hat making difficulty level? and how H/A is the snood?

[gypsylakat]

I've never made a hat before, but i really want to try and make a tall hat, how difficult would you say it is to get it to look right? and how do you know if you're doing it right  lol? I understand you use a stiff first layer, buckram (which i'm not actually sure where to get...) and then you cover it with the material you want to use and decorate it... right?


Also, how H/A is the snood?

[Kate XXXXXX]

I tend not to use buckram.  A lot of work goes into a hat, and you don't want it to collapse on you the first time it rains!  I used Timtex for a couple of projects, but word is that they no longer make it...  I'm having great success on the present project with a double layer of non-woven pelmet weight interfacing, fused together with Bondaweb Wonder Under.

There are some very nice hat patterns about, and while it's fiddly to get a really good finish on them, a bit of patience goes a long way.  I tend to finish lots of bits by hand.  Silk thread is great for hand finishing.     The pattern will tell you exactly what to use and how to assemble the hat. 

Some nice hat patterns:


http://www.hatpatterns.com/136a.html


http://www.hatpatterns.com/135a.html


http://www.hatpatterns.com/134a.html


More ideas:

http://www.employees.org/~cathy/tallhat.html
http://www.sempstress.org/patterns/drafting/hats.shtml
http://www.reddawn.net/costume/cap.htm
http://www.elizabethancostume.net/ Hit the section on hats and headwear.  A mine of informati0n and How To pages!

[isabelladangelo]

Snoods date back pretty far.  The link is to a fresco of the very early 14th century.   There is evidence of snoods going back much further than that (ancient Egypt I think?)   For the 16th c, they were worn in Italy, Germany, and France.

The big thing about snoods in period is that they were netted or made of ribbons that were sewn together.  They were not crocheted.  However, most of the crocheted ones are really cheap and you'll see everyone wearing those anyway.   

[Master James]

I have Margo's hat patterns and while they are very nice patterns, the directions are hard to follow and in some cases very confusing.  I tried for quite a while to make a tall hat from them but just couldn't get the thing figured out and neither could my wife who has been sewing for FAR longer than me!  Many of the web site free hat patterns listed are very good and fairly easy to do too.

Here is yet another one:

http://www.modaruniversity.org/Hats.htm

[TiaLD77]

Snoods date back pretty far.  The link is to a fresco of the very early 14th century.   There is evidence of snoods going back much further than that (ancient Egypt I think?)   For the 16th c, they were worn in Italy, Germany, and France.

The big thing about snoods in period is that they were netted or made of ribbons that were sewn together.  They were not crocheted.  However, most of the crocheted ones are really cheap and you'll see everyone wearing those anyway.   

Good Info! Snoods tended to be Black, White, Ecrue(cream). Or in italy Gold cord was used. a nice pattern is this one from Lynn Mcmasters http://lynnmcmasters.com/xknot.html

[gypsylakat]

i suppose the crochet aspect was what i was wondering about... i think a ribbon one would look neat though... different too... what kind of width was the ribbon? think with gappage or like wider with less gap?

thanks for the links about hats new project for the winter

[isabelladangelo]

http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElenoraToledo.jpg

It's hard to tell, but I'd say maybe an inch gappage?  Medium thickness for the ribbon with beads at the cross overs.

[Danni]

Flat caps can be knocked out in an hour or so, they're really easy. The Alter Years out here in Cali has great patterns, and I think they have a website now.

If you have a garment district near you, go take a look there for hat bases. I found a starched mesh riding hat at ours that I was able to cover with extra fabric from my costume so it all flowed. Then I trimmed it around the crown with braid and added a feather. It came out great! You may be able to find something similar at a local fabric or craft store too and cut it to fit your needs. A friend of mine got a felt hat from a thrift store, trimmed and tucked where needed then covered with velvet to finish (for noble man's hat). Looked totally authentic, and cost all of $5!

[sealion]

This site has instructions for circular netting if you'd like to give it a try for your caul/snood. (I haven't tried it. I just bookmarked the site for future reference.)
http://knotsindeed.com/learn/circular.html

[Cilean]

Snood is not very H/A it is actually from the 1800's,  there is a netted caul that was jeweled and worn under French hoods, so I guess people saw that and made a conjecture, however the large baggy type creation is not.  However the 'Coif' or Escaffion and the Caul is period. Now a really inexpensive hat or head covering is a yard of good linen!

If you pick up the Tudor Tailor, they give some awesome examples and how to's to use the yard as a head wrap and they also give how to on making some 'head scarfs'    www.tudortailor.com

Here are some basic how to's for Coifs and Biggins:

http://www.virtue.to/articles/coif.html
http://www.elizabethancostume.net/headwear/coifmake.html
http://www.extremecostuming.com/articles/howtowearthecoif.html
http://freespace.virgin.net/f.lea/coif.html

This one is what most people consider a Biggins
http://www.bucks-retinue.org.uk/content/view/79/104/


For the Escoffion or Caul try Lynn's Site and she also has a Coif pattern as well.
http://www.lynnmcmasters.com/index.html

Margo's Patterns have some Hat choices and coifs as well so you can check out her stuff at:
www.Margospatterns.com

So I hope this helps!!

