Drawing Your Blade!!

[RSLeask]

Although I did see a patron bring in a 40 pound war hammer with the cutest little peace tie on it-

lol, reminds me of the gent I saw at VARF opening weekend, carrying a halberd with the bladed edges wrapped.  He was, however, carrying it free-handed.  I'm just scratching my head going, "Like that still wouldn't do lethal damage as is."  I'm also greatly amused when I see people walking around, their sword peace-tied to the frog, but no scabbard to the blade... mostly your rapiers and sabers, of course.  The aforementioned "tip to the shin" comment.

Personally, I don't have any argument about peace-ties, except it makes me have to remove my belt after faire is done (since I transport my weapon in the trunk... no sense having the potential twitchy trooper >.>) which is a bit of a pain.  But it's preferable to be carrying a blade, even tied.  Of course, being military, not like I'm going to draw on someone that isn't threatening me directly, but then I do know quite a few guys that probably would, so totally understandable when these faires have their insurance policy to worry about.

Besides, alcohol's bad enough with some people.  Sharp, pointy objects in the mix?  Definitely a bad combination.

[Baron Dacre]

At RPFS, the Sword of State is carried in parades unsheathed as are some of the swords carried in some of the other parades.  Some of the shows have staged sword fights and there is the fencing arena.

The sword is no longer carried unsheathed. Since it the sheath has a Tudor Rose as well as the ER on it, it looks more impressive as it precedes the Queen's chair. (How do I know this, I'm the fool responsible for scheduling the guy carrying it)

It is drawn on occasion during the Queen's show tho.

There are some groups (on cast) that are allowed to draw in the streets. However, these groups have practiced together, each member has studied for over a year and has passed their Scholar's test. Street fights are generally choreographed.

These groups also have demonstrations at the Maypole daily.

Master John Davies
aka
James "Jimmy" Mares
Men's Captain
Queen's Court, RPF

[tiberiusflynn]

I can't tell you how many times I've walked into faire forgetting to peace tie my sword...no one says a thing. I've never drawn it, and never will unless some drunken idiot decides to start hacking away at folk....

[Carl Heinz]

Hi, Jimmy-

Hadn't noticed since, if I'm out, I'm generally trying to get out of the way.  All you folks need is a choke point with Lightning in the middle of it.  I generally try to be in the yard during Queen's Prog so that I won't get in the way.

Btw, we're losing another Cuthie to The Gentleman Adventurers.

Glad to see yet another RPFSer here.

Carl

[Don Giovanni de' Medici]

Honestly, I have got to say that I really liked the enforcement and style of peaceties at my home faire.  At BARF you are welcome to bring in a blade, or at least you have recently, as long as it is peacetied.  However at times in the past carious individuals would remove their tie and pull steal.  Sometimes it is someone trying to show off there craftsmanship, however sometimes, though a patron may mean no harm, sometimes they are drunk or tipsy and it makes for a bad situation.  To fix this the show now uses bright orange zip ties and let the cast know to look out for weapons that do not have one and let the SM know.  We the cast are very rarely ever allowed to draw our weapons unless: in the fight field, a wedding for arches, knighting ceremonies, and other pre-approved special events.  I think it keeps everyone safer. besides just having them on you creates the look, not brandishing the steel all the time anyways.  Just my thoughts.

Ciao Tutti

[The Scottish Knight]

However I will also say that there is 1 situation that not only would I draw my blade but I would use it, and that would be if some drunk were coming at me with a drawn blade, at that point it is self defence and I would defend myself.  I am sure that faire management would say "call for security"  rrrriiiggghhhtttt!!!!!!   The guy is 10 feet from me and security is God only knows where, by the time they get there I could be dead or worse.     

Is it bad that I almost want this to happen?

[Don Giovanni de' Medici]

Jack Daw, if the Italians wore kilts and carried such large weapons as the Scots they'd be in the running for the ribbons too.  

Oh really! Signora, do not think that because we are fancy, it does not mean we are not packing.  Great measures must be taken to carry out his Holiness' vision...especially around your heretic King and Queen!

[tiberiusflynn]

However I will also say that there is 1 situation that not only would I draw my blade but I would use it, and that would be if some drunk were coming at me with a drawn blade, at that point it is self defence and I would defend myself.  I am sure that faire management would say "call for security"  rrrriiiggghhhtttt!!!!!!   The guy is 10 feet from me and security is God only knows where, by the time they get there I could be dead or worse.     

Is it bad that I almost want this to happen?

And as much as this is frowned upon...thats why my peace tie is something that can come off quickly. I've never pulled my sword in any manner at faire, while sober or drunk. But if some drunkard (or just run of the mill idiot) starts singing away...my blade is coming out, for the good of myself and anyone else unlucky enough to be in their way that can't pull their sword...

[The Scottish Knight]

However I will also say that there is 1 situation that not only would I draw my blade but I would use it, and that would be if some drunk were coming at me with a drawn blade, at that point it is self defence and I would defend myself.  I am sure that faire management would say "call for security"  rrrriiiggghhhtttt!!!!!!   The guy is 10 feet from me and security is God only knows where, by the time they get there I could be dead or worse.     

Is it bad that I almost want this to happen?

And as much as this is frowned upon...thats why my peace tie is something that can come off quickly. I've never pulled my sword in any manner at faire, while sober or drunk. But if some drunkard (or just run of the mill idiot) starts singing away...my blade is coming out, for the good of myself and anyone else unlucky enough to be in their way that can't pull their sword...

Indeed. I don't pretend to be an expert swordsman, but I do have enough expeirience to defend myself and others.

Hopefully, nothing like that will ever happen, but if it does, I hope there are people there to do something about it.


