Faire: Should it be Fantasy or Historically Accurate or a Mix?

[Tanyor]

I just want to point out that were renaissance paintings of all kinds of fantasy beings.

I'm all up for having fun. they only thing I dislike is the rude and prude.

As a matter of fact I'm ditching the pirate for a satyr.

A H/A faire I'm sorry but watching a large show without speakers doesn't sound fun.

And turkey's were only for the extremely wealthy I believe. I'd cry if there wasn't a turkey leg booth. Also If you were not among the wealthy. A chicken leg wouldn't cut it.

http://www.fineartscreensavers.com/ren/full/Lady_with_a_Unicorn_(Raphael).jpg

It could be a doll it could be real. Does it really matter? and it is known that goats with a operation can grow unicorns or unihorns.

[Black Armor]

Take it easy people, I was making a point and having a little fun.  Doesn't take much to get you guys fired up does it?  Anyway, you're saying it's fine for people to wear sci-fi costumes and justify it by creating back- stories for them (they're time travelers or a Star Trek away team or whatever).  With that in mind, you consider it acceptable for them to approach paid renaissance characters (such as the Queen) and costumed patrons and force them to interact with their sci-fi character.  Fine, they just need to keep in mind that there are some people like me who might not appreciate it or think that it's funny and I would hope that they would at least respect that.  You can't expect everyone to just accept it especially when they are confronted with it.  Now I am in no way saying that I am going to chase down the first sci-fi costumed person I see and beat them up.  I would do as I have always done in the past and walk by without saying a word.  Even if some trekkie were to try and scan me with his tricorder (and no Dirt Farmer, I don't know how to spell it and spell check doesn't know either) I wouldn't do anything to him.  However, I would tell him in a very stern voice to get away from me and wouldn't play along.  Now, if he continued to harass me after I told him to leave me alone, I might actually do something but I'm sure that nobody would be that rude.  The bottom line is that I realize that the sci-fi people are going to be there.  Like I said, I don't really like it but I will respect their right to be there as long as they respect my right to be left alone by them.  I believe the original question was, "Should faires be fantasy, historically accurate or a mix?"  As I've already said, I support the "mix" of HA and fantasy but I think it just makes sense that the fantasy aspect at a medieval renaissance faire would be in keeping with a "medieval fantasy" realm and not a "sci-fi fantasy".

As far as my costume Dirt Farmer, I made no attempt at any "period".  My costume is "medieval fantasy" like I stated in a previous post. I made everything I am wearing in my picture except for the helm and chain.  I wouldn't be opposed at all to wearing a period correct costume if I could find one I liked but I wouldn't be caught dead in a velvet vest and poofy shorts.  I never claimed that my costume was better than anyone's sci-fi costume, just that I thought mine fit in better at a medieval renaissance faire.  Someone might walk in with a Klingon costume that is right out of the the Star Trek shows or movies but I don't think it fits in.  If it was that great I would probably get a picture of it myself because I am also a sci-fi fan but I just don't think they mix.  You're right that, "not period is not period", but I'm talking about medieval/medieval fantasy and storm troopers and the like are not even in that neighborhood.  I understand your point and I'm sure you understand mine.         

[Angus]

Black Armor,

Are you always so aloof at the faires?  Do you not attend faires to meet other "like-minded" individuals, and enjoy the day's interaction/attractions or just to show off the work on your hand-made Armor?

I've seen you several times at festivals, you never seem to be enjoying yourself, (it could be because of the heat) you seem stand-off-ish to me (but that is just my interpretation of your mood) so I would not be surprised at your rude behavior towards someone dressed differently from you.

What does surprise me is your admission of such rude behavior towards other people, who have paid their entry fee, and have real expectations to interact with Costumed actors paid to entertain the patrons, yet they end up approaching someone like me and you instead. 

