that way. You have to remember that no one at Knights of Iron actually thinks we are the characters that we portray. I have played everyone from Kenickie in Grease, to Porthos, The Sheriff, and the Captain of the Guard at MRF, to Oberon in Midsummer. When the curtain closes, or the cannon fires, the costume comes off, and the character is done. The reason Robin Hood beats the Sheriff every day is because of THE SCRIPT, not his amazing ability to take a licking and keep on ticking.
I think if everyone kept this perspective, there would probably be fewer problems and entitlement issues.
Quote from: Katie Bookwench on September 09, 2009, 07:29:29 AM
After all, the Day of Wrong is a tradition begun by someone, somewhere – so who's to say I can't start a new tradition – a second Day Of Wrong, during MMRF, and that way, I'd have a handy excuse to come as a problematic character to the cast, just because I think that it would be fun for me, get me attention, and promote my new show.
Just remember I bought all kinds of stuff out of Star Trek: The Experience when it closed in Las Vegas. I have 2 Klingon uniforms, 5 Ferengi costumes, a ton of Starfleet stuff, and 3 Borg masks.
It could happen...
LDW
oooh for the Halloweenie Party -Wedge can do the Ferengi and Austin and I can do the Borg - we must remember with Wedge to rub the ears - teeehehehehehe
Quote from: L Dale Walter on September 09, 2009, 01:32:01 PM
C'mon Tracy, you know me. I only put on costumes when I am getting paid to do so.
Oh, I totally get that. I was just trying to make a point about bringing characters to a show that directly conflicted with the show's established characters.
Like I had said earlier, you're well aware that bringing King Richard in for the final act at MIRF would be impossible.
Quote from: L Dale Walter on September 09, 2009, 01:32:01 PM
I think if everyone kept this perspective, there would probably be fewer problems and entitlement issues.
You'll get no argument from me there. ;)
Quote from: Katie Bookwench on September 09, 2009, 07:29:29 AM
Just remember I bought all kinds of stuff out of Star Trek: The Experience when it closed in Las Vegas. I have 2 Klingon uniforms, 5 Ferengi costumes, a ton of Starfleet stuff, and 3 Borg masks.
It could happen...
LDW
Trolls, Ferengis, Klingons I can deal with - both in and out of character -- because they don't undermine the established show. Simple enough. But I know you understand what I'm saying, so I needen't preach to the choir.
I think you'd make an excellent Klingon, actually. ...
I'm confused by the Rantpologies.
The white flag was waved, let it drop. Both sides agreed multiple posts ago to just let it go, yet everytime I log in another Rantpology from someone who somehow feels wronged pops up.
Deep breath let it go.
A mistake was made, everyone seemed to have agreed to walk away and call it good, and then someone pops on to toss another gallon of upsetoline on the fire.
Call it lesson learned and do better next time.
Lady Gwyndolin, I'm still your friend and still care about you. I have talked to Jim Sarge about what happened last year, but other management? No. He witnessed it and it was left to him what to do with it. It was one incident in an otherwise lovely, but COLD fall day.
I do think courtesy was broken and more forethought should have gone into the whole process. As for the jailers, they are supposed to respect health issues and I am positive the powers that be are reading this and making notes.
I don't want hurt on any level, but I ran into a bunch of you and you know me, not you LG, and you turned your heads like I was not there. That stung and did seem to me to be rather a tad sneaky. It put a negative face on it for me from the get-go.
White flags have been waved, but as someone wiser than I said, it's going to be up to the individuals that were bothered by this how to deal with it. It was out of time and confusing to patrons (forgive my spelling from earlier, btw, I usually make more sense). It's not me that matters at Festival. I'm a cog and, in the end, how I feel matters not one whit. It's what the patrons and playtrons thought that matters. Who is really in charge at HG? Why is her Majesty's father there? Dressed in white...still a faux pas, but not a bad one. Dressed respenantly in royal purple? Confuddling to say the very least.
Robin Hood is a play within a show. Koi is not cast, rather a fanciful entertainment and it is handled wonderfully. I actually thought it was a dorky idea at first. I was darn wrong and proud to admit it. Besides, I like spitting after I pass the Prince. Makes my day shiny and bright. :)
Again, if you had contacted management, promotions...I don't know, but it might be different. I just can't do MMRF this year. Not after being hurt last year and not after this. Maybe next year would be better for me. I want to hope so. It was a bad idea and that no one stood up and said, let's think this through...it bothers me. Again LG, I care about you a great deal. You have always been very kind to me and I hope I to you. I suspect you participating shocked me deeply, because you seem to think things through so well.