Mind telling me how you tie your sword to come out quickly? (you can send me a PM if you like)

[Don Giovanni de' Medici]

Well guys, while I understand where you are coming from and certainly think that people have a right to defend themselves, I gotta say I am not sure I agree in this instance.  I know that security and SM, while they are on site, may not be right there when it happens, but I still think that letting the proper authorities handle the situation with that guest.  I am not saying that anyone is wrong for holding there positions in conversations with another person, but when a weapon becomes involved the situation changes it is not at all cowardly to remove yourself from the situation and would indeed be more noble to help those around you get away from some idiot who decides to pull a weapon for whatever reason at a production in an aggressive manner.  I am sure that there will be responses to this stating that no matter what if someone pulls steel they will retaliate.  But the reality is that if someone is getting heated and you think a situation like that may occur it is better to laugh off the idiocy and just remove oneself from the negative party before it gets too far.  There is much to be remembered from the phrase "Discretion is the better part of valor."  Also I think it is is the responsibility of patrons to keep there friends in check.  If you know someone, while maybe harmless in intentions, is prone to drunkenness or getting temperamental and would consider pulling steel, it would be better if you didn"t let them come with a weapon, peace-tied or not.  While your intentions to help others and defend yourself may be in the best intentions themselves, unfortunately there is a great risk that someone, cast or patron, may be collaterally injured in the process.  It is my opinion that in a case where someone pulls steel and the other person pulls in response, rather than just leaving the person and using discretion and common sense around a person who may be off their rocker, that both individuals should be removed and trespassed from the production site.  It may seem very high school, but the safety of everyone is the highest priority. and there are people to enforce and handle those situations.  Bottom line: if you think it may happen and you are in a confrontation with someone who may, just leave the area and let the right people know.

[escherblacksmith]

Right, just as a warning to keep things back on track.  What people are talking about is darn close to advocating carrying weapons that can be drawn easily, in case they have to duel with someone.

That isn't going to continue in this thread.  Please stay on topic with the wherefores of rules for such things (in the varioius faires), and not how to circumvent them.

thanks!

[L Dale Walter]

Indeed. I don't pretend to be an expert swordsman, but I do have enough expeirience to defend myself and others.

Hopefully, nothing like that will ever happen, but if it does, I hope there are people there to do something about it.

I am probably as close to an "expert swordsman" as they come.  I won't bore people here with credentials (PM me if you really want them).  I will point out that at every faire I have ever done there ARE people there to do something about such a problem.  They are called SECURITY and POLICE.  PLEASE let them do ther jobs.  Taser's and pepper spray are far better than sword wounds.  I will defer to badges every time.

L. Dale Walter
Director
Knights of Iron

[tiberiusflynn]

Well guys, while I understand where you are coming from and certainly think that people have a right to defend themselves, I gotta say I am not sure I agree in this instance.  I know that security and SM, while they are on site, may not be right there when it happens, but I still think that letting the proper authorities handle the situation with that guest.  I am not saying that anyone is wrong for holding there positions in conversations with another person, but when a weapon becomes involved the situation changes it is not at all cowardly to remove yourself from the situation and would indeed be more noble to help those around you get away from some idiot who decides to pull a weapon for whatever reason at a production in an aggressive manner.  I am sure that there will be responses to this stating that no matter what if someone pulls steel they will retaliate.  But the reality is that if someone is getting heated and you think a situation like that may occur it is better to laugh off the idiocy and just remove oneself from the negative party before it gets too far.  There is much to be remembered from the phrase "Discretion is the better part of valor."  Also I think it is is the responsibility of patrons to keep there friends in check.  If you know someone, while maybe harmless in intentions, is prone to drunkenness or getting temperamental and would consider pulling steel, it would be better if you didn"t let them come with a weapon, peace-tied or not.  While your intentions to help others and defend yourself may be in the best intentions themselves, unfortunately there is a great risk that someone, cast or patron, may be collaterally injured in the process.  It is my opinion that in a case where someone pulls steel and the other person pulls in response, rather than just leaving the person and using discretion and common sense around a person who may be off their rocker, that both individuals should be removed and trespassed from the production site.  It may seem very high school, but the safety of everyone is the highest priority. and there are people to enforce and handle those situations.  Bottom line: if you think it may happen and you are in a confrontation with someone who may, just leave the area and let the right people know.

I completely agree with what you are saying. And if it could be done, I'd say that everyone with a weapon at the door, needs to have a official Faire bright orange zip tie placed on their weapon and if its taken off the weapon gets confiscated till the end of faire where you can pick it up at the security area. Nor am I advocating dueling, etc. I am merely speaking of self defense when there are no other options.

I do not hang with anyone that would ever pull their swords in anger, etc. But then again most of my friends are not idiots....

There are many idiots at Faire that would love and think its cool to pull their swords and hack away at someone that they don't like or has slighted them in some way...and then when you add alcohol to that....??

All I'm saying is at certain very large faires, security is not always near at all. And if an incident ever happened I would not want others or myself to get hurt while waiting or running for the nearest cop which might be a mile away.

My old Kempo teacher always told me, "I'd rather be judged by twelve then carried by six."

[L Dale Walter]

There are many idiots at Faire that would love and think its cool to pull their swords and hack away at someone that they don't like or has slighted them in some way...and then when you add alcohol to that....??

All I'm saying is at certain very large faires, security is not always near at all. And if an incident ever happened I would not want others or myself to get hurt while waiting or running for the nearest cop which might be a mile away.

I have been doing shows since 1981.  That's 28 years folks.  I have NEVER seen anything like this happen.  Back in the day (1983-84) I got drawn on a couple of times (dark ages and all that) but I have never seen, nor even heard of anyone patron attacking another patron at a show.

Lets not get all bent about something that just doesn't happen.  Before someone says "It could..." sure, anything -could- happen.

L. Dale Walter