Problems with the community fire

[brigaqueen1]

If I may add some of my thoughts...

I've been going to faire since about 1992...really didn't get into the whole "rennie" mode until I bought my chain maille in '94. When Brigadoon wasn't even called Brigadoon yet, we camped every weekend, for free. There were hardly ANY people at the old campground. Chaos consisted of 6 guys. And as the years came and went, more and more of us came and camped and found a wonderful place to hang out and have a great time.

I don't think raising the prices at the gate to get into camp is going to fix anything. Did it fix the problem (and it wasn't the full blown problem it is now, but it had the makings) when they started charging $10 per car? No it didnt. And having a ticket to get in the camp? Sorry that won't work either, because the young idiots that are running amok thru camp will just find people to sell said tickets to and get their money back. So, not only do they get to stay and camp and ruin some peoples good time, they also do it for FREE.

Boobs are the least of my worries...my problem is the underage drinking and drug taking that goes on. One year me and a friend carded the young morons coming into my tent asking for beer. Believe me, after the 5th kid came thru and got all pissy, we didn't have that problem anymore. That, and the fact that I do not hesitate to tell someone to either get the hell out of my camp or find Charlie or Mike to deal with them, keeps a lot of riff raff out of my way.

The cess pool, I'm sorry...the drum circle? I agree with some of you...take it down. Haul those big logs away and do NOT have a nice little bundle of sticks waiting to be lit once it gets dark. The few times I go out there? I always get into it with someone. Why? Because I will not stand for some punk getting in my face and "telling" me to move. I go to watch my husband drum, not to be yelled at by some punk(s) who think they "rule" that cess pool, bottom line. It's a FIELD for Pete's sake...and I need to try and move back from the fire with 200 drunks behind me? Yeah right.

Usually though, I keep my happy weed puller in my own camp. There are pleeeeenty of cool people I camp with that I don't need to go find a good time elsewhere. I will go and visit other camps, seasoned veterans of the campground.

And I have to add...I work in Randolph's. Have been a favorite of his for years. He's a great guy and the deal is this: King George does not want to offend any one INSIDE the faire (the people who pay to come inside his faire). So, if Randolph dresses anyone in chain maille, he has to put liners in. That is for inside the faire grounds only. What people wear at the campgrounds, chain maille or otherwise, is not up to Randolph or other chain maille makers.

I also think that maybe if these concerns about camp were addressed to Charlie, Mike and the other officers out there, then they can approach the TRF office and see what can be done. I personally will be super upset if a petition backfires and they just flat out stop camping period. I wait ALL year for this, like many of us do.

Charlie and the rest of the officers are doing their best out there. It's gotta be hard with 1000+ campers and they cannot be everywhere at once. Last year when some yahoo threw a mini keg into the fire and it exploded..Charlie had the fire dept come out and put out the fire, disbanded the cess pool and made all the campers go back to their hidey holes. I thought it was FABULOUS! I personally think they should extinguish that hideous cess pool fire at midnight every weekend! Take away the drunken underage mundanes fun...and they will vanish.

Lock up your valuables. Hide your coolers. Ask your camping neighbors to watch your stuff and you'll do the same for them if you decide to walk thru camp at night. If we band together and lookout for one another, then a lot of the thieving can be taken down.  I constantly watch everyones stuff when Im around. And I never ever give people I don't know anything alcoholic to drink. Sorry but I dont know them, they can drink my water or diet coke. If not, they can take a hike.

I would hate to see Charlie or Mike or any of those officers get fired over stories of them "not doing their jobs". It's not right. Put yourself in their shoes. It cannot be easy for them on any level people.

[tinkerbell]

May I suggest not slamming the security we do have. That job can't be easy....

Also, I stand by my earlier statement....if we don't go to the big fire, the problem will eventually take care of itself...maybe not this year or next but it will happen. I would really hate to have camping across the board taken away as a solution to this issue...(not that I don't think you did a great job on the petition DS, it sounds good...I just don't think thats the solution)

thank u i totally agree

[tinkerbell]

[/quote]
In Texas it's "Impersonating a Peace Officer" and it's a felony.
[/quote]it's only if u say your a cop...i am a 5ft3in female and i broke up a fight by simply threatening that they would go to jail...i am a firefighter and i have the cops on speed dial out there...i never said i would take them to jail just that they would go to jail...there is a difference...oh and u can simply go to jail by telling someone to f^%&ck off...it's called verbal assault...the and his friends were smart enough to walk away

[Sir Martin]

We seem to have a few people who have joined today and have made the majority (if not the entirety) of their posts in this thread.

