Using plastic canvas in hats instead of buckram

[gem]

I'm working on Lynn McMasters's tall hat pattern, and it calls for millinery wire everywhere--along the edge of the brim, of course, but also around the top and around the base of the sides.

My question is, do you still use all that wire when swapping out plastic canvas ("needlepoint mesh") for the base? All of the curves in this pattern are built into the structure (the side band is wavy, which pulls up the brim into the arch) so it looks like much of the wire is primarily for support/stability, not to form the curve in the brim.

So... yes or no on more wire?

Gramercy!

[Rowan MacD]

  I have made 3 McMasters tall hats, and one arched brim hat using the mesh.
   I use the wire on the base of the crown and the brim, since these need to be 'shape-able'; oval for the crown and whatever curl you like on the brim.  You can make your own call on the crown base wire though.
  I find it makes it easier to sew it down to the brim later if I have a smooth 'bar' around the edge to loop the thread over.
   
  The crown 'tip' wire can be dispensed with entirely;  since the material will keep it's shape and does not crush. I have had no problems at all leaving that off.
   I'm divided on whether it's better to still make the brim from buckram/felt/wire; the mesh is fine for a flat brim, but does tend to resist curling if you want to shape it.    Even when using heavy wire on the brim edge, the brim will tend to flatten out.
  One of my tall hats is made with a buckram brim, but I haven't worn it yet.
  I need to post pictures.

*Note: I have noticed that LM added to her instructions, that it's OK to use the mesh in her hats -particularly on the crowns.   

[gem]

Thanks, Rowan! I knew you'd have the answer.  Wire around the base for something to stitch around is *brilliant,* and I will absolutely do that. As for the flattish crown, I think you may have just sold me. I was actually kind of hesitant about the shape of this hat, and I think it's the aggressively curved brim--vs just jauntily turned up on one side. If it does flatten out somewhat, that might be a good thing!

I need to re-check my sizing. I mocked up both the small and medium, and thought I wanted the medium (the small is too small, and yet not small enough, if that makes sense!), but I had it tilted on my head; and all her photos show it centered straight up-and-down:

[Rowan MacD]

  The mesh makes felting (mulling) and covering the hat with fashion fabric  a breeze.  The material lies flat and even for a professional finished look, and there is no crushing of the hat form when you slide that snug crown side over.

    If a surface looks too flat (I like my crown top to look soft and slightly convex),  I add a layer or two of felt ovals to build it up and soften the lines. 
   You get these anyway when you cut the brim felt, so save them for that.
   

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Perhaps I am an old fuddy duddy when it comes to hat making.

Though I prefer the Plastic canvas for Gabled and French Hoods. The rest, I use the heavy theater wejght buckram, 19 guage millinery wire, single fold wide bias to cover the wire. I have worn my Buckdam made hats with no problems what so ever of them losing their shapes.

[LadyStitch]

In the buckram and wire vs plastic canvas I will say it depends on the hat.  There are some hats that are going to take a beating.  As I generally work in the theater realm most of the hats I make have to survive 30+ performances, and being toss about a bit backstage. I've made both.  I lean toward preferring the mesh because if there is a good chance my work will get wet from water or large qualities of sweat plastic canvas will hold it's shape better than buckram.  However if I am making an art piece, I'd go buckram.

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

From personal experience, I make Hat brims seperate from the  crown, then attach them when both pieces are complete.

The brim has a band covered in wide Quilt Binding to absorb any moisture and help to retain its shape over many wearings. I will have to try a tall hat made from plastic canvas to see which I like better.

[gem]

The brim has a band covered in wide Quilt Binding to absorb any moisture and help to retain its shape over many wearings.

Lady K, I'd love to see a photo of that, if you get a chance!

I've made several hats, but just made my first one that needs an internal band of some sort (to cover the join between brim and crown). I think Lynn McMasters calls for millinery grosgrain for this application? I was looking at some commercial hats of the same type (flat cap, what I'm making), and they're just serged! Not exactly what I was looking for... I'd prefer a proper finish to my own work! 

[CenturiesSewing]

Petersham ribbon is often used on the inside to cover the join/act as a band.

[Lady Renee Buchanan]

I am nowhere near the sewing caliber of anybody on these threads, so my comment is based on being a wearer of hats.  I have a tall hat made with plastic canvas, and I love it.  Because it's nice and light on my head.  Bristol summers are brutally hot, and I like to be without sweat dripping down.  It's heavy enough that the wind won't blow it off but you hardly know you are wearing it.  I bought it in 2005, and it has held it's shape completely.  I'm wearing it in my picture.

[bookwench]

If I may ask, how do your buckram hats hold up to moisture and humidity?  Every buckram piece I've made has succumbed to the Texas heat - just the humidity, no rain needed to make them wilt!  I'd love to make tall hats and other larger pieces, but I fear they'll end up as misshapen puddles on people's heads. 

Perhaps I am an old fuddy duddy when it comes to hat making.

Though I prefer the Plastic canvas for Gabled and French Hoods. The rest, I use the heavy theater wejght buckram, 19 guage millinery wire, single fold wide bias to cover the wire. I have worn my Buckdam made hats with no problems what so ever of them losing their shapes.

[isabelladangelo]

If I may ask, how do your buckram hats hold up to moisture and humidity?  Every buckram piece I've made has succumbed to the Texas heat - just the humidity, no rain needed to make them wilt!  I'd love to make tall hats and other larger pieces, but I fear they'll end up as misshapen puddles on people's heads. 

We have a bad humidity issue here in Maryland too.  I didn't make it, but my 17th Century hat and my 16th C tall hat - both by Tall Toads - have cardboard as the stabilizer.  I think they have another inner material - like canvas- before you get to the satin (inside) and velvet.   

They have warped a bit but they are really easy to reshape.  I know some people who have purposefully "misted" their hats to reshape them (having them in the bathroom during a hot shower works well, I'm told).  To redry them, it's just a matter of getting them into the shape you want (flat surface like a table; or, if you want an upturned brim, having something to hold the brim up) and then putting them in a dry room in the sun.  You can't soak them, of course, but a little misting hasn't hurt either of my hats at all.