Ren Fest and Body Image

[ArielCallista]

I have actually yet to find a corset or bodice that gives me cleavage...I had a ton of body image issues when I was younger ( I was about a foot taller than all my class mates until coming to college) ...but I feel like its really difficult for me to follow any of the garbing norm because they don't work for me...its hard to wear a bodice when you don't have much fat between your rib cage and skin...and a small chest as well..if i wear a bodice or corset tight enough to get anywhere close to having cleavage I literally am crushing my ribcage and will pass out in about half an hour. Cropped bodices are pretty much the only way to go for me...but it makes it alot harder to do any sort of standard wench look or pirate look...I end up looking too much like a gypsy or like I'm from the east...which I like, but not when I'm going for something else...

*sigh*

[Francisco Paula]

Ladies remember even though society says you should look one way....men are not society. Each and every one of you are loved by someone that will never ever ask you to change cause they believe you are perfect as is.

Yes the norms do go to faire and think its a boobfest but those that are regulars don't think that. A friend taught me one of the best things in the world is taken a ladies hand, look deeply into her eyes as you kiss said hand.

As for ladies dressing as pirates you have to remember in history a woman dressed like a man to be on a pirate ship.

Someday i do hope i get a chance to look deeply in each of your eyes why i kiss your hand.

[Zardoz]

I have a couple of thoughts on this, that I'm sure not everyone will be happy with, but here goes....

I don't really have much thought on the whole boobage issue. I like boobs as much as the next guy, but at faires the corset n' cleavege thing seems to to have gone over into caricature and parody, deliberately exaggerated to produce an effect. I know it's all that a lot of danes go on about, but the novelty has worn off for me to the point I don't really notice it anymore.

When I first saw this thread, my first thought was 'surely everybody at renfaire is pretty confident about their body image'!

The reason I thought that is because I see so many people, of both sexes, at faires that are proudly displaying body types that certainly do not fit into the "societal norms" being discussed. Honestly,  I sometimes think some of their garb choices a bit over the top, showing a little too much of a good thing. My wife and I call it the "just because it fits, doesn't mean you should wear it" syndrome.

Don't get the idea I'm just talking about heavier people, I think a chainmail barbarian outfit is as ill-considered on a scrawny 90 pound girl or guy as it might be on someone with a pot belly and cottage cheese everything else.

I guess my point is that while we don't always know how they might dress in the mundane world, I don't think these folks are too concerned about fitting into what society thinks they should look like. So I'd think that faires would teach kids to be more accepting of the variety of bodies out there.

[Anna Iram]

You know, I agree Charlotte. I love hearing all the different thoughts when a (potentially) controversial subject is tossed out. Makes me think about my own experiences and reactions and so forth.

I guess what I've learned, or certainly what I try to do in any situation where I might feel outside what is considered more desirable a) step up my game and figure a way to have that in which I see myself lacking,or b) accept that while I don't have some attribute I may have "this" or "that" that I can play up that will make me shine.  I think this the healthier option, but there certainly are ways to enhance ones cleavage if that is the direction anyone wants to go. Nothing wrong with that. Victoria's Secret has oodles of ways.

I certainly struggle with feeling imperfect and I am from the well endowed group. I think that's the trick for all of us ladies. To get beyond whatever it is we think is imperfect about ourselves and just let our own unique beauty shine through. Put a daisy next to a rose, next to a morning glory and tell me which is more beautiful. Some will say one perhaps, some the other, but in truth aren't they all equal? Why should we feel any differently about ourselves.

Charlotte, you're daughter is young and I see more and more advertising using average sized women. You can't shield her from all the advertisements using models who have been overly airbrushed and surgically enhanced, but you can be sure to introduce her to groups of women who do have healthy self esteem and healthy natural bodies. I certain think there are plenty of women at faire that would provide that for her. It'll just be up to you to be sure she has a well rounded faire education along with the rest.

[Ambrosine]

but there certainly are ways to enhance ones cleavage if that is the direction anyone wants to go. Nothing wrong with that. Victorias Secret has oodles of ways.