Firstly ... welcome to all new members.  Secondly ... I am notifying you that the posts that contained a slam at a person (or persons) at Excalibur have been deleted.  I understand there was some confusion over the auctorial origin but this thread is not going to deteriorate into a flame war.

New members: follow this link and familiarize yourselves with the renaissancefestival.com forum guidelines.
http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=452.msg3287#msg3287

[tinkerbell]

I'm still undecided. It was an unpleasant incident. I was on a rant.

Still, management needs to get a firm hold on the insanity there. It would be a great time for all of the clans to get together at a great fire and socialize. Why do we need to put up with punks? I'd gladly kick the bejeebers out of one, even two or three, but I'm not willing to go to jail for it. TRF needs to get a handle on the situation, plain and simple.

This is a critical situation, and needs to be  handled in a stern manner. Raise my cost a bit, fine. Require a ticket to get in, fine. gate/fence off the camp, fine. Something needs doing. I'll gladly sign a petition if it's worded properly and there is support from all of us.

JMO


Also, I never got checked for a ticket going in. I don't know who was turned away, but I wasn't.

or be smart enough to not camp near the pit...that's just common knowledge...if u don't like the noise go to quiet family camping or bring ear plugs...the problem will eventually be taken care of..till then be smart and if need be get the cops involved...again common sense...all this is going to do is get rid of camping all together

[Celtic Gypsy]

I know a good number of you. Please don't fight and verbally attack each other. We are all part of the Fairemily. BrigaQueen1, I agree with you. I have been camping at TRF since 1994 and the there are always going to be troublemakers...but having said that. I (too) have found that by (watching different camps & being part of a camp that) makes it clear to the unwanteds (in a civil manner) that we do not have any drugs or alcohol to share or give them...well, they generally don't hang around. I also have bad hearing, so after the third time of saying sorry I really can't hear you...they don't want to deal with me and walk off. I camp with police officers (who only made that known to strangers if they have to at faire), firefighters, and EMTs. We have a closed off camp site. (Of course that is mostly because we don't want the idoits coming into our camp, but when they do we nicely point the way back out.)
It doesn't matter if you are part of the Rogues, Safe Haven, Brigahalla, Chaos, McLotofus, or any of the other wonderful camps...we are all fairemily. We have to band together to make an impact (peacefully). If we fight within our fairemily, it only makes it easier for others to invade and attack our fairemily. I love faire. I love my fairemily. I don't want to see any of you hurt. I love Charlie & Mike for the wonderful people they are and the great job they do. Ya'll are correct in saying that we need more security for the camping grounds. I heard from one of those in the know, that there was over 3,000 campers this past weekend over the 40 acres of camping ground. (I believe they include the actual parking lot in the acreage. I may be wrong...I have known to be before.) As for as stopping the loud music, I don't know what you can do other than tell the police and let them handle it.

[Bonny Pearl]

Blue hand over that rum.

Gee we must all really be fairemily... this is reminding me of a scene out of a movie where everyone scowls at each other over thanksgiving dinner.  I'll be in the living room watching the game and having a beer thanks, lol. ...'did you see that play??  what was he thinking?'

[Wolfden]

Friends:

First, my apologies to the moderator, I sure hope I did not open a can of worms unnecessarily when I posted about going to the police. So you understand my frame of reference here, I worked very closely with law enforcement for over a decade when I was a paramedic in a crime infested city in New England, and I was also a reserve deputy until I moved south. My sole intent was to make sure that law enforcement was aware of any problems and that they could help clean things up. If something illegal or dangerous is happening, regardless of the location, the proper course of action is to notify the police and let them handle the situation under the laws we all live by. I do not recall any of the posts prior to mine mentioning that they reported these incidents to a police officer on site. I have nothing but respect for all police officers and especially for the ones who make TRF a safe place. My sincerest apologies if I offended anyone.

[Lord Dragonspyre]

In Texas it's "Impersonating a Peace Officer" and it's a felony.

it's only if u say your a cop...i am a 5ft3in female and i broke up a fight by simply threatening that they would go to jail...i am a firefighter and i have the cops on speed dial out there...i never said i would take them to jail just that they would go to jail...there is a difference...oh and u can simply go to jail by telling someone to f^%&ck off...it's called verbal assault...the and his friends were smart enough to walk away

In the context of the conversation, it applies, as we were talking about why it's not a good idea to wear a black shirt with the word "SECURITY" on the front in white letters. Considering the fact that it is blatantly stated on the TRF website that "The grounds are patrolled regularly by police officers," it stands to reason that if you were walking about wearing such a shirt and acting as a security guard, reasonably competent prosecutor could convince a jury that by wearing such a shirt constituted stating that you were a police officer. It would be no different than wearing a toy badge and doing the same thing. You're not saying you're a cop, but the fact that you're wearing it and doing the things you're doing say it for you.

