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Author Topic: On the subject of Garb  (Read 2114 times)

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Offline EltonJ

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On the subject of Garb
« on: April 05, 2015, 02:29:35 PM »
I think being a Samurai would be very cool.  Uhm, so . . . suggestions?

Offline isabelladangelo

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2015, 07:26:16 PM »
I would recommend against it. 

Offline Rowan MacD

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2015, 12:34:40 PM »
  Where would you be wearing it at?   Not too many Samurai at renaissance festivals (actually never seen any myself).

   If you are just a Playtron wanting to do your own thing at dress up, like the Dr. Whos, Trekkies Steampunkers, and barbarians, etc.  than have at it.

    If you are asking "Is it acceptable for cast, or could it be part of the 'HA' element of Faire?" I would agree with Isabella.
   Japan didn't directly trade with Europe, thus Japanese products, styles and customs would have been all but unknown, to the European countries. 
  At most- there might be sketches of warriors, and even some small trinkets bought from a trader (having changed hands many times); but a Samurai in full armor or gear? Nope.

   You DO see it in the SCA, but only as part of the persona of the warrior wearing it;  I will also say he was the ONLY one dressed like that at Lillies.
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Offline Toua Taru

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2015, 02:03:11 PM »
Our home faire just had an Orient themed weekend so we saw a lot of geisha and samurai.

It's probably best suited for conventions and such.
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Offline Rowan MacD

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2015, 11:14:46 AM »
  Orient theme weekend?  Sounds interesting.
  If the garb is done right I would love to see some gorgeous Kimonos and traditional makeup.   A well done samurai is something to behold, especially if he has the lacquered armor.
 
  You do see a lot of Samurai-ish costumes at some of the Anime Cons (since the genre has primarily Japanese origins), Transformers-like stuff-but nothing really 'traditional.'.

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Offline Hoowil

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2015, 10:27:25 AM »
I would say, if you are doing it for fun, as a patron, go for it. I would be neat to see what you can come up with. Unfortunately, if you are going to try for a faire cast or volunteer position it would probably not work, as it would be a little too outside the themes of most faires. My only other comment would be that I don't know if there is as wide of a community to help with research or resources, so it may prove more difficult to get help if you get stuck on something. There might be, but its outside of my area of study/interest. If you are doing it for fun, it is what you want, and you think you can pull it off, I say go for it. Unless you are hurting yourself or someone else, don't let anyone discourage you.
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Offline EltonJ

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2015, 09:43:32 PM »
I would say, if you are doing it for fun, as a patron, go for it. I would be neat to see what you can come up with. Unfortunately, if you are going to try for a faire cast or volunteer position it would probably not work, as it would be a little too outside the themes of most faires. My only other comment would be that I don't know if there is as wide of a community to help with research or resources, so it may prove more difficult to get help if you get stuck on something. There might be, but its outside of my area of study/interest. If you are doing it for fun, it is what you want, and you think you can pull it off, I say go for it. Unless you are hurting yourself or someone else, don't let anyone discourage you.

Hey, thanks.  I am trying to figure out a persona, so I can fit in. Jeese, I wish I was 20 again.

Offline isabelladangelo

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2015, 10:54:34 PM »
I really dislike the "do whatever!" for a lot of reasons.  One of the biggest is that it ruins the atmosphere of the faire.  Nothing quite jars you out of the faire atmosphere than seeing a furry stormtropper.  Sorry, this ain't ComicCon.  Unfortunately, far too many people are treating the Renaissance faire as just another excuse to dress up as Sailor Moon or Star Trek or *insert favorite fandom here*.   Most people come to see the Renaissance at a Renaissance festival. Yes, there are often fantasy elements to some faires, but there is a difference between going around as a hobbit and going around as an Andorian.  (LOTR was written in the manner of middle age epics on purpose for one thing...)


Offline stonebiscuit

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2015, 09:32:12 PM »
OP, if you pay your way, you can wear whatever you want within the limits of dress code/law/decency.  If fitting in is your goal, know that you'll probably find that easier in European garb.

Isabella: "Sorry, this ain't ComicCon." No, it's not. SDCC and NYCC bring in at least 150k people every year. TRF is the only faire that comes close to those numbers for single weekend attendance, at a quarter of the ticket price. Most faires don't beat that in a whole season.