You just reminded me I have to buy a new pair of fakeys for my corset as the squelching heat at the end of BARF this year caused mine to crack 
I bought my fakeys awhile back when I, in my mind, was too skinny and was just fed up with the fact that even small shirts were still to big in the cleavage area so my husband suggested just doing the fakeys. I have to say they have been fun to wear and I  like that I can go from a "a" cup to a "b/c" in just a minute! I do not wear them often anymore since my sizing has gone to a medium after my son. They are nice at fair just because they are able to give me a little more push where there is lack there of with the corset.

[Blue66669]

I'm struggling at the moment too, but not only because of my own body image, but also because of my race. I've taken up belly dance, and decided to grab the garb that goes with it. I'm somewhat of a gypsy now, which is a realm that is usually dominated by thin white women with long hair that show their stomachs. That is most definitely NOT who I am. I'm a chunky half black girl with short hair and a post baby belly *uuuuugh*. I've been going through the issues of finding something that made me feel as beautiful as I believe my dancing to be (which is pretty damn good, IMHO). I finally have what I'm looking for, but still, find myself a tad too far off of what is usually considered to be "beautiful". It sucks, but we make it work.

[LadyFae]

Confidence is the most beautiful thing of all.  It doesn't matter what size we (or our "girls") are or what we wear to show off or hide our figures.  As long as you are confident in yourself you will be beautiful.  =D  That is what I try to teach my three little girls, even when I don't fully feel it myself!

[SirRichardBear]

My lovely wife is a 32A so doesn't get much benefit from a bodice However it does give her a nice waist line.  I try to enjoy all the ladies at Faire since they all have something special to offer.

[LadyStitch]

To be honest I prefer working with women who have more curves, and frankly I like working with "goddesses".  I can make them look dang good given a little time.  The more I work with people the more I find how appreciative  having someone who can make you look good no matter your size twiggy or healthy, washboard or shelved. 
I will say that ren faire culture is more open to what ever your body type maybe.  If you want to show something off more power to you. If you don't, that is your business. 

If you think you look good in your mind, then you look good.  Simple as that.

[Steev]

my 2 cents: I may be an aberration because I don't see the appeal of big boobs, per se.  Not turned OFF by them but not what attracts me to someone.  I always thought faire was great because women heavier than the "ideal", not "conventionally" beautiful, whatever- could dress up and show off without people casting the first stone.  Same goes for guys.  I may be naiive but seems to me like an attractive woman of any size or build is gonna attract attention.  I can't imagine thinking negatively of anyone for their body type (tho I might make a snide observation about how one chose to show it off if I thought it was remarkable, tasteless, or especially tasty...).

What I like about faire is that once you're dressed up in "make-believe" clothes, how can you criticize anyone else for dressing up?

[Anna Iram]

but there certainly are ways to enhance ones cleavage if that is the direction anyone wants to go. Nothing wrong with that. Victorias Secret has oodles of ways.

You just reminded me I have to buy a new pair of fakeys for my corset as the squelching heat at the end of BARF this year caused mine to crack 
I bought my fakeys awhile back when I, in my mind, was too skinny and was just fed up with the fact that even small shirts were still to big in the cleavage area so my husband suggested just doing the fakeys. I have to say they have been fun to wear and I  like that I can go from a "a" cup to a "b/c" in just a minute! I do not wear them often anymore since my sizing has gone to a medium after my son. They are nice at fair just because they are able to give me a little more push where there is lack there of with the corset.

Whatever brings a smile to your face at faire is a good thing.

[Auryn]

This topic is the exact reason I love coming to this forum and everyone in it.
This kind of conversation would be incredibly difficult to have in most mundane society. Too much pressure to be politically correct.

I belong to the not at all well endowed group of women and growing up I was a bit self conscious about it for a while until I became great friends with a girl who was very very well endowed and I started to learn all the issues that she had with her tracks of land (* hehe sorry I was watching holy grail over the weekend*). I can always get padded bras or fakeys like Lady Raven to fill out a dress or a shirt better, and when I get home I can put them away. My well endowed friends can't take theirs off and have to deal with the hassles of them on a daily basis.


In regards to men feeling the same pressures, I would beg to differ that they really do feel as much pressure as women, they are just not as publicly vocal about it as we are. Those guys working out like crazy in the gym aren't there because its their favorite thing in the world. All those guys that buy propecia and rogaine aren't doing it out of a need to contribute to the economy on a regular basis.