I've spoken my piece and yes, I am loyal to MirF. They've tolerated a lot from me. They've made me a home and gifted me with friends I adore. It's like your first close friend. I appreciate my Festival more than I can say. Stupidly loyal? Maybe so, but with my hectic life, I'm allowed a little dog-like devotion to people who gave a middle age chick a chance.
Quote from: Shadbolt8 on September 09, 2009, 04:47:08 PM
The white flag was waved, let it drop. Both sides agreed multiple posts ago to just let it go, yet everytime I log in another Rantpology from someone who somehow feels wronged pops up.
Deep breath let it go.
A mistake was made, everyone seemed to have agreed to walk away and call it good, and then someone pops on to toss another gallon of upsetoline on the fire.
Call it lesson learned and do better next time.
Dude....you is SO not Klingon material. ;D
Quote from: nliedel on September 09, 2009, 05:17:20 PM
Robin Hood is a play within a show. Koi is not cast, rather a fanciful entertainment and it is handled wonderfully. I actually thought it was a dorky idea at first. I was darn wrong and proud to admit it. Besides, I like spitting after I pass the Prince. Makes my day shiny and bright. :)
First, thank you.
We have seen a huge change in the attitude of the cast over the past 3 weekends. I don't know what kind of demons people had been told that we at Knights of Iron were, but I am glad to see that once people actually met my cast, and saw the show, that they realized that they may have been wrong.
Second: How come we keep getting mentioned in this thread?
Knights of Iron had nothing at all to do with MMRF's cast coming to MiRF. No KOI character EVER came to MiRF when we were not under contract. No musketeers, no pirates, no Robin Hood appeared during 2006, 2007, nor 2008. We did come as Trolls one year, but that is something different entirely. I made it clear to all of my team, and the SLRF people that came as well, that they were to "Yes and" WHATEVER you are given, to NOT interfere with cast in any way, and to support the reality of MiRF. We were all arrested as well, and made a huge bit out of it, claiming "racial profiling" and then ridiculous legal claims when QE showed up. I tried to invoke the "Magna Carta", and when that didn't work, "Prima Note". On that failing we tried "Linguini with Clam Sauce", and so it went...
I visited KCRF in 2005 with my Musketeers upon invitation of Jim Stamberger, the ED at KCRF. The first thing we did was to meet with the cast and establish boundaries on how this was going to work. We had a GREAT time and played with everyone from the Fops, to their Prostitutes Guild (yes they have one, and it works...). We MC'ed smoker, were guests at the joust, and judged a costume contest. Basically we said "We are here, what would YOU like us to do?"
Subsequently, we have a standing invitation to visit any time we would like.
Hopefully the MMRF crew learned something from this. Like I tell my crew at KOI all the time "There are good ways to do things, and bad ways to do things. Often the ACTION is the same, but the RESULT can differ greatly."
Again, your mileage may vary...
L. Dale Walter
Director
Knights of Iron
Quote from: Katie Bookwench on September 09, 2009, 06:30:13 PM
Dude....you is SO not Klingon material. ;D
Or maybe he is. A Klingon proverb says:
pujwI' HIvlu'chugh quvbe'lu'
(There is no honour in attacking the weak)
The flag of surrender has been raised. The battle over.
Qapla'LDW
[/quote]
Dude....you is SO not Klingon material. ;D
[/quote]
Maybe ...maybe not...I declined to publish one of my world famous rants and instead edited down to what you saw....
I'm more of a Romulan anyway
Quote from: Shadbolt8 on September 09, 2009, 06:47:08 PM
I'm more of a Romulan anyway
Crap, and me without a Romulan Costume for ya...
HOWEVER, there is a Romulan headpiece on Ebay from ST:TE right now...
Just sayin,
LDW
Dale and Mr. Shadbolt8,
Personally I don't care if you show up as Romulans or Klingons.
Just as long as you are wearing the skin tight spandex jumpsuit uniforms of the Piccard era.
Please.
Pretty please with sugar on it.
;)
I encourage all to use this as an opportunity to seek out and explore all the nuances of faire/theatre courtesy you can.
Here's a link to "The Player's Handbook of Basics for the Serious Renaissance Faire Playtron" (http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=9044.0). It doesn't address what's been discussed here but I think it does speak to the spirit.
And Engage.....Set Spandex to STUN!
Full speed ahead Shadbolt out
All right, I just have one more thing to say.
Klingon in a kilt.
It's gotta be done.
Dale, KOI is mentioned because it is out of time and place and includes a second king, who, were he still alive, would negate our Queen, since she was not born, at the time. Which is what got a lot of us all pissy in the first place. We are, to say the very least, like pit-bulls when it comes to our precious Elisabeth. No one messes with our girl! I'm still too scared of her (seriously, it's pathetic) and so many people respect her. At least that was my take on it. So, it's a fair, or faire (insert snort) comparison.
