police

[SirRichardBear]

I agree with all that which is one of the things that makes the idea that any one can fire a fire arm and it takes no skill to use a fire arm.   Sure to stand at a range and pull the tigger doesn't take much skill ( but even there I've seen people end up on their butts) but to really know how to use a fire arm in a real situation takes skill and a lot of practice.  Something many police departments no longer require officers to do.

So Officer how far are you behind on your ticket quota today?

[PurpleDragon]

So Officer how far are you behind on your ticket quota today?

Officer: We don't have a quota anymore... they let us write as many as we want.
You: Dude..that's harsh
Officer:  Your eyes look a little bloodshot, have you been drinking?
You: Dude, your eyes looke a little glazed, have you been eating donuts?

[Just Randall]

Here's an experiment for you, (we used this as a training aid). Set up your firing line at 5 yards(15 feet). Place pistol at firing line(have someone watch pistol). Run around block as fast as you can, having people jump out and scare you as you return to the firing line. Retrieve pistol and try to hit target as fast as you can. Based on a fifteen round magazine you'll be lucky to hit it twice.

[Poldugarian Warrior]

So it's been settled. The gun is more dangerous than a sword. Because an unskilled person using a gun can be a bigger threat and miss what they're shooting at and more people can be killed or wounded by inaccuracy than the wielding of a sword.

[escherblacksmith]

Okay, I think this has gone about as far as it can go in this direction.

The discussion was about:

what do you do if a cop stops you and inquires as to why you have such weapons in your car/bag/person?

So, in the interest of keeping this from turning any further into a "cops suck" or "cops are great" thread, keep it to the topic at hand., preferably without belligerant responses, as, in the end, that never does any good.

thanks!

[Sir Ironhead]

what do you do if a cop stops you and inquires as to why you have such weapons in your car/bag/person?

I would tell him/her that I am going to faire.  If they squawk about they way I am transporting them, I tell them I'm driving a truck so I don't have a trunk to put them in.  After that, well I don't know.

[Wolfden]

For those of us in Texas, check out the following link which defines "illegal weapons."

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ls-16.pdf#page=71

You will note that swords, maces, knives over 5 inches and a host of other "weapons" commonly found at ren faires are specifically named as illegal in Texas. That said, this law is not commonly enforced in Texas; When was the last time you saw someone arrested after purchasing a sword at faire? Technically, they are violating the law since it is legal to sell, but illegal to possess.

My best advice to anyone who is stopped by law enforcement is to adhere to the same CHL requirements as if you were carrying a licensed firearm. Tell the officer up front what you have and where it is, turn on your dome light as he approaches (so he can see inside easily) and keep your hands in plain sight, they do not like surprises! Carry the weapon in your trunk or at least out of reach and out of sight and do not have alcohol on your breath. It is illegal to consume alcohol in any amount and possess a firearm, even with a CHL. Again, the officer will probably view your costume weapon in the same light as a firearm so follow the same rules! If you are carrying one of the illegal weapons and you are upfront about it (and not doing anything stupid!) the officer will likely let it pass. That said, he is by no means required to look the other way and you may run into an officer who has no idea what goes on at a ren fest and lock you up regardless.

Finally, remember that if a police officer asks your permission to search your vehicle, you have the right to refuse. However, having a sword in your car will give him probable cause. If you choose to carry one of these weapons, just be aware that, in Texas, you do run the risk of spending some time as a guest of the county! For those of you outside of Texas, check your state and local laws. Here in Texas, regulation of weapons is reserved to the State, local governments are prohibited from passing ordinances regulating weapons. Many states do not have this prohibition and weapons laws can change literally from town to town so be sure you know your situation.

[Poldugarian Warrior]

If you drive a truck best place is in the bed of it. That way it's still out of arm's reach of the driver as the cop would probably have more of a problem of the sword being carried in the passenger compartment. When I bought my first sword from a sword shop in town. I didn't really think of putting it in my trunk or passenger compartment, figured either way would be sufficient, but the owner told me to make sure I transport it in my trunk, just in case I were to get pulled over. If your cool with the cops and answer all required questions as has been evryone's consensus so far, they should be quite understanding. I've been pulled over a few times for driving too fast and hitting a curb when it was a horribly rainy night and I couldn't see the lines that mark the lanes, so I was actuay riding in the turn lane and I drove right up on the median block. Luckily I had been at the pub several hours before this happened. and most of the alcohol had burnt off by that time, and I was heading home. Or I would've been in more serious trouble, and he probably figured the damage to my wheel and steering was enough punishment and I lost a beauty ring on the wheel. and had to go back and retrieve it. So just go with the flow. Most cops are quite understanding as long as you're not trying to pull anything over on them.

[Black Armor]

what do you do if a cop stops you and inquires as to why you have such weapons in your car/bag/person?

I would tell him/her that I am going to faire.  If they squawk about they way I am transporting them, I tell them I'm driving a truck so I don't have a trunk to put them in.  After that, well I don't know.

