Painting Suggestion and Trim Ideas Please

[Sorcha]

Greetings all
I'm looking for some ideas on trim for a Margo's back lacing, split skirt dress.
I have some blue and gold tapestry fabric with matching diamond fabric for sleeves and forepart. 

I'm thinking of something similar to the BEAUTIFUL dress that Lady Elizabeth just posted in the Gallery of Finished Projects.  However I'm not going for quite that much.... A little more towards the finest of someone more middle classed.

I'd like to go with some sort of trim to frame the edges of the split but not as much as including guards...  But I'm having trouble finding something (Trim, braid, lace) that doesn't get lost in the details of the fabric and still matches the blue/cream/gold colors.

I've been looking through paintings (Thanks Operafantomet) but I haven't really found anything with a tapestry fabric and a split skirt.  Am I off base with this dress idea?

[DonaCatalina]

How about something like this http://www.cheeptrims.com/store/item.asp?Category=20&SubCategoryID=51&GroupID=&SKU=BKR%2D500643
1-34" wide should make a nice edging for the split. You could add beads if you like.
Or this one that is 2-1/4" wide. http://www.cheeptrims.com/store/item.asp?Category=20&SubCategoryID=51&GroupID=&SKU=BR%2D65%2D176

[TiaLD77]

Sorcha,

I'll freely admit I am a minimalist....but with as busy as these two fabrics are a fancy trim may make it to fussy?

myself I would go with plain strips of navy fabric maybe in a silk?...or is that what you meant by gaurds?

[Cilean]

Greetings all
I'm looking for some ideas on trim for a Margo's back lacing, split skirt dress.
I'd like to go with some sort of trim to frame the edges of the split but not as much as including guards...  But I'm having trouble finding something (Trim, braid, lace) that doesn't get lost in the details of the fabric and still matches the blue/cream/gold colors.

Hello,

Might I suggest silk taffeta, or dupioni  if you can't find taffeta in your area? With a small border of deep blue velvet to guard the bottom of the forepart. 
Please look at these links with swatch information:

This option mimics the checks of your sleeve fabric-
http://www.denverfabrics.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=PP671

This complements your colors of your gown
http://www.denverfabrics.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=PP069

As does this one
http://www.denverfabrics.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=X629

You have a small dot of red in your sleeve from what I can see so this would be smashing I think
http://www.denverfabrics.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=WW596

This one as well
http://www.denverfabrics.com/catalog_itemdetail.aspx?ItmID=K281

As for trim?
Here is one on eBay they have more yardage
http://cgi.ebay.com/NAVY-GOLD-FABRIC-TRIM_W0QQitemZ170271629662QQihZ007QQcategoryZ11803QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This one is lovely
http://cgi.ebay.com/Angels-Gold-Glittery-Trim-Lace-Fabric-Border-Curtain_W0QQitemZ200210123812QQihZ010QQcategoryZ116606QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247

Here are some trim that I tihought you could look
[urlhttp://www.mjtrim.com/Catalog/Product/66/27262/27262.aspx][/url]

http://www.mjtrim.com/Catalog/Product/79/00845/00845.aspx

Here is Calontir Trims search for gold:
=gold]http://www.calontirtrim.com/cgi-bin/dqryPublicOneColor.ASP?[Color1]=gold

I love cheaptrims, as you buy 15 to 25 yards at a time for 1 price, downside is that has a minimum order
http://www.cheeptrims.com/store/item.asp?Category=102&SubCategoryID=332&GroupID=&SKU=RJM-262013-C05C

http://www.cheeptrims.com/store/item.asp?Category=102&SubCategoryID=332&GroupID=&SKU=RJM-608208-C04C

http://www.cheeptrims.com/store/item.asp?Category=102&SubCategoryID=332&GroupID=&SKU=RJM-947001-C03C

http://www.cheeptrims.com/store/item.asp?Category=&SubCategoryID=&GroupID=&SKU=RJM-794406-C04

http://www.cheeptrims.com/store/item.asp?Category=102&SubCategoryID=332&GroupID=&SKU=RJM-794143-C02C

http://www.cheeptrims.com/store/item.asp?Category=102&SubCategoryID=333&GroupID=&SKU=RJM-608264-C05C

I hope this helps you, and did not make you even more confused! LOL

I really think the forepart, and you don't need much fabric with some pretty gimp or trim and pearls and bits would look smashing!  You could also accent your sleeves with garnets beads on the little dots I saw, it would be very pretty. Do look about in your area for Taffeta if you can get a shot gold/blue or gold/red fabric it would look really good and you can just edge the bottom in a guard of not more than 6 inches. There is really no need to have a guard larger than that, unless you don't have enough fabric to finish the gown. 

I do want to mention? There was no 'middle class' in the 16th Century, the merchants did not have titles but wore really expensive fabrics to dress to impress so they wore the best they could afford and they could afford a LOT.  Gentry would be people who might not have a lot of money, but have lineage and that is all that matters.  Even if their family were knights and way down on the ladder, they were still gentry.  Those wearing the gowns we look at in faires are Gentry.

Good Luck!
Cilean

[LadyElizabeth]

Let me just say that I adore your fabrics!!  I can totally picture your gown now. 

Personally, I'm not at all a minimalist, so the more the merrier for me... But I really like Cilean's idea of a silk/taffeta/duponi guard on the bottom of the underskirt.  If you do the sleeves with a poof at the top, then you could use that same material there and tie it in.  OR in the future, you could make a second set of sleeves out of the silk/taffeta/duponi material and have 2 sets of sleeves for the same underskirt...

