Problems with the community fire

[Trillium]

Alright, boys & girls....let's play nicely.
Attacks will not be tolerated. 

This topic has been reported to the moderators and is under review.

[Lord Dragonspyre]

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL FOR A WOMAN TO EXPOSE HER BREASTS IN THE STATE OF TEXAS!!! Yes, I yelled it, I will always yell it! You can get Texas to change their laws, you could try Grimes county, but honestly, get over it. Personal pet peeve there men can show their breasts because women can control themselves but women can't show their breast because men have no self control.

Let's see what Texas State Law has to say...

Out at the campgrounds, you can find the following:

http://www.texassexcrimedefense.com/PracticeAreas/Texas-Sex-Crimes-Law.asp

Indecent Exposure
Indecency With A Child
Improper Photography or Visual Recording
Criminal Solicitation of a Minor
Public Lewdness



http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/leginfo/minorcode.htm

Minor In Possession of Alcohol
Minor In Consumption of Alcohol



http://www.mytexasdefenselawyer.com/texas-criminal-laws-penalties/drug-possession/

Possession of Drugs
Possession of Drugs with the Intent to Distribute


I'm still researching the exposed breast issue, but so far the only instance of an exposed breast being legal I've found is during breastfeeding.

Get off your collective arses and meet the wonderful police officers that patrol out there. They are easy to contact and find when you need them. I know that several camp elders have both of their personal cell numbers. I don't think they should have to give out their personal numbers, maybe George will buy a phone for them. Meet some of the elders from the larger camps, they can help too.

I already have a meeting set up with them to discuss these issues, at THEIR request, not mine.

I think that Mike and Charlie should get a thanks for all the hard work, not get reamed on this forum by a bunch of people hiding behind their computers. Besides Mike and Charlie there are also local sheriffs, dea, tabc, and other officers that float through the camp grounds too. I have personally seen them.

Nobody is reaming security, we're just saying that they're severely understaffed. If you'd read the WHOLE thread instead of getting so full of bluster that you're about to explode, you'd realize this.

[ScoutColt]

There is also a big difference between a woman exposing herself of her own free will and a woman being peer pressured for booze. Yes, it's her choice, thats fine, but the people offering the choice show the "unwanted" element that ren faire is actually just a different setting for girls gone wild.

Everyone loves our security. We just wish there were more of them. They do a fine job... but guess what... if there are only 4 firefighters in a city of thousands... buildings are gonna burn down regardless of how perfect the firefighters are. The same goes for security at faire.

As for calling folks hypocrites, not really a fair game to play. These are our characters. We know where to draw the line in our world of fantasy, and everything we do is with consent and thought (for the most part), and our names, titles, and the way we act are held in check by our actual realities.... Ravers... thats their real world. They dont pretend to be horridly debaucherous, or lewd and crude... they ARE. (not all but stereotyping for usefullness)

So before attacking people after admitting you havent read the entire thing, and getting "outraged" about a bunch of written letters that are here to this point conjecture and conversation... please realize that though there are many things we rennies do have in common with the ravers, that we are still extremely different. So please, feel free to discuss, (i'm sure everyone agrees with that) but don't start flaming, trolling, and generally causing a ruckus. It's not polite.

And in all actuality, thats what we are all talking about here (the entire topic in fact)... a group of people that come into our world ignoring our worlds rules and guidelines... and aren't polite with us and our things.

[ourevilone]

Actually, it is illegal outside in a public place for a woman to be bare breasted.  Why do you think the ones in chain mail have something covering the breasts?  It is against the law for a woman's nipples to show in public.  Why do you think that all the women at any public venue (other than a strip club which is "private") where they hold things like fetish balls are required to have something covering their nipples.  They must maintain what is called being "Texas Legal". 

Sorry darling, you are not correct. Sexually oriented businesses fall under different rules than the rest of us so strip clubs and fetish balls fall under that. The chainmail girls only have to cover them because that is what George wants, not the law. He doesn't want to offend people with such things as nipples(the horror the horror) so it is a faire rule that they be covered, not law and that is off as soon as you leave gates and head to the campgrounds.
Janet Jackson didn't get into trouble over her boobie boo boo because it is not illegal to show your breasts on a state level(or local level), local laws may differ(they don't here), but state wise, nipples have the right to see the light of day. That's why Galveston Mardi Gras is better than NOLA, you can flash without fear of going to jail.