We had no issues with you personally. Tom and Michelle are friends of mine and they both went out of their way to tell me I was full of it and to watch and see. I hate, "I told you so's," but I had that one handed to me on a silver platter with a big fat rose (I'm allergic). I also told my higher-ups I think all of you are great. Not that it makes a difference, I'm a lowly second year, but I calls em as I sees em and I was WRONG. Boo-hoo, I hate being wrong. Okay, it happens so often I'm used to it.
Koi is respectful to the cast and is becoming part of the cast. I have been played with by a couple of your members and it's great fun. I'm busy most of the day (HOORAY! Love that), but when I'm not I interact and play along, watch your fights when I get the opportunity, etc. Great group you have there.
Okay, back to the subject at hand. Everyone has their right to speak up about how they felt and why. Even if white flags were waved, apologies dealt, etc. There is a lot of emotion behind some of these posts, but the debate is mature, thoughtful and not meant to hurt. I've seen some sincerity questioned, but I would expect that. I think we're all handling this in a controlled manner that does not debase the other faire/fest. I'm proud of all sides for their maturity and honor and it just shows me Rennies, even if they have a beef, are pretty decent people at heart.
Not that it matters what I say, but I like this discussion. It helps hash it all out, instead of building resentment between people. It allows those of us who need to talk things out, a chance to do so. Some people don't like to re-hash, just say their peace and move on. I respect that, but there are those, like me, who want to pull the flower out of the field, examine every part of it and spread the seeds after. That too, is a valid position to take.
Anyway, there's a little fall-out. I suspect life will go on and everyone will get over this, save for those who hold grudges and those people will have other issues to deal with in time. Are some people angry? Of course. Does everyone care? No. Are all people's feelings valid? Yes. Hope this makes more sense than yesterday morning's post. Reading it back makes me look like I'm on crack. Snort.
Quote from: L Dale Walter on September 09, 2009, 06:37:49 PM
How come we keep getting mentioned in this thread?
I think I started that - I was holding you and your group up as an example of being responsible, professional and intelligent performers.
Thusly:
Traditionally, a Robin Hood storyline ends with King Richard returning to England and resolving the John/Nottingham scourge and rewarding Robin and Marian. But KOI knows that brining in a KING RICHARD OF ENGLAND would undermine the fact that Hollygrove has a monarch – QUEEN ELIZABETH OF ENGLAND – and it's pretty darn obvious that those two characters should NOT exist in the same show. You have dovetailed your show into the reality of MIRF's world, and it works well. I know people at first had a doubt about it, but I knew that between you and Maria, it would somehow work out. And it did.
Quote from: L Dale Walter on September 09, 2009, 06:37:49 PM
Knights of Iron had nothing at all to do with MMRF's cast coming to MiRF.
No KOI character EVER came to MiRF when we were not under contract.
I don't think anyone is confused about either of those two points - at least, I didn't read any post here that seemed to say that.
Like me, those people that have mentioned you or KOI have held you up as a
good example to follow.
...or to request that you appear in spandex. ;)
Quote from: Dark Wolf on September 08, 2009, 09:12:31 PM
As for the misconception that we "took over the show" at Mayfaire. Obviously the story line was not being followed. From the opening of the gate, to the end of day song, our court was asked to participate in Mayfaire for the entire run for several reasons. First of all to kick off what they hope to be an exciting event next year called the "Cloth of Gold Event". It is where they will be inviting the Royals from all festivals from all over the US and Canada to be apart of their festival. King Henry VIII and a very few members of his court was there to help them announce the exciting event.
I am not quoting you here Dark Wolf to bring up the issue of if one Court 'took over' another faire or not - I don't know, I don't care. However, I think your idea of the Cloth of Gold Event can help illustrate some of the issues that can arise from other Royals coming
as their Royal selves to another faire.
The idea is a good one - patrons enjoy seeing Royals in action. Now, the Queen who reigns at Mayfarie, I am uncertain if she is a historical Queen or not, but for the sake of argument, lets say the Court of MMRF, MIRF, Bristol and Scarby accept the invite and all plan to attend on the same weekend.
The Queen of Mayfaire has asked several people to come and play on her stage - in the environment that they and their entertainment director have worked hard to create. Into this world is coming King Henry VIII and his wife Anne of Cleaves from MMRF, King Henry and his wife Anne Boleyn from Scarby, Queen Elizabeth and her Court from MIRF as well as Queen Elizabeth and her Court from Bristol.
