Now what?!!!

[PrincessSara]

I am getting seriously tired of this project.

I'm trying to make some smocks and a corset.  This should be simple!!

I've made a fabric mockup of my corset and it barely even touches me.  I made a bristol board mockup as suggested by the pattern, which is a Reconstructing History pattern so they know historical costuming.  The bristol board mockup fit perfectly, but the fabric one doesn't even come close!!  And I already made it four inches smaller than my measurements.  I know this isn't the pattern's fault, it's something I've done wrong.  But I don't know what it was I did!

The other problem is that I don't have the time or energy to sew all the boning channels on the mockup - is there any other way to temporarily attach the boning?  I think this might be part of the problem.

Help?

[mollymishap]

OK, first: BREATHE!  It's ok, we've all been there & sometimes it just takes a few other extra pairs of eyes to see things differently & work out a solution.

Now then: do you have any pics?  It'll be alot easier to offer suggestions if we can see what the problem is.  Otherwise, I'm not sure what you mean by, "...it barely even touches me".

And yes, adding boning will cause your fabric to "shrink" if you will.

So before you do anything else, post some pics if you have them...drawings if you don't and let's see what we can come up with.

[PrincessSara]

I mean that the corset pretty much just hangs by the shoulder straps and hardly comes into contact with my body in a lot of places.  I just can't see how there could be suge a huge size discrepancy between the one mockup and the other.  I didn't make any changes, and I'm already using the size four inches smaller than my measurements.  The first mockup fit perfectly.

[Margaret]

I can't explain the huge size difference - but fabric will streatch where the bristol board will not.  That could be part of your issue.   

But yes, photos will help a bit too

[DonaCatalina]

It sounds to me like you might have duplicated one of the pieces.
I tag all my pieces while cutting because I've done exactly that in the past.
If that is what the problem is, you can take out the offending intruder.
Corsets are not that easy so don't be discouraged.
Just go back one step at a time and you may discover what went wrong.

[Kate XXXXXX]

Lay the corset out on the table and lay the card version on top.  This will quickly show where the extra inches are...

[PrincessSara]

I pulled this out again today and did a wee bit of modifying - sewed the side seams a bit better and sewed the straps on instead of just pinning them.  And I took off the boning for now.  I had my sister pin me in again and it was a bit big, so I cut an inch off each side of the back opening and tried it on again, and I think I'm nearly there.  I think I still need to take off a couple of inches at the waist, because the front panel is still sitting a bit loose.  And possibly make the armhole smaller in the front, because I have a little pucker on both sides at the underarm; also the tracts of land hang out the sides a wee bit.

I was looking at the boning placement and there were a few things I had issue with: firstly, I get a bit of squareitude in the bust, so I don't want to have the boning stop under the bust, because then the squareitude would show through the gown.  But I'm not sure about boning all the way up, because then I get served up and it's not really attractive on someone as large busted as I am.  Can I bone it partway up the bust, or would that give me A) a line across the bust, if the boning is very stiff B) a line of boning ends poking out the front, if the boning is more flexible?  What I'd like is a gentle curve up the front at a 45 degree angle to my chest, pushing the underside of the bust in a bit to get rid of the squareitude and give me a little lift and leaving the top of the bust free and rounded.  Is there a way to make that work?  Will the squareitude fix itself once the boning is in, even if it stops below the bust?  And if I do decide to just bone below the bust, where the heck do I make the curve - cause the pattern has predrawn curves for up to a D cup, but I'm a FF.

And lastly, I'm wondering if there's an easier way to do the boning than sew all the boning channels on the mockup, cause I only have two weeks left to do this.

[gem]

Ok, clearly I am not an expert on getting these things to fit; however, I certainly have vast experience in them NOT fitting properly!  I will say, I'm not entirely sure I know what you mean by "squaritude."

So.  Go read all the new responses to my "help fitting top of bodice" thread, because I think all of the information will be applicable to you, as well. FWIW, I'm a DD cup.  People posted lots of helpful diagrams, plus tips about boning, fitting, sizing, etc.

