Ties for Tie on Sleeves- how many, and where?

[Rowan MacD]

  I am tweaking my Noble bodice for small issues that annoy me.
  I will be using my new sleeves this weekend (it was too hot earlier this month to debut them) for the first time, and the issue is this:
  My MA pattern shows only 3 ties per sleeve- Front and back edges of the sleeves where they meet in front on the inside of the arm, and one at the top of the shoulder curve, which supports the entire weight of the sleeve.  There is nothing in back.
Once tied on, this leaves rather large gaps that show the shirt/partlet.  I do not like this, especially in the back and between the shoulder point and the front.
     It seems to make more sense to have five or six tie on points rather than three.  So,  I have the rings and some laces, and am looking for more aglets (they're around here somewhere) I just need to know where to place them for best effect.
     I would prefer not to have to resort to pinning, which is period, because I don't like to get stuck.
   Suggestions?  Pictures?

[isabelladangelo]

Start with a ring/eyelet at the top of the shoulder.  Go back an 1 1/2" on either side from there until you feel it looks right.  I rarely have more than three rings for the sleeves to tie on and often only use one.  However, in order to get the sleeve to gappage ratio correct, just start at the top and work both sides until you like it.  :-)

[Lady Gregory]

Thanks for asking this as I was wondering the same thing.  My bodice has three loops built in and I was thinking about adding a couple more, but I think Isabella is correct on just playing with the spacing until it looks right.  My sleeves looked off until I put it over my very full sleeved chemise, which filled up the extra space.  I still need to tweak the placement of where I tie them on to get that perfect "sleeve to gappage ratio".  Love that term, btw.

[DonaCatalina]

I usually put in 5...at 10, noon 2, 4 and 8 o'clock.

[Rowan MacD]

Start with a ring/eyelet at the top of the shoulder.  Go back an 1 1/2" on either side from there until you feel it looks right.  I rarely have more than three rings for the sleeves to tie on and often only use one.  However, in order to get the sleeve to gappage ratio correct, just start at the top and work both sides until you like it.  :-)

  Thanks everybody,  I am so relieved to guess right.  I had already done this one by the time I checked the responses.
The MA pattern  has a tie at the top of the sleeve curve and at both ends. Basically the entire sleeve is suspended from the one ring at the top. the other two are for tying the sleeve together in front.
  I now have 4 rings and ties on each sleeve.  Looks like it fixed the problem of back-gaping when the arm is extended forwards.   I can add more if need be. 

[gem]

Coming late to this discussion, but on the MA listserv over the weekend, they actually had a brief conversation about this. Two people suggested adding lacing strips or a strip of buttonholes all along the sleeve cap (shoulder) and the sleeve head (top of sleeve), and then lacing them together. They said it was very secure and eliminates any gap altogether.

I don't know; I kind of *like* some gapping; otherwise, why not just make integral (sewn in) sleeves? I guess it would give you the ability to attach the sleeves before you got dressed.

[Rowan MacD]

    Hubby suggested something like that, but I wanted to try it MA's way the first time.       I used lacing (grommet) tape on another doublet (simplicity pattern) and it works fine, as long as the attachment points are covered.   You have to get creative on placement of the tape so it doesn't show, but it's very secure.

   As for gappage, you are right, of course-Some styles of bodice/sleeves (especially in the middle class garb) look more authentic with obviously laced on sleeves, the gaps allowed for ventilation and range of motion when you had to do chores all day.   Most country fairs had vendors that sold colored ribbons and laces to the working class to 'dress up' the outfits, so you have to assume they were meant to be seen.

   Gaps aren't seen much in noble garb, but since formal portraits were so rigidly posed, we really don't know how the dresses/costumes 'performed' when people were moving in them.  We have to figure that out for ourselves. 

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

I do 3 to 4 sets of ties per sleeve, depending on how full the sleeves are. The ties are mostly 5/8" wide Grosgrain or Velvet ribbon about 26" long.


The back of baron Frederick's Doublet showing Sleeve ties. There were 3 sets of ties for this Doublet.