I cannot count the times I have been approached by patrons (mundanes) asking the time for a show, or where the "Privies" are, or some other question, believing that I worked for the Fest.  It seems that one would assist the person in a polite fashion, and let it go, the benefits are not yours, but they encourage the patrons to attend the festival again, and it makes the "Local" RenFest look good even though you do not work for the Fest...

...should someone approach you, dressed as someone other than a "renaissance" character, and ask you for directions or whatever, your response would be for them to leave you alone, even if they were attempting some harmless social interaction with you?

The people that attend these faires, not in a period costume, but in a different costume, expect the actors to interact with them, they do not know the difference between one who works there, and someone like me, who just dresses in a costume and attends the fest for the sheer enjoyment. 
Your rude demeanor towards Capt Kirk, and his Klingon mistress, discredits the faire you attend and other like us who dress and enjoy.

I understand your intolerance towards a "differently dressed" individual, and if you wish to be left alone by these individuals, that is your right, however consider the image you leave behind to the person you have just been rude to and realize that you are not helping your "local" RenFest, but you are hurting its image for future patrons.

I am aware that this posting will not change your mind about patrons dressed as a Klingon, or Battlestar Galactica, or Anime Character, I just want you to think about the image you leave behind in the minds of these people, after you behave in a rude manner.

[Black Armor]

Angus, I have NEVER been rude to anyone!  You are right though and I have been asked for directions by people in the past and have always tried to help the best I could.  I have never meant to be "stand offish" and have always enjoyed people who have approached me.  I have even held someone's baby for a picture.  I love the fest and love that people want to have their picture taken with me.  I will continue as I always have but hopefully will project a more friendly and approachable impression.  I really do love for people to approach me and it is an honor for someone to ask me directions or to have their picture with me.  Wait, you've seen me?  But I see you are from KY.  If you come to the Mi ren fest you better introduce yourself so that I can buy you a pint!  But maybe you've confused me with someone else. 

[nliedel]

Sometimes in life, you just have to look the other way, and odd costumes instead of garb is one of them. I don't think MIRF allows leashed personages, at least not anymore.

Anyway, if I get pissy about someone in "odd garb" I would be a big ole hypocrite, since you should see the fairy covered horror I wore to Bristol the first year. Someone actually came up to me, from cast mind you, and told me to dress properly, this was not Halloween. I learned a lesson. I treat everyone the same, I don't care if their wearing Saran Wrap and a banana leaf. It's not worth my day to fuss and be bothered and I'm cast, so if Darth Vader wants to play, I play. If Darth is drunk I make my out and move on.

I did innocently ask my director what the day of wrong was and he said, "it does not exist for you." LOL!

[Angus]

"However, I would tell him in a very stern voice to get away from me and wouldn't play along.  Now, if he continued to harass me after I told him to leave me alone, I might actually do something but..."

For a "mundane" attempting an interaction with you, this would be rude...

I am aware that most of what is said here is "rum fueled" bluster, but I don't truly believe all of the bluster being touted here.
I really mean to state that any rude behavior from any costumed patron has quite a negative impact not only on the person, but the entire RenFest that you are visiting.

Generally said, there will always be Capt. Kirk strolling with his Klingon mistress, or Stormtroopers galavanting around, some Renfest somewhere, at sometime, (personally, I really disliked the Civil War Vet, cause he was drunk as Cooter Brown, and being belligerent...) but they are here to stay...
...regardless of any comments from any one of us.

I apologise for calling your comments rude.

[Tipsy Gypsy]

To toss a thought out there... just where, exactly, would we draw the line between period vs. fantasy, (or maybe just Eager Joe wanting to play along but not quiiite getting the difference between garb and Halloween costumes), and just plain ol' ugly "garb Nazism"?

Perhaps gentle tolerance toward off-period dress, Sci-Fi/fantasy/B&D/Goth/Wal-Mart halloween clearance/whateverthehell, and just letting folks come in, have a good time, and see for themselves the native renfolk in full plumage might inspire them to want to be a part of what's going on, and choose something closer to the theme of the event in the future? How many people have you seen (including yourself, perhaps) who've come in the gate the first time in 'danes, or in some attempt at garb, who then see all the costumes around them... and BING! the lightbulb comes on? Ta-daa, a rennie is born!