I got lucky and found a great man who is a butt guy and that I have plenty of.

Is faire a much more accepting and welcoming place- damn right it is.

Blue- never forget that to be a historically accurate belly dancer/gypsy, you need to be a curvy woman. Those dances were created and made famous by curvy women, not skinny minnys so you go out there and you dance- whoever doesnt like it just tell them to look elsewhere

[Elennare]

no matter your size twiggy or healthy,

Only quoting Lady Stich because she mentions something that seems to be overlooked in these sorts of discussions.

Not every woman who is incredibly thin is unhealthy.  I think, since there is such an emphasis on it in the media, and those women are made that way either by starving themselves or starving themselves and then being photoshopped thinner, that it is automatically assumed that every very skinny woman is unhealthy.  This is not the case.

My cousin is one of those women.  She wore a size 00 when she started high school, and blossemed up to a 0 by the end.  She didn't start wearing slightly bigger pants until she went to college and gained a bunch of muscle in her legs from all the weight lifting the track team had to do.  Even now, 8 months pregnant, she is still skinnier than I will ever be.  Her baby belly is about the same diameter as my hips currently are. 

My husband knew a girl in college who was also skinny like that, to the point that she was TRYING to gain weight.  Her genes didn't want to let her.  She had body issues, and was extremely frustrated by her in-ability to gain anything.

There is a big difference between being extremely skinny, because that is the body type you have been gifted with, and being a skeleton that's unhealthy (like we see in the media). 

*getting off my soap box now*

Sorry if that sounded ranty, I didn't mean to.  I do find it interesting, though, how this side of the discussion often gets left out.  It can be hard, no matter your body type, to be happy with what you have.  I guess just make sure that there's plenty of positive images/role models for the wee ones, and hope that they will be able to discern the difference between the real and the fake, and that they learn from example to be happy with the real they have.  Something I've learned, is that to truely be happy with your body, you need to be happy with who you are.  No matter what you make your body do, it won't fix your self-image.  That has to come first, or you can get as skinny or as fat as you think you need to to be "ideal" but you won't be happy.

For the record, I am NOT one of the skinny women.  And, so this stays more-or-less on-topic of body image at faire, I have not noticed the skinny women being told they need to get bigger [chests].  Seems to me, at faire, a pretty woman is a pretty woman, no matter her size, and is treated as such.  Maybe it's different in some places, but that is what I have seen.

[bellevivre]

this is a wonderful thread!

1) I rarely feel sexy in the real world. I generally feel sexy at faire- for me, it's half the reason I DO faire!
2) My hubby likes boobs (alot), yet HEAVAGE is never attractive. I try to walk a fine line.
3) Again, hubby likes boobs... but yet, he will readily admit some women dont NEED boobs to be gorgeous to him (he is utterly in love with Jenny from Circa Paleo, for example)

I think part of my sexy-feeling at Faire is because of the clothing I get to wear- bodices show off my small waist and enhance the flare of hip and bust. However, it's more than that- it's because I am actually PROUD of the way I look, which changes the perception from fat girl with boobs to renaissance goddess!

For your daughters, and all women of any size to learn- confidence is sexy! It doesnt matter what size, what cup size, whatever- it's the personality that shows in your demeanor, the way your head is held and the way your eyes sparkle, that attracts acclaim.

anyway, that's my two cents. ='D

[Zardoz]

In regards to men feeling the same pressures, I would beg to differ that they really do feel as much pressure as women, they are just not as publicly vocal about it as we are. Those guys working out like crazy in the gym aren't there because its their favorite thing in the world. All those guys that buy propecia and rogaine aren't doing it out of a need to contribute to the economy on a regular basis.

Yes, I was thinking about that this morning on the way from the donut shop to where I get my head shaved! 

I'm not sure that most men feel as much "external" pressure as women. (although I'm an old fat man, and may be out of touch)  The guys that workout a lot and get salon hairstyles, etc.. are thinking more about how they view themselves more than how they look to others.

I'm not saying that all guys that workout are vain and self-centered, working out to stay healthy is one thing,  working out to achieve a certain body size/ shape/ image can be pretty shallow.