where can I find a pattern for this?

[Ser Niall]

Does anyone know where I can find a pattern that comes close to this coat, as seen on The Tudors?  I'd like to eventually make something similar, but I haven't seen any patterns that approximates it.

[CenturiesSewing]

The Tudor Tailor book has it, would just need to add length. They have a pattern set as well, http://www.tudortailor.com/hmgajh.htm

[Ser Niall]

Thanks for the link.   I didn't know what it was called, which is probably why I couldn't find a pattern.  I was searching for a tudor coat, and they're calling it a gown.

In the picture, it looks like it has a hood, or large collar.  Do you know if the tudor tailer pattern can be modified to have this?

[CenturiesSewing]

In the book they have the option for a curved turn back collar not just the square yoke styled one.

If you have a doublet pattern that fits you, it would not be too hard to convert that into what you are looking for if you don't mind a few mock ups.

[Wickedvox]

Get in the habit of making mock-ups now Ser Niall--you'll need to do it for a really good fit and when you start mixing/drafting patterns. You'll spend an equal amount of time ripping seams and recutting pieces if you don't make mock-ups (speaking from experience lol!). It's easy enough with all these super-talented people to support and guide you

[Ser Niall]

On the advice of everyone on this board I'm already in the habit of making mock-ups.  I did a muslin of my doublet and had to adjust the pattern accordingly.  Even with this, after my doublet was sewn together I still had to take it in a little. 

[Kate XXXXXX]

The Royal Palaces website has a free child sized one that you could enlarge:  http://www.hrp.org.uk/HamptonCourtPalace/educationandcommunity/learning/funandgames/activities

I made this:

[Wickedvox]

The Royal Palaces website has a free child sized one that you could enlarge:  http://www.hrp.org.uk/HamptonCourtPalace/educationandcommunity/learning/funandgames/activities

I made this:

Ohhhh...now *that* is gorgeous! I need that orange material for my Roma outfit I'm planning!

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh604-early-tudor-noble-mans-outfit.html

I have this pattern from Reconstructing History. This would work for the Outer Great Coat.

[Kate XXXXXX]

It might, but I've never had anything but disasters from their patterns!  The RP one went together like Lego. It now resides here, in their Education Room, aqlong with the green kirtle, a coif and a flat hat.



http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/ightham-mote/

Wickedvox, it's more red than orange, with lots of gold thread.  It's silk and viscose, bought in a shop in Walthamstow!

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

I hear you on that, Kate!

But this pattern was the only one I could find. 12 years ago, SIMPLICITY had a Tudor Great coat pattern tht went to a 3XL. The pattern was out for a year only.

[Kate XXXXXX]

The thing I find with the RH patterns is that they take so much time and effort to adjust to fit (both the bits to each other and the whole to a human being!) that you might as well start with pencil and paper and draft your own from Janet Arnold or Susan North or Norah Waugh...  And the instructions skim over the construction details you really need and give you acres of (frequently badly researched and incorrect!) historical data.  I object to paying for this sort of mess.  At least with a Simplicity pattern you know what you are getting (usually a flavour of historical that will need a bit of adjustment along the way to make it fit, and cheap!).  At least with Simplicity, you can trace off the pattern, use standard methods to adjust to fit the customer, and usually get away with a single toile and one or two fittings.  THREE toiles for a gown, plus a complete redrafting of major pattern pices, is not an economic option for us professionals!

My advice for this garment: Draft up a standard bloke sized pattern (for, say, a bloke of 5'10" with a 42" chest) from the RP kid's one, and adjust as per customer requirement.

[gem]

My advice for this garment: Draft up a standard bloke sized pattern (for, say, a bloke of 5'10" with a 42" chest) from the RP kid's one, and adjust as per customer requirement.

Kate, do you have a good tutorial on how to do that? I can draft and drape, but I am totally intimidated by grading! (I'm almost exactly the size the Tudor Tailor patterns are drafted for, but have no idea what to do with JA or others!)

[Kate XXXXXX]

Er...   No!  I could show you, but I haven't ever had to make instructions for doing it!

[CenturiesSewing]

Gem, the slash and spread method works for a number of things.. http://blog.caseybrowndesigns.com/tag/pattern-grading/
You could also shift the pattern in increments but that gets a bit more tedious at times.

[Wickedvox]

My advice for this garment: Draft up a standard bloke sized pattern (for, say, a bloke of 5'10" with a 42" chest) from the RP kid's one, and adjust as per customer requirement.

Kate, do you have a good tutorial on how to do that? I can draft and drape, but I am totally intimidated by grading! (I'm almost exactly the size the Tudor Tailor patterns are drafted for, but have no idea what to do with JA or others!)

This lays out grading in 3 different methods and they have pictures: http://www.threadsmagazine.com/item/4368/making-sense-of-pattern-grading/page/all

[Kate XXXXXX]

Grading is fine for two or three sizes, but not from child aged about 7 to adult with 42" chest!  I find with that the best thing to do is treat the pattern as a scale pattern and draft up as if enlarging a diagram.  So, roughly, if the pattern is sized for a 25" chest, and you want a 42" chest, the pattern needs to be made 1.68 times larger.

Damn!  I KNEW someone had made a vid!  Our own Centuriessewing

http://youtu.be/lGVTgXftt9U

[Dinobabe]

So I find it interesting that no one pointed out that he is standing next to a car!! Total time warp!!

[Ser Niall]

Thanks for the tips everyone.  I don't think I'm comfortable with drafting or scaling a pattern myself.  However, I did find something similar in a commercial pattern (period patterns), it says it has 3 styles of gowns.  The Henry VIII looking guy on the envelop looks like he's wearing something similar to what I'm going for, I can simply lengthen it.  http://www.amazon.com/Early-Tudor-Garments-1495-1537-Pattern/dp/B00188L4V2

So I find it interesting that no one pointed out that he is standing next to a car!! Total time warp!!

What are you talking about?  That looks like a pretty standard 1580 model year Ford

[gem]

Niall, from everything I've heard, those patterns aren't beginner-friendly (or friendly at all! LOL)--little to no (or confusing) instructions, pieces that are poorly drafted and don't line up well, etc. I think  you'd have better luck working with the Tudor Tailor patterns Kate recommended--either the ones in the book, or one of the specific patterns sold on their website.

It is unfortunate that there aren't more men's Tudor patterns available. The information is out there, certainly (Tudor Tailor, King's Servants, PoF, etc), but it would be really nice if there were a few more commercial patterns produced, for those of us who aren't really interested in drafting/grading (I do myself, but for Milord I just want to sew & go!). I was hoping MA would come out with a kit to match the woman's Tudor, but she did a woman's Venetian instead.

[Ser Niall]

Niall, from everything I've heard, those patterns aren't beginner-friendly (or friendly at all! LOL)--little to no (or confusing) instructions, pieces that are poorly drafted and don't line up well, etc. I think  you'd have better luck working with the Tudor Tailor patterns Kate recommended--either the ones in the book, or one of the specific patterns sold on their website.

It is unfortunate that there aren't more men's Tudor patterns available. The information is out there, certainly (Tudor Tailor, King's Servants, PoF, etc), but it would be really nice if there were a few more commercial patterns produced, for those of us who aren't really interested in drafting/grading (I do myself, but for Milord I just want to sew & go!). I was hoping MA would come out with a kit to match the woman's Tudor, but she did a woman's Venetian instead.

Yikes, I'm definitely going to stay away from that pattern then.

[Cilean]

Okay so I have a couple versions.  Any of these can be changed to make that Coat which was known I think as a Gabardine or Cossack, or Gown.  Remember what you saw in the Tudors was a few decades out of time, as they used Elizabethan couture.

Here is some information from Drea Leed's site:
http://www.employees.org/~cathy/cote_body.html
From Reconstructing History:
http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh611-1490s-pre-tudor-mans-gown.html

http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh604-early-tudor-noble-mans-outfit.html

http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh615-early-tudor-1500-1520s-mans-gown-and-jerkin.html

From Tudor Tailor:
http://www.tudortailor.com/hmgajh.htm

I Hope this Helps!!!


Cilean

[Orphena]

Ser Niall,

You may want to check out your local library in the theatre section. I have had some success using theatrical costuming books (some that come with simple line patterns) to create such a coat.

[Ser Niall]

http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh615-early-tudor-1500-1520s-mans-gown-and-jerkin.html

I Hope this Helps!!!

Cilean

Thanks for those links.  That jerkin linked above looks pretty neat, might have to keep that in mind for an outfit.  The sleeves are really cool.

As for the gown, thanks everyone for your suggestions.  Lots of ideas here, I'm sure something will pan out.  This is going to be for a costume for next year's festival, so I have some time for research and prep.

[TiaLD77]

Ser Niall,

dont toss the idea of the Period Patterns completely out the window, you can usually find them fairly cheap on e-bay. Now dont get me wrong they can be difficult to work with, I suggest you get a roll of freezer paper so you can trace off the pattern pieces you will need to construct your coat (that list in the instructions is usually easy to find and understand). then once you have your pieces, refer back to the tudor tailor, or JA's POF on how to construct it. Most of these garments are easy to construct its the sizing that can be the pickle, and its one of the main reason I will still purchase patterns by Period Patterns.

Just my 2 cents and now back to lurking...

[gem]

Wow, Tiall, that's great to hear! The sizing question is where I tend to run into issues, too--not so much the construction--so thanks for putting this pattern back onto *my* radar!

[DonaCatalina]

Like TialD, I use traced patterns to adjust sizing. But I use plaid Christmas paper to give me a grid. After Christmas you can find tons of it in the dollar stores, sometimes for .50 a roll.