Of course there is a place for historical costumes, characters, reenactment. I love the history at faires, I really do, but let's not pretend that "most" patrons come out for the love of the Renaissance. TRF is the best-attended faire in the country by several orders of magnitude, and it's not known for its commitment to historical accuracy. The most popular acts on the ren faire circuit are Renaissance in name only, if even that.

Cosplay kids are the future of the renaissance faire, just as they are the future of all fandom. In my not limited experience, they tend to 1) be out of their minds with enthusiasm, 2) be more fun to engage with, on the whole, than any other demographic,  and 3) bring their friends with them, and they are younger. It's the fourth that I keep coming back to, because quite frankly, if faire is going to survive into the future, it needs to bring in new generations of loyal enthusiasts, and fandom is where those people are.

Offline isabelladangelo

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2015, 10:21:49 PM »
Sorry, but I just don't agree.  I've seen, spoken with, and heard many people - including fellow rennies- complain about the furries and cosplayers at the faire.   Some people won't even come anymore because of the cosplayers.   I'm not saying that all faires need to be 100% historical - but it's very jarring to see someone walk by in a full Star Trek uniform followed by someone in a full furry outfit. 

The people that are dressing like this aren't doing it because they are the future of the faire - I've seen people well into their 40's dress up as sci-fi characters.  They are doing it because, quite honestly, they are being narcissistic with a "look at me!  I'm different!" forcing people to get out of the renn fest (historical and fantasy) mindset.  Dressing up should be about getting into the theme, not forcing a new theme on people. 
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 10:33:24 PM by isabelladangelo »

Offline Rowan MacD

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2015, 08:55:24 AM »
Sorry, but I just don't agree.  I've seen, spoken with, and heard many people - including fellow rennies- complain about the furries and cosplayers at the faire.   Some people won't even come anymore because of the cosplayers.   I'm not saying that all faires need to be 100% historical - but it's very jarring to see someone walk by in a full Star Trek uniform followed by someone in a full furry outfit. 

  The people that are dressing like this aren't doing it because they are the future of the faire - I've seen people well into their 40's dress up as sci-fi characters.  They are doing it because, quite honestly, they are being narcissistic with a "look at me!  I'm different!" forcing people to get out of the renn fest (historical and fantasy) mindset.  Dressing up should be about getting into the theme, not forcing a new theme on people.

  Isabella-Unfortunately, the only way you will keep the fandoms out of faire is to adopt a dress code similar to Disney (non cast cannot dress in costumes/garb inside the park) and enforcing it at the gate.  It's all or nothing- You have to let them wear what they want, or they can't wear anything but street clothes.  A good 30% of the patrons dress up in something or other, and that kind of gate can't be ignored.
   I totally agree that the motivation is nothing more than 'look at me!', but many of us in garb fall into that category, if we are being completely honest with ourselves.
   Playtroning a  Faire provides an opportunity to 'stand out' and be admired for our efforts; when most of our mundane lives demand that we be just another face in the crowd.

   As Stone biscuit indirectly pointed out-some of the big faires have already pretty much abandoned the 'renaissance' in favor of the almighty dollar.  As with anything-If you want to make money-you provide something that the paying customers will fork out the dough to see.

   IMHO-It is at that point that it ceases to be a renaissance festival, and turns into a circus.

   I just avoid those venues that don't suit what I prefer to see.   I leave the Carnival sideshows to those that enjoy that kind of thing; and as long as there is a P.T. Barnum willing to put on that kind of show, there is money to be made.   
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Offline Ser Niall

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2015, 09:06:57 AM »
I really dislike the "do whatever!" for a lot of reasons.  One of the biggest is that it ruins the atmosphere of the faire.  Nothing quite jars you out of the faire atmosphere than seeing a furry stormtropper.  Sorry, this ain't ComicCon.  Unfortunately, far too many people are treating the Renaissance faire as just another excuse to dress up as Sailor Moon or Star Trek or *insert favorite fandom here*.   Most people come to see the Renaissance at a Renaissance festival. Yes, there are often fantasy elements to some faires, but there is a difference between going around as a hobbit and going around as an Andorian.  (LOTR was written in the manner of middle age epics on purpose for one thing...)

