Faire: Should it be Fantasy or Historically Accurate or a Mix?

[Noble Dreg]

I believe the public has voted on this subject long ago...add up the bottom line of all the Ren-Fairs (argueably a mix of H/A and fantasy), then compare it to the bottom line of the SCA and other such groups...wonder who makes more?  Lose the fantasy and you lose the playtrons/paytrons...Lose the playtrons/paytrons and you lose the income...lose the income and you lose the fair.  I'll take the mix.

[Thistle]

Well, if you're going to ask what I really want..   

What I'd really want is for a stuffy French maitre'd in funny ren regalia and a crazy thick accent to pull said trekkies or stormtroopers aside at the gate, hand them each a poofy shirt and doublet for the day, and say "I do believe sirs would be more comfortable in zis...."
Maybe even have a jester hat on hand for the Klingons to cover the bumps. Then they can protest "I am NOT a Merry Man" all they want. 

I kid, but there really is 'stepping on other people's fun,' and I really do believe that happens when you drag sci-fi into faire. It just totally breaks the "old timey" mood, and while it's fun for said trekkies playing "holodeck" it can totally break the spell for others.

I suppose I see it much the same way as wearing jeans to the opera or an evening gown to the barn dance. It's legal sure.. but it's rather rude and inconsiderate. Where along the fantasy and H/A line the line breaks, well that's for a given faire to decide, but at least for my taste it's well and away on this side of blatant high-techy sci-fi. Faire is not a con*, and I think it's just basic good manners to not go out of one's way to break the milieu of a given setting.




*nor is it a stitch-counting, "what did you dye that wool with m'lord" recreationist event, happily granted.

[Cobaltblu]

I agree with Thistle regarding any sci-fi or technological characters such as Anime, Darth Vader (Yes I have seen on youtube a number of videos of Darth riding a dragon ride, having an audience with the king, walking around ren faires and etc), stormtroopers, and etc.  It just doesn't fit in at a ren faire and is rude in my opinion.  Now there are plenty of non-garbed patrons which is fine because they decided not to dress up, but when someone does dress up the least they can do is wear something remotely appropriate for the event.

Regarding fairies, nymphs, trolls, dwarves and so on I read a number of replies to this topic and honestly never thought about the fact that people in the renaissance DID believe in the existence of these types of creatures.  So I suppose I am not so opposed to these fantastical creatures at faires.

If I DID own a faire I WOULD refuse admission to anyone dressed as Star Trek, Storm Troopers, Darth Vader, etc.  Perhaps I would give them the option of renting a costume.  Of course they would be paying customers but the benefit of the few dollars admission from them would be more than offset by the damage to the faire's image which would occur when Queen Elizabeth gets scanned by a tricorder and the starship security chief shoots the queen's guards with his phaser rifle...or when Darth Vader tries to convert a young knight from the joust to be a "powerful Jedi".

Regards,

CB

[DT_Masters]

What do you think?

Should faires be fantasy, historically accurate or a mix?

Should there be fantastical creatures such as elves, fairies, nymphs, dwarves, vampires, hobbits, santa claus, stormtroopers and etc allowed (on staff or by playtrons)?

My personal opinion is it should be as historically accurate as possible and fantastical creatures should not be allowed either on staff or by playtrons.  I wouldn't go to a fantasy faire or one with any fantastical creatures on staff...and wouldn't go to any faire where a lot of playtrons were dressing as fantastical creatures.

Regards,

CB

If it didn't have the fantastical creatures, it wouldn't be fun. If it isn't fun, people don't come. If people don't come, it goes bankrupt and out of business.

What one may want is not necessarily entertainment.....and Ren Fests are entertainment. People want to experience the fantasy version, not the realistic version. People would absolutely hate living back then: no hot and cold running water, no plumbing, something of a social caste system with potentially no way to break out, one may win the sword fight but die in agony weeks later from blood poisoning from a knife cut, no realization with a deadly result of microbes because Louis Pasteur wasn't around yet (hello, childbirth fever)....and so forth.

But also, look at it from another way. You and I know that he is a stormtrooper because we have seen the movies. But what if we were from back then? What would he be to us? In all probability, a knight from a strange land with exquisite armor ................. but nevertheless, a knight in armor.

So, in a sense, he's very realistic. It is only our knowledge of the present which makes him not realistic.

Further, keep in mind that the paying audience maybe in their own fantasy, such as I am. Time Traveling Anthropologist. I go to have fun and take pictures. In a sense of the fantasy, by allowing for the faeries, that justifies the time traveling anthropologist because the future is learning things about the past that they didn't know............

.................but if one makes it all absolutely historically accurate, then why bother with a time travel mission?

In living in my fantasy, on my next time mission, for Tx RF, I am planning to go somewhat native. But to go native must agree with why I go in the first place, to take pictures. I love the suggestion by another RF.com of (words to that effect) "perhaps you are a rich landowner who got tired of the trappings and comfort of wealth and left that behind to become a traveler. Your camera could have been a gift from some gypsys you spent several weeks with."

Now, I love that and my concept of such a person crosses between Gulliver and Whovian.....with the costume being more Whovian. So I'm searching the catelogs of what would fit around the time, but be more of a gentleman than a nobleman, what would be Whovian. And if it is cold when I go, I won't be wearing a cape but a llama wool parka.

Is that absolutly historically accurate? Perhaps not .......... but who cares? It's suppose to be fun!

Why go to a Ren Fest? Most people left history back in school ....... they probaly aren't that anxious to go back to it.

Keep in mind, this is an entertainment industry ............... not an educational one.

[Marietta Graziella]

*note to self*

Don't go to CB's faire.  I am unwanted and not historically accurate enough and will be turned away at the gate.

Thanks for the heads up on that one.  I'll take my money elsewhere.

MG

[cowgrrl]

If I DID own a faire I WOULD refuse admission to anyone dressed as Star Trek, Storm Troopers, Darth Vader, etc.  Perhaps I would give them the option of renting a costume.  Of course they would be paying customers but the benefit of the few dollars admission from them would be more than offset by the damage to the faire's image which would occur when Queen Elizabeth gets scanned by a tricorder and the starship security chief shoots the queen's guards with his phaser rifle...or when Darth Vader tries to convert a young knight from the joust to be a "powerful Jedi".

Regards,

CB

One thing to keep in mind is that you would not be just refusing admission to a person dressed like a Storm Trooper.  That Storm Trooper is going to go back to work & tell his friends 'Don't go to that new Ren Faire.  I was dressed up like a Storm Trooper & they wouldn't let me in.  I drove all that way to have a day at a Faire & it was all a waste'.  That is not good for business.
Also, where are you going to draw the line, age-wise?  As I said in a previous post, my son dressed up as a Grim Reaper this year & my daughter dressed up as an Asian girl.  I see kids every year in some form of Halloween costume.  Its fun for them.  My daughter plans out what she's going to wear every weekend, depending on her mood & the weather.  She's come up with some...interesting combinations (fairy feelers + fairy wings + Ren dress = a very happy daughter) but she loves every minute of it.  I've seen more than a few Goth-looking teens walking around Faire in platform boots & lots of black.  
I honestly don't think it damages a Faires image to occasionally have cast interactions with fantasy or non-Ren characters.  Now, I would not want to see Darth Vader & several Storm Troopers marching in a Faire parade every week but if the cast King & Queen see Darth & comment 'My lord, you must have come from a land far, far away' I don't have a problem with that.  

[Captain Jack Wolfe]

"No doublet, no broadsword, no service." 

No thank you.

[Black Armor]

I agree with Thistle regarding any sci-fi or technological characters such as Anime, Darth Vader (Yes I have seen on youtube a number of videos of Darth riding a dragon ride, having an audience with the king, walking around ren faires and etc), stormtroopers, and etc.  It just doesn't fit in at a ren faire and is rude in my opinion.  Now there are plenty of non-garbed patrons which is fine because they decided not to dress up, but when someone does dress up the least they can do is wear something remotely appropriate for the event.

I agree.  I think that it's great for people to use the renaissance period as a guidline and add their own fantasy embellishments.  I obviously did.  I wanted to make my own armor and liked the idea of chain mail armor and leather armor.  I came up with a design and made it the way I wanted but didn't got too crazy with the fantasy aspect(at least I don't think).  I think I fit in at the faire and people seem to like it.

I do believe it is rude to dress as a stormtrooper, ect because of the intent behind it (I'm not talking about small children in halloween costumes).  I think that most of the people who do that are deliberately trying to be disruptive and are mocking the event.  Like someone has already stated, it's like going to a black tie event and wearing ripped jeans and a dirty t-shirt. 

[Scarlett]

If it didn't have the fantastical creatures, it wouldn't be fun. If it isn't fun, people don't come. If people don't come, it goes bankrupt and out of business.

What one may want is not necessarily entertainment.....and Ren Fests are entertainment. People want to experience the fantasy version, not the realistic version. People would absolutely hate living back then: no hot and cold running water, no plumbing, something of a social caste system with potentially no way to break out, one may win the sword fight but die in agony weeks later from blood poisoning from a knife cut, no realization with a deadly result of microbes because Louis Pasteur wasn't around yet (hello, childbirth fever)....and so forth.

But also, look at it from another way. You and I know that he is a stormtrooper because we have seen the movies. But what if we were from back then? What would he be to us? In all probability, a knight from a strange land with exquisite armor ................. but nevertheless, a knight in armor.

So, in a sense, he's very realistic. It is only our knowledge of the present which makes him not realistic.

[/quote]


Wise you are DT Masters.  Blinded by his own feelings CB is. 

[Angus]

Many children, in quite a few different cultures "Dress up and Play" at various games, I've done it, and chances are so has everyone else on these forums at one time or another...

There is a similar parallel with Renaissance Festivals, and it is not "If you want to play with us, dress like us..."  
The one point to remember is that the "Stormtrooper/Trekker/Anime" character took the time to appear in costume in order to share in the fun, Historically accurate or not.

They want to be seen, and they want people to look at them, and in a place where almost everyone is in a costume, some folk must go to extremes in order to stand out and be seen!

I have many doublets, and costume pieces, I always appear in period garb, yet I drove a Jeep to get to the fest, I paid my entry fee with plastic, called home to check on my dogs with a cell phone, took medicine to get over the hangover from the previous days festing, and I still feel at home there, so why wouldn't Darth Vader?

[CapnJack]

Amen to that.  What an awesome post.  I think you really hit the nail on the head here.

[theChuck]

There is a similar parallel with Renaissance Festivals, and it is not "If you want to play with us, dress like us..."  
The one point to remember is that the "Stormtrooper/Trekker/Anime" character took the time to appear in costume in order to share in the fun, Historically accurate or not.

They want to be seen, and they want people to look at them, and in a place where almost everyone is in a costume, some folk must go to extremes in order to stand out and be seen!

i would agree with that, but there are plenty of conventions out there for those guys. you don't see people showing up to anime/scifi cons in ren garb, do you?

[Captain Cornelius Howard Duckman]

*shifty eyes* Actually theChuck?

I do. And I'm usually one of them. Any excuse to wear a kilt, right? Plus, you can pass off garb as cosplay rather easily. "Me? I'm william wallace!"

[Synikul]

i would agree with that, but there are plenty of conventions out there for those guys. you don't see people showing up to anime/scifi cons in ren garb, do you?

I wear ren garb at sci-fi conventions. We sell fairy wings at both fairs and conventions, friends of ours sell thousands of dollars worth of elf ears at both. We couldn't exist if the patrons didn't want it. The Stormtroopers play along with it. At one con last year a squad of them walked past us in the food court, and the leader said "Watch out, they have big bugs here."

[Emerald Shaunassey]

i would agree with that, but there are plenty of conventions out there for those guys. you don't see people showing up to anime/scifi cons in ren garb, do you?

Ummm.... I know here in Oklahoma a number of us rennie performers who take our acts to Cons (sci-fi and anime) to fill in dates on our performance schedules.  I will be taking my troupe to DEFCON 7 in August (our first Con) and the owners are very excited about our "crossing over."  From what I've heard, Rennies are taken very well at Cons.

Just my tuppence,
Emerald