Purely Hypothetical Question -

[Noble Dreg]

...Children make a small portion of the attendees and have no money.  "Families" have very little discretionary money available these days.  They will NOT likely spend it at a RenFaire.  They'll go elsewhere...My feelings are that kids do not belong at the faire, but that the accomodations already made suffice well enough.

Don't know what your situation is but I have a very different point of view, allow me to explain.  Yep, kids have no money, but their parents do.  I personally know two vendors who make their entire income each year selling "kids" stuff at several fairs.  We spend hundreds on children's garb each year.  Plenty more on food and drink.  Admission, toys, keepsakes, the list goes on.

It is certainly fair to bring up "bawdy" shows and children in the same thread as they are intertwined.  So no kids eh?  Well there goes one of my favorite performers, the impish Fae Twig.  No kids, no Twig.  No kids, no Children's Trilogy of Games.  No kids, no giant rocking horse.  Half the hair-braid clients are children.  I'd dare say more than half the face painters clients are children.  The Elephant rides, pony rides, swings, children's realm.  Wax hands, the "Chicken Couple, even "Dragons Eggs" are big time draw for the school aged attendee.

Make no mistake, the financial impact of children at Fest is a whole lot bigger than you give credit.  To insinuate that children do not belong at fest is to say adults do not belong in Disneyland.  Room for both, no need to keep any group of any age out.

[Random Girl]

Ok most of you on here are patrons, yes yes some of you work there but a lot are just pay as you go daysiders.

So let me ask you, hypothetically, how would you feel if MNRF became 100% family friendly.  No more bawdiness, no more vil, Fitz might have to become a mime, Gordy couldn't hump trees....think about it.  Would you be more inclined to bring your family?  Would you be bored out of your mind? Do you think it's too bawdy now to bring your kids?  Will they be scarred for life by catching a passing insult from Vil?

I'm just curious.

::Edit to add::
Adding to this, what would you like to see out there that would appeal to a wider array of audience?  What do you think could be done to segregate yet have a balance between adult and minor audiences?  What do you think should just go away to make things better for everyone?

So how hypothetical is this question?

At this point?  Quite hypothetical...a few months from now...who knows.

[Captain Jack Wolfe]

I sincerely hope this wrong-headed idea dies on the vine.  It's asinine.

[Noble Dreg]

Hey watch the language Jack!   

I cannot imagine MNRF without Vil Tennis!

I bring the kids too! (not)

[groomporter]

I wouldn't worry about losing Vil altogether, they're amazingly talented folks who could probably do a cleaner show if they had to. In fact it might be funnier at time watching them try not to say some things  If there is something funky in the wind I hope you paying customers a give MAF feedback via phone or Email before voting with your feet.

[William_MacKean]

So how hypothetical is this question?

According to a rumor I heard from someone who attended a recent meeting:  Not very hypothetical at all.

There can be a balance struck.  In the past (distant) the balance was a bit bawdy.  But forcing the balance the other way will change the scope in a way that may not recover in time to generate the new style revenue.  If we had a long term shift model to work with, it could be done.  But I have my suspicions that this will not be the case.

Now, "Children's Day" other than Fest Friday might be a way to test the water.  BUT it would need to be well advertised so that children come and bar flies do not... as much.  And ALL acts would need to have such a show as to not offend the uptight parents who think their kids understand inuendo as well as they think they do.

[Ethel]

I wouldn't worry about losing Vil altogether, they're amazingly talented folks who could probably do a cleaner show if they had to. In fact it might be funnier at time watching them try not to say some things  If there is something funky in the wind I hope you paying customers a give MAF feedback via phone or Email before voting with your feet.

I'm actually looking forward to doing a cleaner vil show.  We were talking about this in email a week or two back, and I am firmly of the opinion that if we have to rely on poop jokes and shock value to pound out a good quality show, we've reached the point where we should walk away.  I think that doing a cleaner show for the fest and bawdier shows elsewhere will give us a great opportunity to grow the show itself for other venues, as well as each of us as individual performers and "artists."

[Lady_Lily]

I have read through things and don't think it would be possible to make the festival 100% family friendly and still draw in money.
The big names aren't quite 100% family friendly if you think about it. I don't forsee them telling Puke 'n Snot, The Tortuga Twins, or any of the other big attendance drawing shows to make it all faeries and princesses.

I don't think children need to be protected, but I do realize that they draw in a lot of profit. I love our fest the way it is and the loss of the more adult humored things would suck, but from another aspect...if the most complained about things were made to be something to complain about less and more people were drawn to attend the festival and more money was pulled in. Maybe then it may create more of an incentive to put more into it and there may actually be improvements to parts of it rather than letting it crumble. Just a thought...it would suck if some of the fun/crude things were removed, but I think I may see managements thoughts for drawing a crowd and bringing money in with the economy being crappy and all.

[Poco the Pirate]

I think some are missing my meaning.  There is a difference between somewhere kids can go and somewhere kids truly belong.  It's 'exposure vs immersion.'  Expose?  Fine.  Immerse?  Not so much.  But that also depends on the level of participation of the parents and the individual child.



I'm going to have to agree with that.  I've been attending fair all my life and started working at the soda booth next to the puke n snot show since i was 7.  this will be my 11th year working there plus attending many other fairs and i turned out just fine. but it does depend on the child because i know my mom wouldnt take my autistic little brother till he was older and truly understood what was a joke and what wasnt. personally i think MNRF has changed enough over the last decade.

[Lady L]

Does it have anything to do with the long sexual harrassment policy? I received it in my shopkeepers packet. It states that there is to be no flirting, intentional or unintentional, among other things. Remember a few year's ago, when the belly dancers had to cover their midriffs?

[groomporter]

Last year there was a pedophilia/incest joke that apparently spurred complaints to the point that later in the run Carr announced at cast call a ban on such jokes on pain of being fired. I would suspect it might be partially a (over)reaction to that.

[escherblacksmith]

Does it have anything to do with the long sexual harrassment policy? I received it in my shopkeepers packet. It states that there is to be no flirting, intentional or unintentional, among other things. Remember a few year's ago, when the belly dancers had to cover their midriffs?

wow . . . well, that should put a damper on things . . . luckily I operate with open hostility and arrogance, which are still O-kay.

[Captain Jack Wolfe]

Well... there goes half the fun of shopping. 

[Cobaltblu]

Does it have anything to do with the long sexual harrassment policy? I received it in my shopkeepers packet. It states that there is to be no flirting, intentional or unintentional, among other things. Remember a few year's ago, when the belly dancers had to cover their midriffs?

I thought making people cover their navals went away in the 1960's.

No sexual harassment, err I mean...no flirting at a renaissance festival???

If that is specified in the vendor rules I assume that is also true for the different stage acts and the people on cast?  And how do you prevent unintentional flirting?

And what about all the women in garb showing cleavage...will they include a burka for all women to wear who come to the faire showing cleavage?

If they have a sexual harassment policy like this that means no acts or actors could do or say anything baudy at all because in an open-air environment they would likely be "sexually harassing" someone.

Please tell me this is a misguided rule which they merely wrote for insurance reasons and do not enforce.

Regards,

CB

[groomporter]

I believe the harassment policy is mainly a "cover their own butts", "just in case" policy and is quite separate from any talk of toning down the bawdiness of the performances which I believe is probably more related to specific complaints (see my post above about the last year's ban on certain jokes)