So - are these actors who have accepted her kind invitation: Are they going to remain in their current roles? If so, how does it get explained that there are 2 King Henrys. 2 Queen Elizabeths (and I am sure duplicates of all the major players of her Court) as well as an Ann who is divorced from HR in the time of the 3 other Courts and And Anne who is dead (along with HR) in the two Elizabethan courts and not around in England yet in the time of the HR/Ann of Cleaves Court.
The only other solution I can see is sending out the invite to attend the Cloth of Gold Event, but being told that they can come as 'royals' but not the roles they are used to playing.
Do you see what I am saying? Does it make sense why it is difficult for one entire Court to come to another faire even
with planning and forknowledge of the event? Now - imagine how disrupting it is when this event is unplanned....
Quote from: nliedel on September 10, 2009, 05:37:42 AM
Dale, KOI is mentioned because it is out of time and place and includes a second king, who, were he still alive, would negate our Queen, since she was not born, at the time. Which is what got a lot of us all pissy in the first place.
It isn't like one morning I woke up and said "You know what I want to do, really mess with the reality at MiRF, so I will bring a Robin Hood show, a 12th century story, and slam it into the court of Queen Elizabeth in the 16th century! Mu-ha-ha-ha-ha! That will fix them!"
I was driving to my parent's house to have dinner with them and Kathy Parker (MiRF General Manager) called and wanted to talk about bringing KOI back to MiRF. In subsequent discussions it was decided that Robin Hood was the best bet, given the short time frame, the simplicity of the story, and the desires of the faire's owner. The script went through several cuts, integrating and removing ideas, before the final was settled on.
Bottom line is I was HIRED to do the show, a
Robin Hood show. Whether Queen Elizabeth, or Queen Grace, or Queen Paris Hilton was the character chosen as the reigning monarch for that year, management hired me, and my team, to perform a Robin Hood show. It wasn't a conspiracy. Knights of Iron is a business, and is in the business of entertaining people, just like any other stage act. We're just doing a job here folks...
I think people need to remember that MiRF, for whatever emotional attachment it holds for whomever, is a business, and they hire (and fire) acts and performers as they see fit to best make their show appeal to the patrons. KOI did 2001-2005, then MiRF changed direction 2006-2008 and went with a different plan. That's business, plain and simple, and was made in an attempt to please patrons, reduce costs, or some other business variable.
Please also note also that "Rennies" make up less than 5% of your patrons at a show, but make up 95% of the posts on boards such as this, so what might be a big deal here, probably isn't to 95% of those who attend MiRF and other such shows.
How many times a day does Caroline, the performers making up the court, or the rest of the cast get asked "Where is the King?". We hear it constantly. Even if you tell people that QEI sits on the throne, most don't know that she never married. At one time it was even suggested by a 'person of authority that will not be named' that a King be created for QE as her husband. This idea, as you might expect, caused a minor rebellion until it was abandoned. Most people don't know history, and their enjoyment isn't effected by inconsistencies. It's like "Hey, we like Robin Hood, and we like Queen Elizabeth, so this is cool..." Some exceptions of course, but for the most part, the audience doesn't care. The KIDS sure as heck don't, although they may fail a history exam later on...
At Knights of Iron we have a saying "If it happened before you were born, it all probably happened about the same time..." Lincoln was giving the Gettysburg address, Egyptians were building the pyramids, Henry VIII was on the throne with King Arthur and someone named "Edward", the Chinese were inventing fireworks, and Washington was crossing the Delaware, ALL on a Tuesday, in the year "blah-blah-blah".
Bottom line is that although in the Ren Fest world what happened with the MMRF court may have been seen as an affront to the MiRF reality, and I agree it showed poor judgment, the effect on the show was negligible at best.
L. Dale Walter
Director
Knights of Iron
Quote from: Katie Bookwench on September 10, 2009, 06:43:13 AM
...or to request that you appear in spandex. ;)
Do you remember the last time I appeared in spandex? Jump in the WayBack machine for that one... ;)
LDW
Quote from: L Dale Walter on September 10, 2009, 08:51:15 AM
Do you remember the last time I appeared in spandex? Jump in the WayBack machine for that one... ;)
LDW
Worry not.....I could
never forget that. It's somewhat unfortunate, though, that all I have is my memories, and no actual photographic proof. ;)
...so warn us if you decide to do it someday, so I can have my camera ready, k?
Do people take Ren Faires so seriously that if they see more than one king/queen/royal court/period represented, etc..., it ruins their entire day???
I can understand the complaints if anyone thought this was disrespectful to our queen or our faire, but if it's all about historical correctness..... ::)
Does this mean that I have to get rid of my flintlock on my pirate costume since they weren't invented until after the Elisabethan period?
