Need coaching on tall hat please...

[amy]

OK.... so I dig out my copy of Tudor Tailor and I start looking at all the pictures and patterns for the hats.   Just finished my daughters but wanted something very different for myself.  I have always wanted a tall hat and thought that what I see at most hat shops at faire are not always as I see described in the books.   I copy out the pattern.  Cut it in poster board and figure I will put together a mock up to see if I am on the right track.... and I seem to have a pilgrim hat!

Do you want to put in your two cents?  Is it too tall?  Is the brim too wide?   Will it really look that different when I get the pleated velvet finish fabric on it?    Has anyone ever had these second thoughts when they saw themselves in one of these wierd looking toppers??

Please chime in!  Thank you!

[Pipere]

I think once you get the pleated finish on it it will remove that capotan look. I've worked on a lot of hats that I've worried about looking like that or even cowboy hats!

Besides, the capotan (Pilgrim hat) has a much larger brim, so don't worry.

[gem]

Where's Master James? Have you seen his profile pic?  (He posted in this Tall Hat thread.)  His looks fabulous, and judging from your rough draft, I would say you're on the right track.

[amy]

Thanks for the guidance... I moved ahead and did a draft covering on the mock up to check that I even liked what the result would be when I popped it on my head.   It covered very easily and I learned the value of a curved needle while whipping the pieces together.  But I discovered the following:   Be sure to use a very stiff brim frame.  Don't skip either wiring the outside edge or using a pasted bucram (sp?) frame.   My draft was only poster board and I don't like the soft look on me.  Also some faces are NOT good with this type perky small hat perched atop!  I will go with a smidge larger than head measurement for fitting.  Also going to make the second slightly more cone shaped.  The pattern from Tudor Tailor came out a bit stove pipe for my fancy.  I so love Sir James' hat in his avatar and am looking for more of that slim look.

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Lookinhg good, amy!

For other hats you may want to make in the future, the hat patterns by Lynn McMasters are highly recommended. Her instructions are easy to follow and she lists the materials that you would need.

For hats I make, I use a very sturdy Buckram and wire I order from Judith M Millinery. The mnore hats you make, the easier it gets.

[gem]

Love that russet velvet!!

Also some faces are NOT good with this type perky small hat perched atop!  I will go with a smidge larger than head measurement for fitting. 

My experience with the hat I made from Tudor Tailor (the Henrician coif, which is a soft hat) was that the pattern ran a little small--I have a pretty smallish head and not much hair, and find it snug on me.

Once you're finished, be sure to add your review of the pattern to the Tudor Tailor tips thread! http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=9624.0

[amy]

Here is the 2nd draft of the rust velvet tall hat (without the final band, just a pice of scrap ribbon I had).  Came out so much better the second time.  I did wire the edge of the brim as Lady Kathleen suggested so once I have it on I'll be able to shape it just a smidge so as not to have that dunce hat look.  This one is 3/4 inches larger in size, still 6" tall but slightly more cone shaped.  The pleating was pretty easy and accomplished with just 3 rows of stitches.  Thanks for your coaching!  One more to make in silk for my sister.  I think that fabric will be much less forgiving.

[Genievea Brookstone]

Amy that came looks amazing!

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Well done amy!!!



Here is a Arched Tall Hat using a pattern by Lynn McMasters, ultra heavy buckram, millinery wire, underlined in flannel, then covered in Velveteen. I have taken to using the fashion fabric as a bias to finish the Brim edge.


The same when I do Italian Bonnets and Flat Caps.

[amy]

So those lovely brim edges are  bound with matching fabric instead of using a sort of butt joint and a blind whip stitch to finish!  That would work so much better for the next project! Thanks for the tip!  The pictures really help and the hats are gorgeous!

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Glad to be of help, amy!

When using Millinery wire for brim, crown, and crown tops, be sure to cover the wire with single fold wide bias tape. That can be applied by hand or with the sewing machine. That provides a smoother surface then for the bias made of the fashion fabric.

I make 2 1/2" strips. 5/8" seam allowance on the UP side of the brim, then rolled over to measure 5/8"  on the UNDER side, invisible slip stitched with a curved needle. Walla!!!

[gem]

I make 2 1/2" strips. 5/8" seam allowance on the UP side of the brim, then rolled over to measure 5/8"  on the UNDER side, invisible slip stitched with a curved needle. Walla!!!

Voila, indeed! That's a great technique, and it looks fantastic.

[flidais]

Very nice!!!  Hats are so much fun to make.

[Cofeeguru]

Okay, I'm resurrectng this thread, since I've started working on my Elizabethan arched tall hat from Lynn McMasters pattern, and I've got an odd question:  do any of you fine hatmakers have a tip for stabilizing the millinery wire (18 gauge rayon covered) so that it doesn't constantly roll (as I'm currently experiencing on the crown) or slap me in the face?  Or am I doing something very wrong here?

Thanks tons and bunches in advance!!

[Delireus]

This is so exciting, your hat looks great! We've just started cutting out our buckram in my millinery class I'm in in college and while it looks very hard, I'm excited about it. Just reading all of the tips you guys suggested here will be a big help, I'm sure.

[amy]

I am sorry I can't speak on the exact technique used by miliners but if I understand your question correctly I'll tell you what I did personally to wire edge the brim and crown of my hat.   I cut my wire to length and roughly formed it to my curve and then just ran it under a wide zig zag stitch in the machine.  By feeding it down the center of the foot the needle never touches it and it is perfectly encased and stays right where you want it.  If that doesn't solve your problem (and it is super fast for us short cut cheaters)  then refer back to Lady Kathleen's tip for covering the wire in bias tape and then stitching down.

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Covering the Millinery with Bias tape is reccommended for hat making. I cover all the areas where there is wire sen in.

Also using the widest zig zag stitch with the needle positioned in the center as to not hit the wire, dos take time off. But made up when there is the handsewing to be done. I am working on an Arched Tall hat and French Hood for a Clothing vendor friend of mine in Michigan.

[Cofeeguru]

Thanks for all of the responses!! It actually seems to really only occur when wiring the tip, and I'm assuming it's because of the tight circle I have to make with the wire.  Everything else went relatively smoothly with wiring; even the crown stopped rolling on me as I went.

Good golly, there's a lot of hand sewing with a hat, I'm definitely going to try the machine for the wiring next time! But, I just need to cover the brim edge, attach the crown and brim, and accessorize, and I'm done with my first hat.  It's not perfect, but I know what I need to change for next time!

Lady Kathleen, do you also cover the crown's wire with bias tape? The instructions didn't call for it, but I'm thinking it'd be easier next time to glue the mull to the buckram if I have tape there instead of the raw wire edge.

Also: wallpaper paste is my friend! Goes on smoothly, doesn't soak into the buckram, and attaches beautifully!

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

coffeeguru!

On this and every hat I make, i use Millinery wire for the Brim, bottom and top of the tall part of the crown and on the top round par of the crown as well. I also make a bias of 2 1/2" wide of the fashion fabric to finish the efge of the brim. Looks better that way.

The Buckram I use is Theatrical weight Buckram from http://www.judithm.com/  as well as the wire. The Buckram is much better quality and heavier, which means a higher price. But then, you only need one layer of buckram rather than 2 or 3 of another.

Hope this helps others who like to make hats.

[Cofeeguru]

That looks fabulous, Lady Kathleen! Thanks for the tips!   Hopefully I'll have pictures of my own first attempt up tonight or tomorrow.

[Cofeeguru]

Okay, I'm almost done with my first tall hat, I just need to put the lining in and trim the brim edge.  However, before I line, I'm debating lining the seam where the crown and tip meet.  I'd love opinions as to whether you like it, it's too much, it could add weight that might be a problem, etc.  TIA, everyone!

This is as it is now, with just the crown base trim:



And this is with the optional trim tacked on:


Please ignore the messy house. 

All in all I'm rather pleased with my first attempt. . .I see some things I will definitely do differently next time, like clipping the velvet down more tightly while attaching it to the mull and buckram, and decreasing the seam allowance on the brim by about 1/4 inch, as I think the crown overlapped the brim too much and I was cutting out seam allowance like mad just to get it to fit my head.  I also feel it's a little pinched in more than I'd like it to be.

[amy]

Very nice!  Great job for a first attempt!  I'd say you have it down pat already!    Tough decision on the trim.   But since the trim is so brightly contrasting I like it only at the brim joint.   Leave it off the top edge.

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Well done!

AS you get the hang of making hats, you find that they do get easier the more tricks that you learn.

I learned that using the zig zag stitch works better than hand sewing the millinery wire along all the edges. Why did it take me so long to do that?? DOH!

[amy]

Yeah!    I love this place for picking up tips and tricks.  I used Lady Kathleen's tip for binding the edge of the brim instead of butt joining it with a whip stitch and my new hat looks great!  I used a contrasting binding and wore the hat before it was even fully finished.  It looked good with just the edging and doesn't have any decoration on the brim yet!  Oh and to cut another corner,  it doesn't have any wire in the brim either!  After I put on the binding I ran in a length of light weight boning to keep the edge stiff.   Boy talk about time saver.   Would only work on this style hat though.  You can adjust the curve with how hard you press the boning in and how tight it is.
Thank you!  

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Your Italiasn Bonnet came out lovely, Amy!

That is an interesting trick you did with the wire. And you are correct that it would work for an Italian Bonnet over other brimmed hats.

[bookwench]

Looks great, especially for a first attempt!  I like the trim along the bottom edge, accents the curve of the hat nicely...

....Okay, I'm almost done with my first tall hat, I just need to put the lining in and trim the brim edge.  However, before I line, I'm debating lining the seam where the crown and tip meet.  I'd love opinions as to whether you like it, it's too much, it could add weight that might be a problem, etc...

[Cofeeguru]

Thanks for all of the help and input, ladies!  I'm going to finish this one up, and then promptly make a second one, as I'm just not loving the fit. I'm going to do what Lynn suggests and make a copy at 104% on my work printer to increase the size slightly.  I might drop the weight of the mull, too, so it doesn't eat up as much of the perimeter.

And Amy, that hat is awesome!