My wife and I had a disagreement about this just over the weekend.  We went to smaller ren faire with the kids, since it's quite a bit less crowded and many of the acts they have some very good acts.  My stepkids love dressing up, and my stepson is really into comic book characters right now.  He dressed up as Cyborg from DC Comics for Comic-Con and he wanted to wear the same costume to the faire.  I told him that it wasn't the right place for that costume, but my wife said I should let him exercise his creativity.  I think it's our job as parents to guide that creativity, because not every costume or clothing choice is appropriate for every venue.  We compromised on a pirate costume for him, which he ended up putting together himself.

I understand that people will dress however they want at events, and unless you enforce some kind of strict dress code you're not going to stop it.  All you can change is what you do, and educate the people around you.  I feel like I taught my stepson that you need to respect the event that you're at.  I wouldn't go to a Star Trek convention wearing my Renaissance garb, so I kind of expect the same kind of respect in return when people attend the faires.

As an aside, we saw a group of actual furries at the faire.  First time I've seen them at any of the faires I've been to.  It did take me out of the renaissance mood and made it feel like a circus whenever they were around.  Plus my kids are afraid of those kind of costumed characters in general so they were freaked out by them.
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Offline Hoowil

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2015, 09:41:58 PM »
Most people can't tell the difference between Elizabethan and Henrican. Most even have a hard time telling between medieval and renaissance. Vikings and barbarians, and yes even pirates abound at faires, none being period (pirates did exist in period, but this was a few decades before the Golden Age of Sail) and most people seem to be okay with it. Samurai are a closer contemporary than Vikings. Yes, sci-fi cosplay can distract from the feel of faires, and I am not a fan of it, but to actively discourage patrons from exploring the idea of dressing up because it isn't up to your standards serves to only discourage participation at any level. To actively discourage people, especially patrons, from trying to participate will not make a faire feel more authentic, just more empty. Most of us were patrons once, and getting the feel for our garb was a learning experience, and an evolution of character.
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Offline isabelladangelo

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2015, 09:47:03 PM »
Most people can't tell the difference between Elizabethan and Henrican. Most even have a hard time telling between medieval and renaissance. Vikings and barbarians, and yes even pirates abound at faires, none being period (pirates did exist in period, but this was a few decades before the Golden Age of Sail) and most people seem to be okay with it. Samurai are a closer contemporary than Vikings. Yes, sci-fi cosplay can distract from the feel of faires, and I am not a fan of it, but to actively discourage patrons from exploring the idea of dressing up because it isn't up to your standards serves to only discourage participation at any level. To actively discourage people, especially patrons, from trying to participate will not make a faire feel more authentic, just more empty. Most of us were patrons once, and getting the feel for our garb was a learning experience, and an evolution of character.

Sorry, but I disagree fully.   Getting rid of the sci-fi will make those that don't dress up come back to the faire.  I've spoken with several people who won't come to the renn fest anymore because of how comic-con esque it has become.  I'm not saying strict standards but something PG and historically inspired (ie, not accurate) seems to be perfectly reasonable. 

Offline Hoowil

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Re: On the subject of Garb
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2015, 10:01:24 PM »
Most people can't tell the difference between Elizabethan and Henrican. Most even have a hard time telling between medieval and renaissance. Vikings and barbarians, and yes even pirates abound at faires, none being period (pirates did exist in period, but this was a few decades before the Golden Age of Sail) and most people seem to be okay with it. Samurai are a closer contemporary than Vikings. Yes, sci-fi cosplay can distract from the feel of faires, and I am not a fan of it, but to actively discourage patrons from exploring the idea of dressing up because it isn't up to your standards serves to only discourage participation at any level. To actively discourage people, especially patrons, from trying to participate will not make a faire feel more authentic, just more empty. Most of us were patrons once, and getting the feel for our garb was a learning experience, and an evolution of character.

Sorry, but I disagree fully.   Getting rid of the sci-fi will make those that don't dress up come back to the faire.  I've spoken with several people who won't come to the renn fest anymore because of how comic-con esque it has become.  I'm not saying strict standards but something PG and historically inspired (ie, not accurate) seems to be perfectly reasonable.
Historically inspired seems to rather fit the intentions of the original poster.
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