Behind the seat is the best place if you don't want to put them in the bed.

[Poldugarian Warrior]

That's good too, but what if they want to search the vehicle. Can they try and charge you with the transport and concealment of a deadly weapon, since it is in the driver/passenger cmprtmnt even thought it's behind the seat and damn near impossible to reach?

[Hoowil]

For one, if they feel they have a reason to search the vehicle, you've probably already got problems. Even if 'reasonable cause' is fairly loosly defined, I seriously doubt anyone is going to search your car on a whim. They have to expect to find something. Don't give them a reason.
Also, if it comes to it, swords and such are expensive, and succeptable to weather damage. If you make sure to keep it secured away, like under the seat, and explain you didn't want it stolen in a parking lot, or rained on, it shouldn't be a problem. Again, given you haven't already found yourself ina situation where a problem is being looked for.

I do think it odd that legally I can arry a sword (I will get followed and questioned by police, but I can carry it) but that there seem to be issues about carrying one in the car. Think about it, a gun rack in the window is perfectly fine. Even one of those that mounts to the inside of the roof, where its NOT visable, is fine. Maybe if you have a truck, get a cheap gun rack to hang in the back window to put your swords in. Then they are visable, and identifiable before the officer, or anyone, gets to the vehicle.

[PurpleDragon]

For those of us in Texas, check out the following link which defines "illegal weapons."

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/ls-16.pdf#page=71

You will note that swords, maces, knives over 5 inches and a host of other "weapons" commonly found at ren faires are specifically named as illegal in Texas. That said, this law is not commonly enforced in Texas; When was the last time you saw someone arrested after purchasing a sword at faire? Technically, they are violating the law since it is legal to sell, but illegal to possess.

Gotta disagree with you here Wolfden;  The page you refer to does not speak of swords, daggers, maces, it only refers to handguns.  Below is what the Texas Penal Code says;

Texas Penal Code Title 10 CH.46
46.5 NONAPPLICABILITY
(e)THe provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying a bowie knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a cermony in which the knife or sword is significant to the performance of the ceremony.
(g)For the purpose of Subsection(b)(2), "premises" includes a recreational vehicle that is being ussed by the person acararying the handgun, illegal knife, or club as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permenent.  In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home and horse trailer with living quarters. Text of subsec. (g) as added by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 795 1

[Wolfden]

Thanks, PuprleDragon, the link did not go to the correct page. Yes, it is the Texas CHL and Selected Statutes (emphasis added) which also includes selected references to other pertinent laws. Please refer to page 36, the beginning of PC Chapter 46. PC 46.01, specifically defines swords as an "illegal knife" under section 6E; I have removed references to firearms and explosives in order to save space:

PC CH. 46. WEAPONS
PC 46.01. DEFINITIONS. In this Chapter:
(1) "Club" means an instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by striking a person with the instrument, and includes but is not limited to the following:
(A) blackjack;
(B) nightstick;
(C) mace;
(D) tomahawk.

(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.
(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument.

I agree that your post does appear further in PC 46 and there are other exemptions such as PC 46.02:

PC 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

I would encourage Texas residents or visitors who may carry "illegal weapons" for any purpose to read PC 46 in its entirety. Those in other states should also review any applicable laws and make sure you understand them. In my original post, I did not mean to give the impression that there were no exemptions, again, thanks to PurpleDragon for following up.

The original question of this thread was what to do if you encounter the police while carrying your weapon. Unfortunately, a few months ago in Montgomery County, (where many of us have to drive through to get to TRF) two deputies were attacked by a man wielding a sword and were forced to fire on him. I suspect that if you are pulled over by the Montgomery County Sheriff's Dept. and are carrying a sword in your vehicle, they may have a slightly different attitude than they did before this incident. I do not mean to imply anything negative about them, just that they have had a recent, negative experience and you need to keep that in mind should you encounter them. Let me also be clear that I in no way mean any disrespect to law enforcement, I have worked along side them for many years and they have my utmost respect. As has been said here so often, be honest and forthright in any encounter with the police and you will most likely come out okay.

[Poldugarian Warrior]

Isn't it funny though that the Constitution gives us the right to carry and bear arms if need be, but state laws can forbid the carrying of said arms. So basically, you can only ever defend yourself with your fists, and even now that's dicey because there are so many lawyers nowadays. Man, we've got a screwed up system.

[Hoowil]

I've not found the actual codes yet, but a couple articles restate what I had remembered about CA law. Basically, any blade that is not purely for utility purposes can be carried ( double edged, lock bladed ), but must be readily visable and identifiable if accessable to the bearer. Only exception being 'switch bladed' knives, or anything with a mechanical or other assisted openning blade, if over 2 inches of blade length. Sword canes and the like, unidentifiable by design are automatically considered concealed.

Pretty hard to conceal a sword, and still have it readily accessable to the bearer. Possible, but not easy.