Other Royalty?

[John]

I encourage all to use this as an opportunity to seek out and explore all the nuances of faire/theatre courtesy you can.

Here's a  link to "The Player's Handbook of Basics for the Serious Renaissance Faire Playtron".  It doesn't address what's been discussed here but I think it does speak to the spirit.

[Shadbolt8]

And Engage.....Set Spandex to STUN!

Full speed ahead Shadbolt out

[Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman]

All right, I just have one more thing to say.

Klingon in a kilt.

It's gotta be done.

[nliedel]

Dale, KOI is mentioned because it is out of time and place and includes a second king, who, were he still alive, would negate our Queen, since she was not born, at the time. Which is what got a lot of us all pissy in the first place. We are, to say the very least, like pit-bulls when it comes to our precious Elisabeth. No one messes with our girl! I'm still too scared of her (seriously, it's pathetic) and so many people respect her. At least that was my take on it. So, it's a fair, or faire (insert snort) comparison.

We had no issues with you personally. Tom and Michelle are friends of mine and they both went out of their way to tell me I was full of it and to watch and see. I hate, "I told you so's," but I had that one handed to me on a silver platter with a big fat rose (I'm allergic). I also told my higher-ups I think all of you are great. Not that it makes a difference, I'm a lowly second year, but I calls em as I sees em and I was WRONG. Boo-hoo, I hate being wrong. Okay, it happens so often I'm used to it.

Koi is respectful to the cast and is becoming part of the cast. I have been played with by a couple of your members and it's great fun. I'm busy most of the day (HOORAY! Love that), but when I'm not I interact and play along, watch your fights when I get the opportunity, etc. Great group you have there.

Okay, back to the subject at hand. Everyone has their right to speak up about how they felt and why. Even if white flags were waved, apologies dealt, etc. There is a lot of emotion behind some of these posts, but the debate is mature, thoughtful and not meant to hurt. I've seen some sincerity questioned, but I would expect that. I think we're all handling this in a controlled manner that does not debase the other faire/fest. I'm proud of all sides for their maturity and honor and it just shows me Rennies, even if they have a beef, are pretty decent people at heart.

Not that it matters what I say, but I like this discussion. It helps hash it all out, instead of building resentment between people. It allows those of us who need to talk things out, a chance to do so. Some people don't like to re-hash, just say their peace and move on. I respect that, but there are those, like me, who want to pull the flower out of the field, examine every part of it and spread the seeds after. That too, is a valid position to take.

Anyway, there's a little fall-out. I suspect life will go on and everyone will get over this, save for those who hold grudges and those people will have other issues to deal with in time. Are some people angry? Of course. Does everyone care? No. Are all people's feelings valid? Yes. Hope this makes more sense than yesterday morning's post. Reading it back makes me look like I'm on crack. Snort.

[Katie Bookwench]

How come we keep getting mentioned in this thread? 

I think I started that - I was holding you and your group up as an example of being responsible, professional and intelligent performers.

Thusly: Traditionally, a Robin Hood storyline ends with King Richard returning to England and resolving the John/Nottingham scourge and rewarding Robin and Marian. But KOI knows that brining in a KING RICHARD OF ENGLAND would undermine the fact that Hollygrove has a monarch – QUEEN ELIZABETH OF ENGLAND – and it's pretty darn obvious that those two characters should NOT exist in the same show.

You have dovetailed your show into the reality of MIRF's world, and it works well. I know people at first had a doubt about it, but I knew that between you and Maria, it would somehow work out. And it did.

Knights of Iron had nothing at all to do with MMRF's cast coming to MiRF. 

No KOI character EVER came to MiRF when we were not under contract. 

I don't think anyone is confused about either of those two points - at least, I didn't read any post here that seemed to say that.

Like me, those people that have mentioned you or KOI have held you up as a good example to follow.

...or to request that you appear in spandex. 

[Margaret]

As for the misconception that we "took over the show" at Mayfaire. Obviously the story line was not being followed.  From the opening of the gate, to the end of day song, our court was asked to participate in Mayfaire for the entire run for several reasons.  First of all to kick off what they hope to be an exciting event next year called the "Cloth of Gold Event".  It is where they will be inviting the Royals from all festivals from all over the US and Canada to be apart of their festival.  King Henry VIII and a very few members of his court was there to help them announce the exciting event.  

I am not quoting you here Dark Wolf to bring up the issue of if one Court 'took over' another faire or not - I don't know, I don't care.  However, I think your idea of the Cloth of Gold Event can help illustrate some of the issues that can arise from other Royals coming as their Royal selves to another faire.