You definetely need at leave 1 trim down the front and the one I was picturing is the one of the front of my sisters dress which looks just like the first trim link in DonaCatalina's post only in Gold.  But generally I think any trim in Gold that's at least 1.5" in width should look good.  If you are a tall woman though, I'd get a larger width trim.

[operafantomet]

I'm glad some of my photos/portraits was somewhat useful to you!

Have you seen this?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/roma/zuccari1550sfarneserom.jpg

It's Roman (assumedly - the artist was Roman based, and so was the family he painted for + partly depicted), from the 1550's, from one of the Farnese palazzi. The middle lady wears a pale dress with a pattern that reminds a lot of your sleeve fabric. That might not help you all that much, but I thought I should share it anyway...

This late Venetian dress shows a skirt split...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/temporary/por3.jpg
...but only the guard has brocade-ish pattern, so again: maybe not too helpful

But if you combine that look with:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/caldogno3.jpg
or
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/schooloftizian1570s.jpg
(which I would claim is quite plausible), you could have a snazzy dress! However... none of these options combines the brocade with the diamond-shape pattern... Do you have enough of one of them for the whole dress? Or do you prefer to combine them? I agree that they look lovely together.

Hmmm... this dress is often described as "provincial" in style, belonging to Veneto, but being a mixture of Veneto, Lombardy (all the bows) and Tuscan (main shape) in style:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/bergamo/MORETTO1540kopi.jpg
It has a split skirt. Maybe you could use one fabric for the dress, and one for the underskirt?

Of course, brocade combined with diamond-shape pattern makes me think of this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/ghirlandaio1486h.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/firenze1/tornabuoni1488a.jpg
But for some reason I assume that's a totally different style than what you're heading for?

As for trim, what about a plain blue or gold satin fabric, folded and "snipped" every other inch (or closer) to create a truly historical trim? You can see it rather well here:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v31/operafantomet/renaissanceportraits/?action=view&current=bron1530snips.jpg
It gives a nice finishing touch to a garb, but it's very discrete. Of course, it might be more work than you aimed for, but I like the look of it.

Hmmm. these are all Italian. That's mostly what I know when it comes to Renaissance fashion, at least considering details. I'm sure there many brilliant Tudor + Elizabethian, Spanish French, German and whatever outfits out there that would be good choices as well! Especially Tudor fashion has a proud tradition of patterned fabrics and split skirts. Best of luck!

[gem]

Well, I'm kind of with Operafan on the Italian gowns, but you asked for Tudor/Elizabethan, so:

http://www.marileecody.com/isabel.jpg
http://www.marileecody.com/audley.jpg
http://www.marileecody.com/unknown-lady.jpg
http://www.somegreymatter.com/streathamladyjaynegrey.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/Janegrey-CatherineParr_1545.jpg
This one isn't a painting; it's our own Molly Mishap, but it's still worth ogling.
http://tudorhistory.org/elizabeth/elizawhitehall.jpg

[isabelladangelo]

Elizabethans were NOT about minimalism.  The Italians were all about letting the fabric show off your wealth and not cluttering up the dress.  I'd think you'd be more happy with the Italian.

http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/wardrobe.htm

Just look through the link above to see what you'd like to make the dress look like.

[Kehle]

I'm really an amateur, and have no experience with noble garb, but for your blues I'd go with something in silver, but something with a little sparkle to it, because you don't want a rich dress with cheap trim and too simple might look cheap. I'm personally not a face of lace, but a braid would probably be nice. I say silver, cause I think white might be too bright and pop more, drawing the eye more to the trim and you want it to blend and accentuate, not overpower the dress.

Though my opinion doesn't come in historically accurate. I'm pure fantasy.

Your fabrics are lovely by the way and I'm sure your dress will be spectacular.

[operafantomet]

I saw this and immediately thought of you:



It's the same painter (Zucchari) as the very first one I posted in my last post, but this time it shows French fashion. The blue dress is rather yummy, AND with a front split skirt! 

[Sorcha]

May I just say that you ladies are the best!  Sooo many ideas!

**Swoon**

Oh I LOVE the blue one!!!
I want to tell her to scooch over a bit so I can see the tops of the sleeves.

I have been enamoured by this one for awhile, and it is on the "some day" list...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/Janegrey-CatherineParr_1545.jpg
I know where they keep the trim for bottom of the forepart already.
http://www.renaissanceribbons.com/view.php?id=285&cat=jacquard
Now I just need to find someone who sells this company's trim retail.  I do love all of their trim.

I looked again at my photo and it does look like there is red dots in the diamond fabric.  In real life, there are none.  Just blue and gold.
I've tried some samples of trim that has some metallic gold in it and it looks weird on this fabric. I think I need to stick with nonmetallic. And Kehle is right about white being too much of a contrast.

A guard on the bottom of the forepart may work best.  The gold silk taffeta idea sounds lovely.
So how about the gold guard at the bottom and the where the guard meets the other fabric this trim?:
http://www.renaissanceribbons.com/view.php?id=177&cat=
And then the same trim at the top of the bodice and top of sleeves as in the Zucchari blue dress???
Am I mixing my Tudor with my Italian too much?

Again I need to find someone who sells this company's trim retail.  I've tried ebay and found some of them, but of course not the one's I'm interested in.

I think I'm going to take trip to Joanns for a sample of gold taffeta to see how it looks. 
I'll let ya all know