Attack of the post that wouldn't go away!!! AAAHHHHHHH
Quote from: Lord Virgil on September 10, 2009, 10:34:04 AM
Do people take Ren Faires so seriously that if they see more than one king/queen/royal court/period represented, etc..., it ruins their entire day???
Well, some people might... but I'm not one of those people. I came to grips with the historical anomalies a long time ago. In Hollygrove we play by special time/space contiuum rules. :D
Quote from: Lord Virgil on September 10, 2009, 10:34:04 AM
I can understand the complaints if anyone thought this was disrespectful to our queen or our faire, but if it's all about historical correctness..... ::)
No, it was really more about being disrespectful of the Show, and the Queen.
Like I had explained it to someone else, it's like showing up at your best friend's wedding dressed in a long white gown and a tiara with a veil.
Yes, some of the guests might be confused, but more importantly, you can bet the parents of the happy couple won't be amused, and you can bank on the fact that the Bride's feelings will be hurt.
....
especially if you look as good as Sealclubber looks in a dress! :D ;D
Ok I am not taking a position on this subject one way or the other and I am not going to point a finger at anyone. I personally feel this is a subject that needs to be discussed and that everyone's opinion on it is valuable. I am however going to suggest that perhaps this is not the correct place for those deeply hurt to hash it out. I do not yet feel that this subject has gotten to the point of needing to lock this thread but would like to remind everyone of the guidelines set for this forum. http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=452.0
As you can see, no personal attacks and no faire bashing are #1 and #2. We are starting to find our way into some of those areas. Please keep the spirit of this site and renaissance festivals in mind as you continue to post on this subject. And like I said, if it at all possible, work this out somewhere else.
Thank you
Flidais
*blush* Aww, shucks.
Quote from: Lord Virgil on September 10, 2009, 10:34:04 AM
Do people take Ren Faires so seriously that if they see more than one king/queen/royal court/period represented, etc..., it ruins their entire day???
I can understand the complaints if anyone thought this was disrespectful to our queen or our faire, but if it's all about historical correctness..... ::)
Does this mean that I have to get rid of my flintlock on my pirate costume since they weren't invented until after the Elisabethan period?
To say that my day would be 'ruined' by catching site of another king/queen/court is stretching it a bit because if our day at faire would be ruined by anachoristicst stuff - all those folks in jeans and t-shirts would have to go as well. As well as those who show up in Scooby Doo outfits. Especially those in Scooby Doo outfits carrying flintlock pistols. Thems the WORST!! ;)
However, resident cast and the faire itself strive to create a somewhat believable environment once you step inside the gates. They invite you on to their stage and ask that you believe that (in the case of MIRF) Queen Elizabeth is wandering around the village. They move from their homes, put in hours and days of preparation and rehearsal as well as much of their own money so they can ask us as patrons to come on in and pretend with them for a while.
I'd say it is them that have the right to be the most vexed/offended/peeved when someone comes in and messes with the atmosphere they strive to create.
Entertainment Directors have 'messed' with the actual time line of reality in search of entertainment value at faires for a long time. At MIRF we have had both Robin Hood and the Three Musketeers in the same story line - that was not too much to ask the audience to believe. We are a Renaissance festival, not a living history exhibit. We can do that.
However, there still need to be some 'guidelines'. It is OK to have QE with the Musketeers, but to have a story where QE is reigning over the land while Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn smile on while standing on the dais as well - not so much.
I mean, if stories like that start occurring, what's to stop an ED from pitching a story line for a faire that contains QE, Robin Hood, the French and Spanish scheming together to take the throne of England by sneaking in a roving band of pygmy mummies in to do the dirty work.
Quote from: Margaret on September 10, 2009, 12:40:36 PM
I mean, if stories like that start occurring, what's to stop an ED from pitching a story line for a faire that contains QE, Robin Hood, the French and Spanish scheming together to take the throne of England by sneaking in a roving band of pygmy mummies in to do the dirty work.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUGH! :o
I just had this momentary
daymare of Stephen Sommers taking over as ED of MIRF.
(*ya couldn't resist mentioning the PM's, could ya?*)
Quote from: Katie Bookwench on September 10, 2009, 12:59:48 PM
(*ya couldn't resist mentioning the PM's, could ya?*)
Not even one little bit!! ;D
Quote from: Margaret on September 10, 2009, 12:40:36 PM
At MIRF we have had both Robin Hood and the Three Musketeers in the same story line - that was not too much to ask the audience to believe. We are a Renaissance festival, not a living history exhibit. We can do that.