Underaged nipples should never come out and play but that is the responsibility of the parent of that darling child. In case you were wondering, I have 3 teens, one of them female. They have all been to camp with me and all behaved because it takes a village and they have all of Valhalla, Brigadoon, and others keeping an eye on them. Would I like my underaged daughter showing her tits? No, but I am responsible to keep her from doing it(why do you think her faire name was Afelony?).

If someone says their debauchery is fine but someone else's is not, they will always be called a hypocrite by me. Who gets to decide that they can corrupt someone but no one else can? Character, fantasy or real life... It just doesn't fly. I think the shooter for hooters thing is just fine, if you don't like it, don't go over there.

[Miranda]

but there are some groups of people, few and far btwn, that are turning the fun debauchery into dangerous debauchery.  there are mass thefts, gang rapes, huge fights, and other scary activities.  a few yrs ago, we could leave all our beautiful stuff/jewlery in plain site in our unlocked car, now we have to walk all girls back to thier camp sites for fear of them being raped.  that's a HUGE downslide!!!

I hate to say it, but going places in groups and locking up valuables (especially in the trunk) are both good policies no matter where you happen to be.  Many crimes can be prevented with good sense, caution, awareness.  Yes, it does take some of the happy innocence out of things, but the alternative is far worse.  And for goodness sakes, if you are in situation with which you aren't comfortable, LEAVE.

[ScoutColt]

Actually, it is illegal outside in a public place for a woman to be bare breasted.  Why do you think the ones in chain mail have something covering the breasts?  It is against the law for a woman's nipples to show in public.  Why do you think that all the women at any public venue (other than a strip club which is "private") where they hold things like fetish balls are required to have something covering their nipples.  They must maintain what is called being "Texas Legal". 

Sorry darling, you are not correct. Sexually oriented businesses fall under different rules than the rest of us so strip clubs and fetish balls fall under that. The chainmail girls only have to cover them because that is what George wants, not the law. He doesn't want to offend people with such things as nipples(the horror the horror) so it is a faire rule that they be covered, not law and that is off as soon as you leave gates and head to the campgrounds.
Janet Jackson didn't get into trouble over her boobie boo boo because it is not illegal to show your breasts on a state level(or local level), local laws may differ(they don't here), but state wise, nipples have the right to see the light of day. That's why Galveston Mardi Gras is better than NOLA, you can flash without fear of going to jail.

Underaged nipples should never come out and play but that is the responsibility of the parent of that darling child. In case you were wondering, I have 3 teens, one of them female. They have all been to camp with me and all behaved because it takes a village and they have all of Valhalla, Brigadoon, and others keeping an eye on them. Would I like my underaged daughter showing her tits? No, but I am responsible to keep her from doing it(why do you think her faire name was Afelony?).

If someone says their debauchery is fine but someone else's is not, they will always be called a hypocrite by me. Who gets to decide that they can corrupt someone but no one else can? Character, fantasy or real life... It just doesn't fly. I think the shooter for hooters thing is just fine, if you don't like it, don't go over there.

So just out of curiosity, could you prove this for me and get people to go stand on the side of the ride outside faire with all their feminine wiles hanging out and video tape it? I'm truly curious to see how the authorities respond to it, because if it is true that it isn't illegal, I still have an odd feeling they'll all be told to leave or escorted off in shiny metal jewelry. And if I'm wrong, well, I'll have a tape of a bunch of people showin their boobies.

As for debauchery.... you don't agree to levels of such things? Debaucherous in ones private campgrounds is one thing... in wide open it's another. I mean, if it's not then your ok with your children getting to see people waving their happy parts at their faces and possibly using the swing that exists inside the camps you mentioned because I'm sure if you stay in places like valhalla and brigadoon your children have seen mildly debaucherous acts such as groping and intense petting and your ok with that I assume since ya stay there... so if your gonna lump one persons debauchery in with another, it should be ok for them to see both right? ...

Since it's all the same and allowing one type of debauchery in front of minors and barring another would be hypocritical aye?

Pardon the sarcasm and sardonic nature. It is to prove a point, that there are indeed acceptable levels of bad things and unnaceptable levels, and someone in the acceptable range should always have the ability to complain about the higher range without being called a hypocrite, because acceptable and unnaceptable are indeed two different things... and well... we all see our level of debauchery as acceptable, so ravers are definitely different.

[LadyElizabeth]

What showing boobs in public comes down to FOR ME, and this is a disclaimer of sorts, is the spirit in which it is done.  If it's a "girls gone wild" extremely sexualized, hooting and hollering sort of scenario, where women actually feel pressured to do it to be cool, then I'm TOTALLY against it!!!  If it's a free spirited, hippie sort of environment, where they are simply expressing their physical freedoms in a loving and fun way, I'm totally for it.  And the fire circle used to be the second example, now with the "show your boobs" van it is the 1st example.  That's just how I see it, and the people who own the van might be nice people, but they are not putting on a "nice" face!

[Sir Martin]

Ladies and Gents . . . I don't like to lock threads, but this one is pushing the limits of propriety.  I'm not calling anyone out or taking sides here, just providing a friendly reminder that these discussions must remain civil.  Disagreeing with other R/F members is fine ... personal insults will not be tolerated.  Let's keep it friendly, folks.

[ourevilone]

So just out of curiosity, could you prove this for me and get people to go stand on the side of the ride outside faire with all their feminine wiles hanging out and video tape it?
As for debauchery.... you don't agree to levels of such things? Debaucherous in ones private campgrounds is one thing... in wide open it's another. I mean, if it's not then your ok with your children getting to see people waving their happy parts at their faces and possibly using the swing that exists inside the camps you mentioned because I'm sure if you stay in places like valhalla and brigadoon your children have seen mildly debaucherous acts such as groping and intense petting and your ok with that I assume since ya stay there... so if your gonna lump one persons debauchery in with another, it should be ok for them to see both right? ...

Since it's all the same and allowing one type of debauchery in front of minors and barring another would be hypocritical aye?

Pardon the sarcasm and sardonic nature. It is to prove a point, that there are indeed acceptable levels of bad things and unnaceptable levels, and someone in the acceptable range should always have the ability to complain about the higher range without being called a hypocrite, because acceptable and unnaceptable are indeed two different things... and well... we all see our level of debauchery as acceptable, so ravers are definitely different.

Thank you so much, you cheered me up.

Ask a cop about the boobs. I'll walk around topless if you want. And it is about intent, nudity for sexual pleasure is illegal, nudity itself is not.

I didn't say you should have debauchery in front of children but the parents are responsible to keep their kids from things that would be offensive.

And the swing is mine so yes, my kids have seen it. If you spend much time near the swing you will notice that people don't actually get naked in it or have sex in it. Mostly it is children swinging and adults testing it out with their clothes on.

[Tanyor]

adults testing it out with their clothes on.
[/quote]

LOL..   And it is the parents responsibility to watch over make and example for their kids. And I admire you for that. But there's a few groups of kids who need some responsibility.
And I've meet a few groups in years past who were there just for the party, That were polite and were having a good time. and there are some which are going to ruin it for everyone.

I have no problem myself with the boobie sign. Or debauchery.

I have a problem with the Thugs.

[tinkerbell]

i truly find it interesting that one of the biggest complainers is a member of chaos...the one's who founds the naked slip and slide...which i am a proud participant of and as for (our) groups sex swing, everyone that gets in it is fully clothed...it's up for fun and kicks...all we really need is 2 maybe 3 more cops to help charlie out or a few rennies with fire and medical training (like my husband & I) for when things happen and we're close at hand...we have the cops on speed dial if things really get out of hand...other then that ticket checking at the gate will do just fine...& as for the rennies that bring mundane friends...keep an eye on them and keep them in check.

[Blue66669]

Hmmmmmm...................

I think a good shot of rum is in order here. We're all in agreement that some things should change. That's a good thing. At least we've got that going for us...

Now, where's that rum?