I mention in that thread that my corset from Castle Garden has a wide, V-shaped busk in the center (I'm assuming it's plexiglass), which goes all the way to the top of the bodice (thus, over the bust), and the rest of the boning stops in a curved pattern below the bust (Dorothea-bodies style).  I'm not sure why this is, exactly, but I'm guessing the folks at CG must have thought it gave the best combination of shape and support.  I'm thinking of experimenting with that.

Have you entered your measurements into the Corset Pattern Generator?  One of the data fields is for cup size, and it has an option for DDD and greater.  I printed off a version for DD and a version for DDD+, because I wanted to see how they compared and what the difference was (haven't done it yet).  You might try that--draw up a full-size pattern for DDD+ and compare it to the mockup you have.

Lastly, (although I would normally do anything in my power to steer a person away from Reconstructing History), you might try contacting Kass McGann.  Everything else aside, she does seem to really know her stuff, and since it's her pattern, she might be able to give you some guidance (if she's in the mood).

[mollymishap]

If by "squaritude" you mean "squished uniboob", then I think I understand what you're referring to...if not, then what I'm about to suggest may not apply.

I liked Mythrin's suggestion in Gem's thread about using a combination of rigid boning and more flexible stuff.  If you try that, I'd suggest alternating channels somehow vs. stopping in the middle of your bustline, because that might cause the boning to stick out and either wear the casing out too soon or create an unflattering line across your chest or both.

That being said, if you get some flimsy Rigilene type boning and use that all the way up, and then you double up underneath to part-way up your breast like you were thinking with some stronger cable ties (so that the Rigilene is what is taking the friction from the cable tie beneath) THEN you might not have the problems I mentioned above since the Rigilene will both take the stress and provide you with a smoother shape all the way up.

And I think a busk might work wonders for you (and it's less channels to sew, LOL!) no matter which option you go for.

OH, and as to the cup size, I'd suggest putting on the bra that fits you best under the bust and then putting on your mock-up over that & just tracing where the "curves" should go onto your mock-up.  I just can't see where commercial patterns are any good when it comes to such specific tailoring as is needed for a corset.  Use them as a guide, but that's about it.  I'm lucky in that I'm fairly small all around and even so, I had TONS of problems with getting a commercial pattern to work for me, which is why I ended up just creating my own.

Also, I don't see why you can't just use the mock-up as the base for your finished product.  Why not just cover it with the fashion fabric you were intending for it once you're happy with the fit?  You might have to fiddle a bit to get the layers to line up ok, but it might work for you.  Or maybe your mock-up isn't made from a breathable fabric?

[PrincessSara]

By squareitude I meant that my breasts are pushed flat in one spot, just outside the "middle" of them, and it forms a square shape of breast surrounded by the rest of my breast behaving normally.  I'll get a picture.

Molly, I don't think I can use it as the lining because it needs some fabric added in places where I cut it too much.  The Rigilene idea might work though, I'll have to play with that a bit.  The problem is that my bust ends up rather funny shaped when I wear the corset (I've already enumerated about my bust-fitting woes in the bliaut thread) and I can't imagine trying to fit a corset the same way I would fit a gown that is supposed to support me with fabric tension alone.  I couldn't make it work then and I don't think I could make it work now.  Anyway, when I gave myself a little "push" up just on the underside of the bust the shape was quite nice, and I'm trying to figure out how I can do that with boning so I don't have to walk around holding myself up all day .

EDIT:  Here's some pictures of me in the mockup, as well as an illustration of what I mean by squaritude.


Squareitude

[gem]

Ok, part of the problem is that your mockup fabric is too flimsy.  You really need a fitting version out of something like canvas (starting with muslin to get close to the right fit is good, but after that, you need to pull out the big guns, particularly if you have big... anyway, you get the point.).  Other than that, I think you're off to a really good start here.