Not at the same time. In 2002 I was asked to do Robin Hood and the Three Musketeers fight together to save Queen Elizabeth. I refused, stating that crossing that many time lines would cause a dimensional vortex that would destroy us all. SO they did it in KC... ::sigh::
Hell, even Bristol did Robin Hood, stating that he "wasn't the REAL Robin Hood, but had taken up the mantle in defense of QE" OK, whatever works for ya...
The problem with the Elizabethan era is that not much happened. Hard to do Drake and the Spanish Armada without ships, and that is spendy. A show based on the consolidation of currency lacks much pizazz. The Siege of Le Havre? Not really a fun show. The Anglo-Spanish war really doesn't have any heroes, as Robert Dudley isn't well known. We could do the famous speech at Tillbury in Essex, but then there was NO INVASION, which makes it kind of anticlimactic in my book. No one wants us to fight Ireland in the Nine Years War, and a treaty with Morocco, the Ottoman Empire, or Japan isn't very exciting either. I don't even want to broach Catholics –vs- Protestants. You want letters? Do that one...
Even the straight up Musketeer story is awfully "court intrigue" to be understood by a festival crowd. People claim audiences don't follow plot, and a show based right on Dumas's book would prove them right...
So, what to do? I wish I knew. As a director I do the best I can with what I can work with.
Robin Hood. Kids dig it.
LDW
Quote from: Margaret on September 10, 2009, 12:40:36 PM
To say that my day would be 'ruined' by catching site of another king/queen/court is stretching it a bit because if our day at faire would be ruined by anachoristicst stuff - all those folks in jeans and t-shirts would have to go as well. As well as those who show up in Scooby Doo outfits. Especially those in Scooby Doo outfits carrying flintlock pistols. Thems the WORST!! ;)
That hurt :'(,
Them there's fightin' words, LOL :P (joking of course)
Quote from: Margaret on September 10, 2009, 12:40:36 PM
I mean, if stories like that start occurring, what's to stop an ED from pitching a story line for a faire that contains QE, Robin Hood, the French and Spanish scheming together to take the throne of England by sneaking in a roving band of pygmy mummies in to do the dirty work.
Wasn't that already done? Monte Python and/or Mel Brooks did all that and then some I think, ;D
I agree with Flidias that any further discussion should be kept to the act and reactions to said act, not anything directly attacking any individual or group. You can have a civil debate of a subject without personal attacks. Little humourous jibes like the one above by Margaret of course should be allowed as they are obviously in jest and I got a kick out of it.
So..... Whats the policy on weapons at the faire this year????
(He said hoping that THIS would be enough for the moderator to steer this one back on course and LOCK ER DOWN!!)
:)
Quote from: L Dale Walter on September 10, 2009, 01:14:42 PM
Not at the same time. In 2002 I was asked to do Robin Hood and the Three Musketeers fight together to save Queen Elizabeth. I refused, stating that crossing that many time lines would cause a dimensional vortex that would destroy us all. SO they did it in KC... ::sigh::
very exciting either. I don't even want to broach Catholics –vs- Protestants. You want letters? Do that one...
I'm sorry - I did not mean to imply that Robin Hood and The Muskateers were there at the same time.
I assumed that since most of us here are familiar with MIRF and the shows that have run in the past years, we would know that they were there different years.
Quote from: Lord Virgil on September 10, 2009, 01:25:19 PM
Little humourous jibes like the one above by Margaret of course should be allowed as they are obviously in jest and I got a kick out of it.
Good - because that was the way it was intended. :D
And - any time I can taunt Katie with pygmy mummies, it's a good time. Hee hee heee....
hahahaha.....pygmy mummies......have you ever seen the movie Buba Hotep? I think that's how it's spelled, I've never actually watched it but my brother owns it and from I can tell it's like Elvis mummies or something like that. har har
No Elvis is fighting Mummies
Quote from: Cateyes on September 10, 2009, 06:47:52 PM
No Elvis is fighting Mummies
OH!!! Gotcha I was always trying to understand why Elvis was a mummy. But that makes more sense. lol
and it stars Bruce Campbell.
Quote from: Cateyes on September 10, 2009, 06:47:52 PM
No Elvis is fighting Mummies
Oh you think this is so far fetched. I had a faire want me to do a "Legendary heroes -vs- legendary villians" show. It never got past concept, but the line up could have included:
Good guys: Batman, Racer X, Scooby Doo, Ultra Man, Mr. Spock, Abraham Lincoln, and the Harlem Globetrotters
Bad guys: Dracula, Snidely Whiplash, Hitler, Darth Vader, Goldfinger, and a zombie horde.
Now THAT is a show!