[PurpleDragon]

Just to clarify something here.  The Naked Slip & Slide was NOT sponsered by CHAOS, nor was it held in the CHAOS camp, it was created and sponsered by Camp Red Star which is NOT in any way shape or form affiliated with CHAOS.  Just wanted to clarify this one.

[Lord Dragonspyre]

Actually, it is illegal outside in a public place for a woman to be bare breasted.  Why do you think the ones in chain mail have something covering the breasts?  It is against the law for a woman's nipples to show in public.  Why do you think that all the women at any public venue (other than a strip club which is "private") where they hold things like fetish balls are required to have something covering their nipples.  They must maintain what is called being "Texas Legal". 

Sorry darling, you are not correct. Sexually oriented businesses fall under different rules than the rest of us so strip clubs and fetish balls fall under that. The chainmail girls only have to cover them because that is what George wants, not the law. He doesn't want to offend people with such things as nipples(the horror the horror) so it is a faire rule that they be covered, not law and that is off as soon as you leave gates and head to the campgrounds.

Okay, get a woman to go stand out on the side of the road barechested in Houston. I guarantee that she will be arrested, as it falls under the Indecent Exposure and Public Lewdness laws, insomuch that her barechestedness qualifies as sexual contact (meant to arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person), is reckless as to whether another is present who will be offended or alarmed, and is done in a public place.

Janet Jackson didn't get into trouble over her boobie boo boo because it is not illegal to show your breasts on a state level(or local level), local laws may differ(they don't here), but state wise, nipples have the right to see the light of day. That's why Galveston Mardi Gras is better than NOLA, you can flash without fear of going to jail.

She didn't get into trouble because she's a celebrity.

Celebrities get preferential treatment all the time.

Rebecca Gayheart ran over and killed a 9 year old boy and was convicted misdemeanor manslaughter (which indicates negligence on her part).

Andy Dick was arrested for possession of drugs and sexual battery on a 17 year old. He was released on $5000 bond.

Don't use celebrities as benchmarks of what happens in the legal system. They get special treatment.

Underaged nipples should never come out and play but that is the responsibility of the parent of that darling child. In case you were wondering, I have 3 teens, one of them female. They have all been to camp with me and all behaved because it takes a village and they have all of Valhalla, Brigadoon, and others keeping an eye on them. Would I like my underaged daughter showing her tits? No, but I am responsible to keep her from doing it(why do you think her faire name was Afelony?).

And I applaud you for how you have your kids behave. However, most of the kids that pull the crap out at the campgrounds don't have their parents with them. They're there with friends to have a place to party with no adult supervision.

If someone says their debauchery is fine but someone else's is not, they will always be called a hypocrite by me. Who gets to decide that they can corrupt someone but no one else can? Character, fantasy or real life... It just doesn't fly.

"Corrupting Impressionable Youths Since 1976" is a phrase coined by a friend of mine years ago to describe my pervertedness. Yes, I'm perverted. I agree with this statement and stand by it. Difference is, I know when to turn it off and be a regular person. Do I ACTUALLY corrupt impressionable youth? No. I do not give alcohol or tobacco to minors. I do not use or distribute drugs. I do not engage in lewd or debaucherous behavior with a woman if she's under the age of 18 (and I have asked for proof of age before). I do not pressure someone into doing something they don't want to. It's my standards that I live by.

These hooligans we refer to out the Fire Circle DO NOT CARE if the girl they are grabbing at or trying to get to expose herself is underage and/or unwilling. They want to see nudity. They want to cop a feel. THAT is irresponsible, wrong, and illegal. THAT is what I want to see gone.

I think the shooter for hooters thing is just fine, if you don't like it, don't go over there.

Now that I've had time to think about it, I myself do not have a real problem with the ShooterMobile. It's when you combine it with the asinine behavior at the Fire Circle that I start to have issues. If they were to move it away from the Fire Circle, that's fine. Keeping it where it is now simply (if you'll pardon the pun) tosses alcohol onto the fire. On the flip side, if the idiots at the Fire Circle were gone, I'd be perfectly happy with the ShooterMobile exactly where it's at.

[Tanyor]

naked slip in slide!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

I'll bring some rum blue. And I'm sure Teach will too.

Rum is fantastic isn't it Blue?