[maelstrom0370]

How many people have you seen (including yourself, perhaps) who've come in the gate the first time in 'danes, or in some attempt at garb, who then see all the costumes around them... and BING! the lightbulb comes on? Ta-daa, a rennie is born!

That's pretty much how my girlfriend and I "got the bug".  We started going regularly and got tired of "sticking out" in our 'danes.  She pretty much got it right the first time and has only added a trinket or bauble here and there to her original garb.  I, on the other hand, have changed every-damn-thing except my kilt.  At first I didn't know, now I'm leaning towards pirate...by next year...who knows!!??
Now, I'm willing to believe a small percentage of those who come in "non-faire" garb are doing so for the sheer joy of being annoying (we ARE human beings, after all) but I'd be willing to bet the rest come that way because it's what they're comfortable in and it's their attempt at participating. 
I've yet to see anyone in really out of place garb at MiRF (I'm sure they exist, but I only go maybe 2 weekends a season), but I'd like to think it wouldn't bother me overly much, if at all.

[Black Armor]

I apologise for calling your comments rude.

I apologise for my rum fueled bluster.

[Cobaltblu]

My original question was "Should it be Fantasy or Historically Accurate or a Mix"

It looks like the answer from everyone is it should be some sort of mix.  I agree with that.

But then the question is: What exactly is "Fantasy" and what is meant by "should"?

I think most people agree that it "should" be vaguely medieval or renaissance fantasy and not scifi, however that we should have tolerance for people who dress as scifi fantasy.

I tend to have zero tolerance for scifi fantasy and if I am feeling self-righteous I might be heard saying I would not even acknowledge their existence if they walked up to me.  However I suppose we need to have tolerance for scifi characters because who knows maybe they will feel out of place and rather dress in more appropriate garb and not stick out like a sore thumb and look silly.

That being said it is a fact that any significant number of scifi characters WILL harm a faire by degrading its atmosphere.  While a few star trek or stormtroopers may be "quaint", a whole legion of them becomes an eyesore and is annoying.

So I suppose the answer to my question is that a fantasy mix is best and even some scifi fantasy should be "tolerated" however if the scifi fantasy gets too much perhaps some encouragement (by patrons or management) is needed to preserve the atmosphere of the faire.  Also the fact that it is a "renaissance" faire usually prevents or persuades any larger invasions or landing parties of scifi fantasy from entering the faire...so hopefully "encouragement" is not needed to preserve the integrity and atmosphere of a faire.

Regards,

CB

[daylight]

Black Armor : I FORGIVE YOU,  now go have fun and enjoy the fair, It is a most wounderful place for family and friends to meet and play, and be together . No matter what we wear we are still friends at the end of the day, and have had a great time at the fair

[BLAKDUKE]

"However, I would tell him in a very stern voice to get away from me and wouldn't play along.  Now, if he continued to harass me after I told him to leave me alone, I might actually do something but..."

For a "mundane" attempting an interaction with you, this would be rude...

Angus:
I am coming into this discussion a bit late, it seems about 10 pages late, however I think you mistook Black Armors meaning(of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong), but I do not think he was referring to mundanes, I think he was refering to the sci-fi trekies, as far as interaction.  Truth to tell I have never seen a trekie, klingon, B.G. type at any faire I have ever been to.  However if I did,  about the only interaction that they should be afforded as far as what the public sees would be to scream in terror for that is what a person from the 14th thru the 17th century would do when acosted by some someone so obviously foreign.  Even if the queen were to be approached by someone so dressed QE I would scream for her guards and the trekies etc. should re-act accordingly.  As far as the Historically accurate vs fantasy question.  Look at the mindset of the times,  they believed in witches, demons, fairies, elves, trolls and the like so having these characters on site is not only acceptable fantasy, but historically accurate based on the beliefs of the times.  To have a renn faire without these elements to me is NOT historically accurate  Granted I have seen faires that do not adhere to the historical aspect of their time frame.  for example the St Louis faire states in their website that the year is 1530 and yet King Henry II  sits upon the throne fully 16 years before he historically would get there.  To me that is more grievious  than having a few elves,  fairies and trolls hanging around.    I feel there has to be a mix of both IMHO.  However where H/A is referenced it should be correct.  If you are doing any Henry up to and including the 8th then anything Shakespere should not be allowed.  And musketeers before the advent of said order in France in the 17th century should be looked at with a stern eye, if you are going to be H/A.   At all of the faires that I have performed as King, only once have I ever done a true historical figure and I should have said no to it, but the contract was signed and it was to late.  I much prefer to do my own character because I can get away with a lot more and do not have to be a character nazi on  myself.     Just my humble 2 or 3 ducats worth.