LDW
I miss the Musketeers. My wife and I started going to faire about 4 years ago and I am a big Dumas (one s no b) fan they were great.This is why one of my personas is a Musketeer.Everytime I see someone dressed as a Musketeer I ask them if they have word from the King and is the Cardinal causing trouble again.Sadly most have no idea what I am talking about. So when you see Charles de Montcalm Garde du Roy of the Grey Musketeers traveling the grounds with the Contessa Gabriella give a hearty "one for all and all for one" (hows that for hijacking a thread!)
Quote from: Lord Virgil on September 10, 2009, 10:34:04 AM
Do people take Ren Faires so seriously that if they see more than one king/queen/royal court/period represented, etc..., it ruins their entire day???
I can understand the complaints if anyone thought this was disrespectful to our queen or our faire, but if it's all about historical correctness..... ::)
Does this mean that I have to get rid of my flintlock on my pirate costume since they weren't invented until after the Elisabethan period?
Lice and plague, you forgot your lice and plage and if you've bathed anytime since spring, off with your head.
Dale, I hope it came across, loud and clear, that I am eating a large portion of crow because I was 100% wrong about you and your group. You're a fabulous addition and I was pond scum for ever thinking you would not be. You all fantastic and work well in the group, and cast as well as the day at MRF. Just blown away, am I.
No, I'm not sucking up. I really mean that.
Quote from: renfairephotog on September 10, 2009, 06:55:23 PM
and it stars Bruce Campbell.
even better: Bruce Campbell IS Elvis!
Old Elvis. Old Elvis, in a nursing home.
Old Elvis, in a nursing home....with a rather interesting case of...well, you folks will just have to rent it. ;D
Great movie. Wierd as all get out, but great.
Quote from: Katie Bookwench on September 11, 2009, 07:58:20 AM
Quote from: renfairephotog on September 10, 2009, 06:55:23 PM
and it stars Bruce Campbell.
even better: Bruce Campbell IS Elvis!
Old Elvis. Old Elvis, in a nursing home.
Old Elvis, in a nursing home....with a rather interesting case of...well, you folks will just have to rent it. ;D
Great movie. Wierd as all get out, but great.
Bubba Ho-Tep rocks. Unfortunately, the sequel will be lacking Bruce Campbell, but *will* star Ron Perlman and Paul Giamatti (for whom I possess a healthy dose of hetero-man-love).
When I first started playing Elizabeth here at MiRF, I heard the question often. After all, I took the role after years of having a king and queen here. Ten years of hard work has created this fair an Elizabethan faire. That coupled with the numerous movies (Shakepeare in Love, Elizabeth, The Golden Age, etc.) even with their numerous historical inaccuracies, has helped further to educate people on Elizabeth. Many of my bits regarding a husband are rarely pulled out any more. In fact, this year, I think I have only done the no-husband bits maybe three times!
Quote from: L Dale Walter on September 10, 2009, 08:44:32 AM
How many times a day does Caroline, the performers making up the court, or the rest of the cast get asked "Where is the King?". We hear it constantly.
Quote from: Madge Estes on September 11, 2009, 02:39:20 PM
When I first started playing Elizabeth here at MiRF, I heard the question often. After all, I took the role after years of having a king and queen here. Ten years of hard work has created this fair an Elizabethan faire. That coupled with the numerous movies (Shakepeare in Love, Elizabeth, The Golden Age, etc.) even with their numerous historical inaccuracies, has helped further to educate people on Elizabeth. Many of my bits regarding a husband are rarely pulled out any more. In fact, this year, I think I have only done the no-husband bits maybe three times!
Quote from: L Dale Walter on September 10, 2009, 08:44:32 AM
How many times a day does Caroline, the performers making up the court, or the rest of the cast get asked "Where is the King?". We hear it constantly.
"No *NEED* of a husband." I'm close enough to hear it in the morning and the way you look at Burleigh, should make the mans blood run cold. It's hysterical. The best part about it, is that it's an aside not everybody gets to enjoy. It's conversational and not overplayed. When the Vulgarians asked about your children, today, I not only heard a couple of the cast members say, "we are your children," but a couple of the playtrons as well. I was really thrilled that the people are getting that part of her story. That she not only was a brilliant politician, but a mother to all of England. It was what made her a great queen. Not that she held power, and stayed off usurpers, but that she did it in a way that made her countrymen love her.
Quote from: nliedel on September 13, 2009, 09:47:56 PM
When the Vulgarians asked about your children, today, I not only heard a couple of the cast members say, "we are your children," but a couple of the playtrons as well.
.... Aw heck, ve have a lot more people to kill then...
