Padded Pleats

[Lady Rebecca]

I'm working with a pretty light weight fabric for my 17th c gown. The skirt will be knife pleated (with the back connected directly to the bodice, and the front on some tape, to tie around my waist). I know I'm doing knife pleats, but do knife pleats require more padding, like cartridge pleats do? I always face my cartridge pleats with about 5" of canvas. Or is this a skirt that just needs to be lined (I will be wearing a petticoat and bum roll with it, too.) And if that is the case, are there any rules to follow to help know when to line a skirt?

[gem]

I think for the knife pleats to lie smoothly, you'll want to line the skirt rather than padding the pleats. I think if you padded them, you'd get an unattractive line where the padding/facing stops--and you don't want knife pleats to stand out the same way that you want cartridge or rolled pleats to do. Check out this photo that Lady K posted in the other thread:



Alas, I have no advice about lining skirts, as I'm petrified to try it! (Although I'll be watching this thread carefully, since Promenade will be lined.)

[Lady Rebecca]

Hmm... I totally understand what you're saying, but I'd really like to get away with not lining the skirt! That's so much more fabric I'd have to buy.

And this is more the type of tiny knife pleats I'm going for, though they won't be that tiny. I don't think I would be able to manage less than 1/2".

[gem]

Well, those don't look like they're lined *or* padded. They look like a very fine, lightweight silk, and just a bunch of really teeny tiny pleats. Add padding or a lining to that, and you just wouldn't be able to make them that small! Have you tried doing that with cartridge pleating, which is really only controlled gathers? I know you always face/pad your CPs, but if you make them tiny (1/4" maybe), with one gathering line, out of a single layer of very lightweight fabric, they do have a softness just like that. I'm wondering if those were made with the assistance of something like a pintuck foot or a pleating/smocking board.

(Although if you're using a very lightweight fabric like that, you'd probably want to line it anyway, but *under* the pleated layer.)

[operafantomet]

I didn't line the skirt for the "Unicorn" dress, and there's pros and cons. On the negative side, the silk I used is a tad static, and clings to the underskirt I wear. I think lining would help re: that issue. It's also a bit too light, I think, but more in the hem than at the waist.

On the positive side, the pleats were very easy to get even. If you line them before pleating, you might have to stitch or pin down the lining (temporary) to avoid it gradually moving, making the lining around the hem tug in the wrong way. Does that make sense? English terminology on sewing is not my forte....

I choose to let all pleats run in one direction for the Unicorn one, as this is what's seen in the portrait I copied (Raphael's Lady with Unicorn). In another Raphael dress I made, the skirt wasn't lined either, but I used velvet and it was definitely thick enough on its own... In that dress the pleats run in opposite directions, meeting in a big triple pleat in the back:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/raphaelgown/raphaelback1.jpg

Historically they would line the skirt. Partly to avoid wear and tear on the fancy fabric, as fabrics was reused as much as possible, and partly to allow draping up the skirt if necessary. The lining was used as a contrast to the outer fabric - black dresses would often have gold lining, for example. But I'm with you, lining skirts is a lot of work (getting the two layers to correspond... how to solve the seams and raw edges...), and needs a lot of fabric. So I only do it 50% of the time, depending on the project. I would have lined the Unicorn one if I had the fabric, though. But I had one week to make it, and no money to buy lining.