17th Century Help

[Lady Rebecca]

I know this isn't Ren, but I also know some of you sew for other periods as well, and I need some help!

I picked up a few (huge) remnants today, and I think it's enough to make a gown out of. They're lovely shades of light blue brocade and taffeta, and I want to go for a late 1600s gown. I've sketched one out, and it's sort of a mix of Claire Dane's orange gown from Stage Beauty, and Kirsten Dunst's "blue tricorn gown" from Marie Antoinette. I'm pretty sure I can adjust a pattern out to what I want, but I don't know what sort of undergarments they wore then. Did they still use farthingales? I know it wasn't in pannier period yet. Besides the corset, what was there? I've googled, and it seems that the Restoration is largely skipped over.

PS. Since when did 5.5 yds equal a remnant? Not that I'm complaining, since I like $3.99/yd!

[operafantomet]

For this period you would also need a chemise of some sort, a shift. The ones I've seen has been narrower than what was worn in the Renaissance, and often also with shorter sleeves ending in lace "engageants". I know this is for the later Rococo fashion, but apart from the shape of the corset I think the general look is rather similar to what you're aiming for:

http://www.durantextiles.com/bildspel/pages/s4.htm

I haven't read anything about skirt supports for this late Baroque fashion, but I don't think a modest bumroll would be wrong. Correct me if I'm mistaken, though....

The site I've linked to above belongs to Laila Durán, a Norwegian woman living in Sweden. She's specialized in late baroque and general Rococo fashion, and also period correct textiles. Do check out her site to drool over wonderful fabrics and even more wonderful period outfits!

http://www.durantextiles.com/ ("Bilder/pictures" is especially recommended!)

[Lady Rebecca]

Thanks! I've got two more questions (for now)

1. The look I'm going for has buttons up the front. Is this part of a stomacher, with laces underneath, or do I need to get a corset, and then the bodice of the dress just closes snugly over the corset with the buttons?

2. I've been looking through a lot of portraits, and it seems like the skirt were given all sorts of different treatments at the top - a few have pleats in the front, with cartridge pleats in the back, some have cartridge pleats all around, and some are just gathered. I'm attaching a rather large peplum, so whatever I do won't actually be visible. I'd like the skirt to be versatile enough that I could also wear it with small panniers when I do my Rococo gown later down the road. Since the treatment isn't visible, should I go with that later style? I have exactly 6 yds of the taffeta, and I would like to be able to make as much as possible of the gown with it (I'm doing paned sleeves, so no worries there!) I also have 2 3/8 yds of the matching brocade, that I can do accents with if I run out of taffeta.

[flidais]

eeep!!!  I want!!!

that is a really cool site.....I'm feeling a day of wrong idea comming on......if I actually had time to make something like that.....hmmmmm......

[Aunty Lou]

What I've seen of undergarments of the period, she's right, a smallish bum roll, at the back, would hold the skirts out far enough.  (After James, before Anne, hmmm?)  A stiffish, taffeta petticoat, and the right shape corsetry, and the dress will look right.  What they did was to have a stomacher, a triangular piece of stiffened fabric, sometimes with that wooden busk inserted attached to the front edges of the dress with pins, ties, or ribbons.  This could have been made out of the same fabric as the dress, or a contrasting color, or embroidered the hell out of.  The stomachers seemed to have been saved long after the dresses were remade, cut down, made into rags... they are what can be seen in the museum collections. 
Oh!  and knots and knots of ribbons!  Virago sleeves!  Decolletage!  Lovelocks!  Lace aprons!  Fingerless mitts!  Parasols from the exotic East!  Excuse me, I have to go lie down now...

[Lady Rebecca]

Okay, so I'm putting off the gown until I've made myself a corset. I'm thinking of just making myself an 18th cent corset, since the shape was so similar. Ideally, I want to make one that can also be worn as an outer bodice. I found one that I would love to make from that duran textiles link, that looks like this, but I don't know how the stomacher works. Any ideas?

What I was thinking, is that one edge of the stomacher is permanently attached, and the other just slides back and forth depending on how tightly it's laced. Is that right? I can't really find any other examples of this type of bodice, but I need one that laces front and back, and this one looks so pretty!

[Aunty Lou]

the stomacher was a separate triangular thing, the shape of the front of the corset.  Sometimes there were tabs off to the side.  These tabs were then used to pin to the side fronts of the dress, worn over a corset (bodies).  It could have false lacings, or ribbons down each side, or be plain enough to be laced over.  Itwas large enough, and meant to be seen, and the dress side fronts were fairly narrow, never meeting in the center...

[Lady Rebecca]

Okay, I found a picture of the JP Ryan pattern pieces (http://www.marquise.de/de/1700/howto/frauen/18baleine_uebshi.gif) and I made a tiny model, then increased the pieces to be a pattern in my size.

I bought my fabric, but I have one question before I lay it out - does the grain of the fabric go in the same direction that the pieces of boning lay?

[Lady Rebecca]

Fully boned stays are such a pain! I worked for a few hours yesterday, and a few today, and all I have done is 1.5 (out of 9) panels done. And I'm a rather impatient person...

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Some examples through paintings of 17th Century Women's fashions...







Hope this gives you an idea of what you are going for. There is a lot to the Baroque fashions of the middle 1600's.

[Lady Rebecca]

I love the sleeves on that first one.

Here's a sketch of the one I'm planning to make: