Author Topic: The search for Richard III  (Read 11098 times)

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Offline BLAKDUKE

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2012, 05:11:09 AM »
DONNA C.

Not necessarily.  The traditional story is as you say, however there was never any definitive report of HOW Richard met his end.  It could very well have been by an arror in the back as he was riding toward Henry Tudor after having unhorsed and killed Henrys standard bearer. It seems that everyone did everything behind his back that day.

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Offline Captain Jack Wolfe

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2012, 05:40:32 AM »
And in the first video on the page linked in post #12, the researchers acknowledge that if they have indeed found Richard this will most certainly rewrite the history texts, particularly where Tudor mythology is concerned.

Here's the latest update from the Beeb: Richard III dig: 'Strong evidence' bones are lost king

Quote
DNA will be extracted from the bones and tested against descendants of Richard's family.

Dr Turi King, who is leading the DNA analysis, said: "It is extremely exciting and slightly nerve-wracking.

"We have extracted teeth from the skull, so we have that and a femur, and we are optimistic we will get a good sample from those."

The tests are expected to take about 12 weeks to complete.

If their identity is confirmed, Leicester Cathedral said it would work with the Royal Household, and with the Richard III Society, to ensure the remains were treated with dignity and respect and reburied with the appropriate rites and ceremonies of the church.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 08:01:04 AM by Mad Jack Wolfe »
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Offline Captain Jack Wolfe

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2012, 09:35:08 AM »
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Offline RenStarr

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2012, 09:58:48 AM »
Here's somthing posted on Yahoo today. 

http://news.yahoo.com/battle-bruised-skeleton-may-king-richard-iii-121528688.html

I don't know if there's any new info in this report vs what's already been reported thru the BBC.  Thought I would post it anyways.
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Offline Welsh Wench

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2012, 11:31:37 AM »
Which brings up another thought--

What if the battle had turned favorable for Richard? What would England have been like without the Tudors? Better or worse?

And a link of interest--

http://www.historum.com/speculative-history/20967-if-richard-iii-had-fled-bosworth-field-survived-fight-late-4.html
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Offline Welsh Wench

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2012, 04:24:58 PM »
Combining a previous topic on Richard III--

http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=14699.15

To answer the question, the Stanleys always backed a winning side even if it was the last minute.
The move to crown Henry Tudor made Lord Stanley the step-father of the King.

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Offline DonaCatalina

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2012, 05:19:18 AM »
I see that they finally dtermined that the second skeleton was female. Twelve weeks will seem like an eternity of waiting.
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Offline DonaCatalina

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2012, 05:20:30 AM »
I also noted something odd that they said about the female skeleton. The joints were all broken apart.
No What odd circumstanes led to a female being broken apart at the joints (drawing and quartering) and the buried under the floor of a church?
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Offline Captain Jack Wolfe

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2012, 08:22:31 AM »
An interesting take on things from a Tudor historian: A Tudor historian's view of the Richard III excavations

She brings out quite rightly that not only should this spur a re-examination of Richard III, but the reputations of Thomas More and William Shakespeare thanks to their rather dubious characterisations of the monarch.
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Offline Rowan MacD

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2012, 04:38:47 PM »
I also noted something odd that they said about the female skeleton. The joints were all broken apart.
No What odd circumstances led to a female being broken apart at the joints (drawing and quartering) and the buried under the floor of a church?
  That would make for an interesting sub-story....Drawing and quartering was a traitor's death (high treason) and I don't think they were allowed to be buried in hallowed ground after execution much less inside a church.
   Another question would be: If she was D&Q-why were her parts gathered back together to be buried? It was customary to display the body parts in different areas of the city.
  Perhaps she was not killed this way, but racked? 
  To add to the mystery: Only nobility, royals and the very wealthy rated a church burial.  I wonder who she was?
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Offline Welsh Wench

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2012, 05:05:14 PM »
That is what Jack and I were talking about.
Who is she?

If she were a heretic, she would not have a burial in the presbytery.

Could it be a woman that they wanted to keep her death silent?
But then Greyfriars was a monastery of sorts.

Robert Herrick, the mayor of Leicester, bought it in 1612 and built a mansion there, fifty years after Henry VIII had it knocked down.
Could she have been down there from that time?

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Online PollyPoPo

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2012, 06:47:15 PM »
Joints all broken apart?  Phrasing might indicate a reburial, where bones were disinterred after soft tissues were gone. 

Are there any reports as to what was with the body in the way of shrouding, garments, etc.?
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Offline DonaCatalina

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2012, 04:56:21 AM »
The phrasing for reburial after only skeletal parts remain is usually just that, skeletal remains. Stating that the joints were broken apart usually indicated visible stress on the bones where the cartilege and tendons were forcibly seperated. It would be interesting if they tested her bones for DNA or even dating.
One king's traitors were another king's heroines for much of English history. Post Mortem honors?
As for Will Shakepeare and Thomas Moore, it is pretty much a given that they played to the Tudors' vanities for their daily bread.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 04:57:25 AM by DonaCatalina »
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Offline Captain Jack Wolfe

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2012, 08:12:20 AM »
I keep coming back to the "broken at the joints" wording as well, since that would indicate shearing trauma where the ligaments and tendons were pulled free from the bones. With no other remarkable trauma mentioned, she was quite probably broken on the rack for whatever reason. The post mortem honours angle is an interesting one. A martyr, perhaps? It's a fascinating mystery to be sure.

Regarding More and Shakespeare: a good many people don't know the history surrounding these men's patronage, so it can come as a surprise that what they've accepted as fact is indeed propaganda. My wife, for instance, hadn't pieced it together until I got her to reason on the history. Unfortunately, this is another case where the Big Lie principle worked.

Here is a link to the video of last week's press conference about the discovery: Video of the Richard III discovery Press Conference
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 09:59:41 AM by Mad Jack Wolfe »
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Offline Welsh Wench

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Re: The search for Richard III
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2012, 11:16:42 AM »
You have to wonder, too, if the Battle of Bosworth would have been necessary if Richard's ten year old son Edward had lived. He would have inherited the throne and perhaps Richard's death would have been not warranted.

I do hope they rewrite history but I won't hold my breath.
Some people prefer the myth rather than the truth.

I hope too that he is buried in his beloved Yorkshire.

Now if we can only find out who the female is......
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