Quote from: Madge Estes on September 11, 2009, 02:39:20 PM
When I first started playing Elizabeth here at MiRF, I heard the question often. After all, I took the role after years of having a king and queen here. Ten years of hard work has created this fair an Elizabethan faire. That coupled with the numerous movies (Shakepeare in Love, Elizabeth, The Golden Age, etc.) even with their numerous historical inaccuracies, has helped further to educate people on Elizabeth. Many of my bits regarding a husband are rarely pulled out any more. In fact, this year, I think I have only done the no-husband bits maybe three times!
It's very possible that they are not asking about the king to QE, but -A- king, as there have been numerous ones at MiRF in the last 10 years, including Spanish, French, German, and that guy in blue who didn't work at MiRF but kept telling people he was king. With none of them here in 2009, and assuming that the average patron comes every 2-3 years, it is very possible that the last time they were at MiRF there was a king.
LDW
"alot more people to kill"
Oh yes and with the invasion of the Outlanders and their allies the Brethren of the Great Lakes this coming weekend- we as QEI's personal privateers/mercs and our Fleets et al make it nearly impossible for the Spanish Armada - hmmm - kinda reminds me of the burning boat I did near the fountain mmm??
I indeed do pity the Spanish.... - nah - but I do like their jewelry :0 (pilfering as we speak)
Always in your service,
AMR
What's funny though is that even if Queen Elizabeth had married. I don't think the people of England would've thought him/a king as powerful as Queen Elizabeth, Because of her running the kingdom so smoothly for as long as she did, and she probably wouldn't let him possess as much power. Though it may have been a man's world back then. Queen Elizabeth was the exception to the rule. If you think about it. We only want to change presidents if they are no good, so why would they want to replace a good Queen with a King, just because he's male. Times were changing then, and times were getting better.
Pipere,
I absolutely LOVE your new character this year. I'm happy to see you more involved in the whole show, not just the opening skit (as well as the one who played Pandora last year, she's a hoot too!). You (and your male counterpart) are so much fun to watch, and your interactions with the crowd are AWESOME! Keep up the good work and please pass on the compliments to your fellow Vulgarians!!
Hail Vulgaria...Hail Yes!!
Aww, well thank you Virgil, I can really appreciate that coming from somebody such as yourself who attends regularly. I have to say, I'm enjoying the character switch too and I'll pass that along to my brother and cousin.
(Blood makes the grass grow:Kill! Kill! Kill!)
Pipere actually smiles her head off back stage. I love seeing her and Sean love doing this part so very much.
The evil that oozes from her always comes with a satisfaction I find disturbing, in a really good way. It's darn hard to play evil at a Festival and she has it down pat. Evil and ridiculous. So perfect.
Oh, you can tell Pipere and her fellow Vulgarians are having a great time playing these characters. Getting to be bad can be way more fun than being good. As long as you play it like they do (they consider the boos as cheers) it's gotta be fun to do. I harass them every time they pass the pub and you can acutally see their faces light up as you boo them, great fun!!
I want to be a mute Vulgarian please I would be great at it I never say anything. And I would like to note I read this whole thread while I was at work :)
Don't let them at work find that out. I used to access this site at work, and evryone else accessed their sites they liked as well when things got slow. But, now nobody can access any sites that aren't work related even on lunch break.
True but im the IT guy lol but thanks
Well Severus if you're really interested in the idea then go to Michigan Renaissance Festival Cast Auditions! They're being held on Sunday March 14th, at Varner Hall at Oakland University from 12-3. If you're terribly keen, then you can pitch your idea of becoming part of our horrible family!
Wow, that seems early for auditions, but before you know it it'll be faire season. And acting is quite a tough job. And I can say that because I played 5 parts in a high school play of A Christmas Carol, and ran lighting for the play Grease. Both, are more challenging that one thinks. Memorizing lines is the toughest, and then ad-libing when someone or yourself forgets. Good Luck to one and all.
I have no dog in this hunt, so I will not weigh in on it. I have had only 3 occasions where royalty has showed up as royalty. Two were visiting Kings from other faires that I had invited to promote their faires. One wore a crown and the other did not. I did not have a problem either way. The other was a guy in an actual Burger King outfit. That one bugged me, so I did the the polite thing, I sic'd Captain Jack Sparrow and all the pirates we could muster on him. He did not have time to interfere and I think he got the message and left. However my point in posting is that early in this thread there was a mention of an invite to all of the Royals of all of the faires for a gathering in a sort of "Field of the Cloth of Gold" type of event at some faire this year. Has anyone moved forward on that and tried to set that up???? I think it would an interesting event.
As far as I know, Mayfaire is still working on that.
Quote from: Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman on March 10, 2010, 12:52:56 AM
As far as I know, Mayfaire is still working on that.
Would you send send me any link to the chief cook and bottle washer for that??????
http://www.mayfaireren.com/ contact info should be on there somewhere. :)