CIlean

[operafantomet]

Snood is not very H/A it is actually from the 1800's,  there is a netted caul that was jeweled and worn under French hoods, so I guess people saw that and made a conjecture, however the large baggy type creation is not.  However the 'Coif' or Escaffion and the Caul is period. Now a really inexpensive hat or head covering is a yard of good linen!

CIlean

This topic might be a bit old to bring up... But unless I am mistaking the terminology, the snood is not a 19th century invention. To get back to my everlasting costume reference Eleonora di Toledo, she always wore snoods. This was in 16th century Florence. In the book "Moda a Firenze" there's a whole chapter devoted to the subject (page 134-141), called "Snoods and hairstyles". The book describes Eleonora's snoods as being of "...gold filé plaited into different shapes, (...) in gold and silk, grey and purplish violet (...) clearly made to match specific garments.".

When traveling or outdoor, she usually wore a beret or another type of hat on top of the snood, which correspond with German and Austrian fashion. Snoods with a hat overneath was custom there, as well as the Nordic countries. The snoods tend to be smaller than the 19th century equivalents, but not so much that you can say the latter is a whole new invention.

Eleonora di Toledo with snoods:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze2/bronschooledt1550s.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze2/eleonoraditoledorelief.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze3/eleonoraditoledo1580svienna.jpg

You also find a similar headwear in the Veneto (Venice and surroundings), in the early 16th century. There they used a larger hairnet than in Tuscany, or sometimes also just fabric made into a coif like construction. They were attached to the back of the head, and held the hair loosely in place. Like here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/1525_venetian.jpg
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/cariani1520swien.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/tizianschiavona1511.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia1/catena1523venice.jpg

This is of course fashion belonging to Italy, Austria and Germany. English fashion might be another story, I'm not too skilled about H/A in that country. But snoods do definitely not belong solely to the 19th century.

[Rowan MacD]

  Even the period snobs in the SCA say that snoods are probably the only headgear they can all agree on that is OK for just about any era since the stone age.      
  Women have always needed to tie back and secure hair.  A net snood is simple to make, is cooler than a head wrap or veil in the kitchen, bake house or hot weather, and can be dressed up or down as needed.  It's a safe bet everybody used them.  
  I like the idea of using ribbon and beads.  Has anyone done that?  Is there an easy way to keep the knots straight?  I suppose I could use a pin or nail board to keep the spacing right....

[operafantomet]

I like the idea of using ribbon and beads.  Has anyone done that?  Is there an easy way to keep the knots straight?  I suppose I could use a pin or nail board to keep the spacing right....

I think Isabella d'Angelo has tried it - not for a snood, but for a partlet. It's the same technique, just different shape. She is a member of this board, so she'll probably contribute with more info!

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

When making hats and French Hoods, I do use a neavy duty Buckram from Judith M Millinery Supplies as well as 18 to 19 guage Millinery Wire. I cover the wire with Single Fold bias Tape. I have found that using a zig-zag stitch on the machine saves time over hand stitching. It's a matter of cutting the wire just so to not have much to over hang so to speak. Sewing the wire down twise and making sure needles do not get busted. It happens!  Duct Tape works slick to connect the back seam as the patterns from Lynn McMasters indicate, as well as the top crown fashion fabric. The McMasters patterns are the better patterns I have come acrossed for Hatmaking from the Simple to the more advanced.


Arched Tall Hat.


Elizabethan Tall Hat with a wider brim to make the King James I styled hat.


Italian Bonnet


Cavalier styled Hat using the TITANIC(Edwardian) hat pattern and modifying the brim size.
Which is why Lynn McMasters patterns are the easiest to use.Starting simple is the way to go.

[insidiousraven]

I'm about to make the flat cap from this lady's tutorial.  I'm terribly nervous.  For some reason, hats just seem more difficult.  I think its all the circles.
http://www.renaissancetailor.com/demos_elizabethanhats.htm

[redkimba]

Just a personal thing for me, BUT if you wear the snood - please do your hair before putting it on.  It just looks bad when you have on the gorgeous dress only to just stuff your hair in this loose net on your head...

[Rowan MacD]

I like the idea of using ribbon and beads.  Has anyone done that?  Is there an easy way to keep the knots straight?  I suppose I could use a pin or nail board to keep the spacing right....

I think Isabella d'Angelo has tried it - not for a snood, but for a partlet. It's the same technique, just different shape. She is a member of this board, so she'll probably contribute with more info!

A Partlet!?  That's fantastic!