[KeeperoftheBar]

I am anything but an expert but I question having "SECURITY" on a shirt or jacket is enough to get one in trouble for impersonating an officer.  They have private security firms and I don't believe they are all official law enforcement personnel.  Having "DEA", "ICE" or "MCSD" would be another matter.

Also I know it would burden an already overwhelmed police staff but would a zero tolerance policy on underage drinking possibly help.  I've seen officers force an underage drinker to pour out his drink and give them a warning but they quickly get a replacement when the official leaves.  I wish they could arrest 'mother's little darling' and make their parents come get them out of jail.  I believe if the underage ravers knew they had a good chance or getting picked up and hauled off, they would be less likely to party at the campgrounds.

Lastly, I understand the petition idea but I worry that King George might decide the campgrounds are not worth the money and headache to fix and just close the area.  And that would be a terrible loss.

It is truly a terrible thing that our current litigious society prohibits us from forming a vigilante group and policing ourselves.  Zorro, where are you when we need you?

[Lord Dragonspyre]

Zorro, where are you when we need you?

While Zorro keeps in line with the romantic time period, we need Batman. To paraphrase Governor Tarkin: "Fear will keep the local ravers in line, fear of the Batman."

[eldatari]

Also I know it would burden an already overwhelmed police staff but would a zero tolerance policy on underage drinking possibly help.  I've seen officers force an underage drinker to pour out his drink and give them a warning but they quickly get a replacement when the official leaves.  I wish they could arrest 'mother's little darling' and make their parents come get them out of jail.  I believe if the underage ravers knew they had a good chance or getting picked up and hauled off, they would be less likely to party at the campgrounds.

I completely agree!

[maelstrom0370]

As a complete ousider, non-member of any Clan, and...Hell! Not even a resident of Texas, I feel wholly justified in offering my opinion. 

It seems to me that your best course of action would be to simply start a new Fire/Drum Circle.  I don't know the layout of your campgrounds, but it seems there's room.  Christ, McLotofus alone sounds like they take up a football field!
It seems a lot of you "old timers" miss the magic and ambience of the original Fire/Drum Cirlce.  Truly, I am sorry for your loss, but as Blue pointed out, it's the spirit of the thing, not the location.  Also, by creating your new and improved Circle, you can keep an eye on who does and doesn't get in.  Someone else mentioned how they used to see people "patrolling" an area and warning others off as it was a "private party".  Being in your own area, with a few people acting as "look out" to the undesirables would save a lot of hassle.  If a simple "Sorry, this is private/family only" doesn't work, it seems enough of you have various and sundry police officers on speed dial and should be able to make a quick call.  Any "legal" or "official" action you take (sorry D.S. nice petition, though!) has the unwanted effect of backlashing onto you as well as your Ravers.  I don't see the Faire management enacting rules for "outsiders only" as this opens up a WHOLE new can of potential problems.  What I would hate to see is anyone trying to take matters into their own hands.  A stand-off doesn't do anyone any good these days.  Not every teen or 20-something is ready, willing, and able to "bus' a cap!", but unfortunately, there are enough of them out there who are and odds are you'll find more than a few in your group of Circle-Invading-Hooligans.  I think the "Get over it!" opinion so vehemently pointed out earlier is a non-issue.  Something obviously needs to be done if women need to be escorted after dark for fear of rape!  Ironically enough, it falls to the armed and armored group (rennies) to find the most peaceable solution.  If your security is too over taxed, (and from reading this thread, they are) then I'd say it's up to the Clans, Play-trons and Pay-trons alike to band together, establish your boundaries and get back to enjoying Faire and camping on your terms.
Anyways....thems just my 2 cents.

[SirRichardBear]

I know conventions like A-Kon in Dallas have volunneers walking around  with "SECURITY"  T-shirts they man the doors etc to ensure that people have badges to get in.   They also clear the halls etc.  If there is real trouble the call the police and don't try and handle it themselves. 

[maelstrom0370]

I know conventions like A-Kon in Dallas have volunneers walking around  with "SECURITY"  T-shirts they man the doors etc to ensure that people have badges to get in.   They also clear the halls etc.  If there is real trouble the call the police and don't try and handle it themselves. 

The problem I've seen with the "SECURITY" t-shirts at self-run events, is that, as soon as word gets out that the person wearing the shirt isn't, in fact, any sort of real security gaurd (and it will the first time one of the people wearing the shirts can't back up his or her warnings) then it all goes to Hell and can actually make things harder for real security personnel and off-duty police officers, as people just start assuming no one is actual security.

/I think that's the longest run-on sentence I've ever written!