[Black Armor]

"However, I would tell him in a very stern voice to get away from me and wouldn't play along.  Now, if he continued to harass me after I told him to leave me alone, I might actually do something but..."

For a "mundane" attempting an interaction with you, this would be rude...

Angus:
I am coming into this discussion a bit late, it seems about 10 pages late, however I think you mistook Black Armors meaning(of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong), but I do not think he was referring to mundanes, I think he was refering to the sci-fi trekies, as far as interaction.  

That is correct.  I meant the trekkies.

[Dayna]

I assume you mean Henry II of France (1519 - 1559) who assumed the throne in 1547.  Otherwise if you are speaking of Henry II of Englane, it's a bit more than 16 years off, it's more like 397.  Henry II was born in 1133, came to the throne in 1154 and died in 1189.

Dayna

[VIII]

As one who has been to Faire as a "trekkie" I have never foisted myself on anyone.  It would be anathema for for me to interject my own good time over someone elses.  Ded Bob called us to stand up, saying, "GEEKS!" and got on with his show.  In fact, I have seen more grief and misery from Scots and Pirates than anyone in sci-fi costumes.

If I have to look at 'Danes in their daily-wear, and Playtrons in their varied guises, and the attention-grabbing flakes showing a little too much or wearing too bright or thats-just-wrong or just-plain-uuglee, if someone can wear a "F*CK YOU!" t-shirt, how can a sci-fi costume possibly be "insulting" to me and ruin my good time?

If someone comes to my Faire wearing a crown or dresses oh-so-obviously like Queen Elizabeth or even as King Henry VIII, should I ignore them?  Deny them?  Order them put to death on-the-spot?!?  Well, I don't, and I don't let it bother me.

We had two young Doctor Who's come to Scarborough Faire, regularly, several years ago.  Both wanted to meet the King and Queen.  You just call them both Doctor and get on with your day.

As to Historic or 'sense of the period' of garb, the Playtron costumes cover the entire spectrum from the Dead-on as-accurate-as-modern-process-allows to the snicker-behind-your-hand to the painful-to-view.

Why, oh, why would one make a period costume that they obviously took hours, days, weeks, months, years in planning and creating, only to use the worst possible materials and/or color choices?!?

It makes me cringe when a lady wears the finest of Court gowns, but made in cheap light-weight Polly-Esther or in day-glow and neon colors!  Even my lack-of-taste is affronted!

I can only snicker at those who wear the leather armor, spiked and horned, embossed and adorned and engraved with all manner of symbols and sigils Celtic, pseudo-Celtic, neo-Celtic, crypto-Celtic, et al, only to be wearing tennis-shoes.  It is a work-in-progress, nothing to raise my ire.

...

And what in the name of St. Thomas Aquinas is up with those girls wearing the giant boots, shorty short skirts, long curly neon ribbons in pony-tails and their painted noses ... IN THE PARADE?!?  Now, take not myne meaning wrong, for I am much enamored of gazing at the long legs of young women, and 'tis myne own fondness for the peek-o-the-cheek they display, but the parade represents the Faire and they do not, in any way, represent my Faire.