[isabelladangelo]

I like the idea of using ribbon and beads.  Has anyone done that?  Is there an easy way to keep the knots straight?  I suppose I could use a pin or nail board to keep the spacing right....

I think Isabella d'Angelo has tried it - not for a snood, but for a partlet. It's the same technique, just different shape. She is a member of this board, so she'll probably contribute with more info!

A Partlet!?  That's fantastic!

I cheated a bit and use organza as a stabilizer, overlaying the ribbons on top of it and sewing them down to the organza.   

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jubileel/2600577487/in/set-72157604956712538/ - Lying on the ground somewhat flat before I added the collar or the pearls

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jubileel/2626942394/in/set-72157604956712538/ - When I finished the partlet and started to add the pearls.

[gem]

Isabella--LOVE!!

Marie Cadieux made a pearled cap for her Florentine gown of ribbons pinned then sewn together with pearls attached. She has step-by-step photos on her webpage.

[Rowan MacD]

Just a personal thing for me, BUT if you wear the snood - please do your hair before putting it on.  It just looks bad when you have on the gorgeous dress only to just stuff your hair in this loose net on your head...

I usually see this on ladies with shorter hair. It's really hard to keep layered locks in place, and the under-filled snood looks odd.   
  When my hair was cropped to shoulder length it would barely tie back at all, and I wanted to give the effect of long tresses.  I used a bag (muffin) hat for awhile, as well as a beaded snood until my hair grew out.   I recommend a cheap hair fall (doesn't have to exactly match your hair color) dressed to fill the snood, if you must wear an open net.      Otherwise, stick with a bag snood of solid cloth to cover the short brush of hair, then find something to stuff the bag with to simulate length.

[operafantomet]

Another snood, from a Florentine portrait. I ADORE this portrait!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze3/flor1570sunknown.jpg

ETA: in these hair nets, they often wore their hair braided, in two braids looped and fastened in the neck. Sometimes ribbons were added too. Renaissance women frequently wore false hair (read: real human hair that was not their own). It frequently appears in inventory lists, descriptions etc. from the era. So don't feel less period if you use this too!

[gem]

Anea, what a great portrait! That's what my hair looks like in my snood (kind of flat like that and not very full), so I'm very pleased to see it depicted like that on a real woman of the period.

I am working my way up to false hair, but I haven't any idea how to use it. Right now I'd love to figure out some way to add a few inches of length so I can braid/tape my hair around my head.

[Anna Iram]

I don't have long enough hair to properly fill a snood either, though I do love the look, so I'd just wear a fabric "cap" and cover it with a mesh snood in an alternate color. I did look for a fall of sorts I could braid into something pretty and clip into place easily, but all I could find in my price range ,which was admittedly small, was the hair falls with the giant clippy thing on the end. Does anyone have a good source for falls?

[Rowan MacD]

Anea, what a great portrait! That's what my hair looks like in my snood (kind of flat like that and not very full), so I'm very pleased to see it depicted like that on a real woman of the period.
I am working my way up to false hair, but I haven't any idea how to use it. Right now I'd love to figure out some way to add a few inches of length so I can braid/tape my hair around my head.

Check Sally Beauty store in your area, the have reasonably priced (start about $20.00) hair pieces and all the stuff you need to clip/fasten then to your head.   
  Start by tying back your real hair, or styling it in a way that the hair additions won't look out of place. Take a tail (or two) of matching hair, braid it or what ever you like to do and pin/clip it to your head to cover the pony tail of your regular hair if it's not long enough to braid into the hairpiece.  If you use jeweled clips, bands, hats or snoods, the transition area can be disguised very well. I have seen some ladies using those elastic, beaded, butterfly type combs (HairZing)

http://www.hairfinder.com/news/20071117.htm 

to very good effect. 
 


   

[LordPaulet]

Actually a decent pony fall will run you about 12 dollars at the local sallys...bought one just last week (DONT ASK QUESTIONS) lol

[LAVAGODDESSSS]

Anea, what a great portrait! That's what my hair looks like in my snood (kind of flat like that and not very full), so I'm very pleased to see it depicted like that on a real woman of the period.

I am working my way up to false hair, but I haven't any idea how to use it. Right now I'd love to figure out some way to add a few inches of length so I can braid/tape my hair around my head.

I was this way too...Do you have a Sally Beauty around?

They have a whole 'wall' o hair. Buy the one that is about $70.00 and they are in long strips. They have clips. What you do, is pin up sections of your hair, then literally just clip the thin 'weft' in. You should be able to find one that matches your hair color exactly.

I was intimidated at first, but also just make sure you don't get TOO long of the wefts. Just take a look, ours has a bunch out to show colors and length. You can style them, wash them, etc. I love it. I have short hair, after having hair to my butt...

and I honestly miss it. I wear a half head piece from Jessica simpson for ren stuff. It is basically an easier version that you pull up half your hair, pin up the bottom and then clip in this 'half cap' and then let down the top half of your hair. Wala!

Good luck!