The idea is a good one - patrons enjoy seeing Royals in action.  Now, the Queen who reigns at Mayfarie, I am uncertain if she is a historical Queen or not, but for the sake of argument, lets say the Court of MMRF, MIRF, Bristol and Scarby accept the invite and all plan to attend on the same weekend.

The Queen of Mayfaire has asked several people to come and play on her stage - in the environment that they and their entertainment director have worked hard to create.  Into this world is coming King Henry VIII and his wife Anne of Cleaves from MMRF, King Henry and his wife Anne Boleyn from Scarby, Queen Elizabeth and her Court from MIRF as well as Queen Elizabeth and her Court from Bristol.

So - are these actors who have accepted her kind invitation:  Are they going to remain in their current roles?  If so, how does it get explained that there are 2 King Henrys.  2 Queen Elizabeths (and I am sure duplicates of all the major players of her Court) as well as an Ann who is divorced from HR in the time of the 3 other Courts and And Anne who is dead (along with HR) in the two Elizabethan courts and not around in England yet in the time of the HR/Ann of Cleaves Court.

The only other solution I can see is sending out the invite to attend the Cloth of Gold Event, but being told that they can come as 'royals' but not the roles they are used to playing.

Do you see what I am saying?  Does it make sense why it is difficult for one entire Court to come to another faire even with planning and forknowledge of the event?  Now - imagine how disrupting it is when this event is unplanned....

[L Dale Walter]

Dale, KOI is mentioned because it is out of time and place and includes a second king, who, were he still alive, would negate our Queen, since she was not born, at the time. Which is what got a lot of us all pissy in the first place. 

It isn't like one morning I woke up and said "You know what I want to do, really mess with the reality at MiRF, so I will bring a Robin Hood show, a 12th century story, and slam it into the court of Queen Elizabeth in the 16th century!  Mu-ha-ha-ha-ha!  That will fix them!"

I was driving to my parent's house to have dinner with them and Kathy Parker (MiRF General Manager) called and wanted to talk about bringing KOI back to MiRF.  In subsequent discussions it was decided that Robin Hood was the best bet, given the short time frame, the simplicity of the story, and the desires of the faire's owner.  The script went through several cuts, integrating and removing ideas, before the final was settled on.

Bottom line is I was HIRED to do the show, a Robin Hood show.  Whether Queen Elizabeth, or Queen Grace, or Queen Paris Hilton was the character chosen as the reigning monarch for that year, management hired me, and my team, to perform a Robin Hood show.  It wasn't a conspiracy.  Knights of Iron is a business, and is in the business of entertaining people, just like any other stage act.  We're just doing a job here folks...

I think people need to remember that MiRF, for whatever emotional attachment it holds for whomever, is a business, and they hire (and fire) acts and performers as they see fit to best make their show appeal to the patrons.  KOI did 2001-2005, then MiRF changed direction 2006-2008 and went with a different plan.  That's business, plain and simple, and was made in an attempt to please patrons, reduce costs, or some other business variable. 

Please also note also that "Rennies" make up less than 5% of your patrons at a show, but make up 95% of the posts on boards such as this, so what might be a big deal here, probably isn't to 95% of those who attend MiRF and other such shows.

How many times a day does Caroline, the performers making up the court, or the rest of the cast get asked "Where is the King?".  We hear it constantly.  Even if you tell people that QEI sits on the throne, most don't know that she never married.  At one time it was even suggested by a 'person of authority that will not be named' that a King be created for QE as her husband.  This idea, as you might expect, caused a minor rebellion until it was abandoned.  Most people don't know history, and their enjoyment isn't effected by inconsistencies.  It's like "Hey, we like Robin Hood, and we like Queen Elizabeth, so this is cool..."  Some exceptions of course, but for the most part, the audience doesn't care.  The KIDS sure as heck don't, although they may fail a history exam later on...

At Knights of Iron we have a saying "If it happened before you were born, it all probably happened about the same time..."  Lincoln was giving the Gettysburg address, Egyptians were building the pyramids, Henry VIII was on the throne with King Arthur and someone named "Edward", the Chinese were inventing fireworks, and Washington was crossing the Delaware, ALL on a Tuesday, in the year "blah-blah-blah".

Bottom line is that although in the Ren Fest world what happened with the MMRF court may have been seen as an affront to the MiRF reality, and I agree it showed poor judgment, the effect on the show was negligible at best. 

L. Dale Walter
Director
Knights of Iron

[L Dale Walter]

...or to request that you appear in spandex. 

Do you remember the last time I appeared in spandex?  Jump in the WayBack machine for that one...
LDW

[Katie Bookwench]

Do you remember the last time I appeared in spandex?  Jump in the WayBack machine for that one...
LDW

Worry not.....I could never forget that. It's somewhat unfortunate, though, that all I have is my memories, and no actual photographic proof. 

...so warn us if you decide to do it someday, so I can have my camera ready, k?

[Lord Virgil]

Do people take Ren Faires so seriously that if they see more than one king/queen/royal court/period represented, etc..., it ruins their entire day??? 

I can understand the complaints if anyone thought this was disrespectful to our queen or our faire, but if it's all about historical correctness.....

Does this mean that I have to get rid of my flintlock on my pirate costume since they weren't invented until after the Elisabethan period?

[pineridge]

Attack of the post that wouldn't go away!!!   AAAHHHHHHH

[Katie Bookwench]

Do people take Ren Faires so seriously that if they see more than one king/queen/royal court/period represented, etc..., it ruins their entire day??? 

Well, some people might... but I'm not one of those people. I came to grips with the historical anomalies a long time ago. In Hollygrove we play by special time/space contiuum rules.  

I can understand the complaints if anyone thought this was disrespectful to our queen or our faire, but if it's all about historical correctness.....

No, it was really more about being disrespectful of the Show, and the Queen.

Like I had explained it to someone else, it's like showing up at your best friend's wedding dressed in a long white gown and a tiara with a veil.

Yes, some of the guests might be confused, but more importantly, you can bet the parents of the happy couple won't be amused, and you can bank on the fact that the Bride's feelings will be hurt.

....especially if you look as good as Sealclubber looks in a dress!  

[flidais]

Ok I am not taking a position on this subject one way or the other and I am not going to point a finger at anyone.  I personally feel this is a subject that needs to be discussed and that everyone's opinion on it is valuable.  I am however going to suggest that perhaps this is not the correct place for those deeply hurt to hash it out.  I do not yet feel that this subject has gotten to the point of needing to lock this thread but would like to remind everyone of the guidelines set for this forum.  http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=452.0
As you can see, no personal attacks and no faire bashing are #1 and #2.  We are starting to find our way into some of those areas.  Please keep the spirit of this site and renaissance festivals in mind as you continue to post on this subject.  And like I said, if it at all possible, work this out somewhere else.
Thank you
Flidais

[Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman]

*blush* Aww, shucks.

[Margaret]

Do people take Ren Faires so seriously that if they see more than one king/queen/royal court/period represented, etc..., it ruins their entire day??? 

I can understand the complaints if anyone thought this was disrespectful to our queen or our faire, but if it's all about historical correctness.....

Does this mean that I have to get rid of my flintlock on my pirate costume since they weren't invented until after the Elisabethan period?

To say that my day would be 'ruined' by catching site of another king/queen/court is stretching it a bit because if our day at faire would be ruined by anachoristicst stuff - all those folks in jeans and t-shirts would have to go as well.  As well as those who show up in Scooby Doo outfits.   Especially those in Scooby Doo outfits carrying flintlock pistols.  Thems the WORST!!   

However, resident cast and the faire itself strive to create a somewhat believable environment once you step inside the gates.  They invite you on to their stage and ask that you believe that (in the case of MIRF) Queen Elizabeth is wandering around the village.  They move from their homes, put in hours and days of preparation and rehearsal as well as much of their own money so they can ask us as patrons to come on in and pretend with them for a while.

I'd say it is them that have the right to be the most vexed/offended/peeved when someone comes in and messes with the atmosphere they strive to create.

Entertainment Directors have 'messed' with the actual time line of reality in search of entertainment value at faires for a long time.  At MIRF we have had both Robin Hood and the Three Musketeers in the same story line - that was not too much to ask the audience to believe.  We are a Renaissance festival, not a living history exhibit.  We can do that.

However, there still need to be some 'guidelines'.  It is OK to have QE with the Musketeers, but to have a story where QE is reigning over the land while Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn smile on while standing on the dais as well - not so much.

I mean, if stories like that start occurring, what's to stop an ED from pitching a story line for a faire that contains QE, Robin Hood, the French and Spanish scheming together to take the throne of England by sneaking in a roving band of pygmy mummies in to do the dirty work.