[Kate XXXXXX]

And bones...  You can only go so far in fitting a corset without bones.  While the fabric gives you the SHAPE, the bones give the support.

[mollymishap]

OK, I see what you mean.  Here's my 2-cents' worth:

First, what Gem said.  You definitely need sturdier fabric for the mock-up, unless you were intending on using muslin for the finished product, which is just begging for trouble.  Flimsier fabrics will also tend to distort more, which might account for the problems you had with the sizing from the Bristol Board to the mockup.  That, and that now you've got the fabric on so tight that there's no space for the boning.  If you base your finished garment on that mock-up you might find that once it's boned, it's shrunk on you quite a bit.

In the meantime, though, I'd suggest letting OUT the bit of seam that's creating the pull where the side arrows are on this pic:



The side arrows being the ones that point to the divet closest to your armpits.

Then I'd move your straps out towards your pits about an inch or so until the edge of the strap meets the edge of your armscye.  I know, it's just a mock-up, but TRUST me, those little things matter.  moving the straps out will help to redistribute your girls and decrease the "squaritude", as well as taking up some of the gap in your armscye.

Also, I'd suggest clipping off at least an inch all the way around the bottom edge of your corset, which will help with the bunching I'm seing on your side.

Lastly, if you're getting really frustrated and you have more money than time, you could call around to someone who does alterations and see if they're willing to have you pay them to fit you properly.  Let me tell you that fitting myself is NEVER easy, and I often end up wasting a ton of fabrics on mock-ups that don't fit.  I can do it on someone else in a cinch, but transfering that to my own body is never easy.  

Good luck!

ETA:  You might also see who lives close to you that's on this forum.  I'd help fit you in a heartbeat, but I'm in Northern N. Hampshire.  I think Orphena lives in Ontario...you could try PMing her or someone else who might be closer by.

[gem]

moving the straps out will help to redistribute your girls, as well as taking up some of the gap in your armscye.

AAAHH!!  AAAHHH!!  OMG--I think I just learned something CRITICAL.  This is why it's important to read everyone else's posts, too!

[PrincessSara]

I did realize that the armscye was too big, and I mentioned in an earlier post that I was going to cut it smaller on the finished product.  I have noticed a difference based on where the straps are, so the armscye will be smaller.  Also, the fabric isn't muslin, it's 7oz linen canvas, which is what I'm using for the interlining layers of the corset.  I debated the differences between cotton duck and linen canvas and decided to use linen, because I found the duck much too stiff for what I was doing - where I have wrinkles now (which will be fixed with boning) I had buckling with the canvas.  And it just made me a bit too squished and square for this period.  Also, under a velvet Tudor gown, linen is going to breathe better than cotton and I have big big big big issues with heat so that's part of a health concern.  It isn't quite as tight as it looks, because it's overlapped and pinned at the back instead of laced, so it's actually at least an inch larger than it looks.  I will be adding lacing for better fit.  The other thing is that my bust doesn't naturally end up there, I've pulled it up and it's having to try and fit in around my underarm cleavage and all the other "bulk" that's already up there; on the finished corset I will probably leave it lower down, as that gives me less of a spilleth over.  My breasts are naturally set very low on the ribcage and close together on the chest, which causes uniboob with everything.

I just realized, I probably should have already said that I'm going for historical accuracy in silhouette, but less in construction materials because of time, budget, and the fact that although corsets aren't entirely documentable at this time period I rather need one to make me into the right shape.

Ok I have more to say but it's Father's Day and we're taking my dad out for dinner.

Mmkay, back.  I cut all my boning the other day but now I think I want to try boning all the way up, so I need to go to Home Depot and purchase some more cable ties before I do anything more.  I know I should put the boning in, even if I don't want to *sigh*.  I'm just so lazy!

I think the wrinkling around the waist is caused by lack of boning - the fabric is being pulled backward at the bottom because the side seams are a wee bit twisted.

As to letting out the side seams, I tried that and I still had problems with distortion.  I think my bust is just so big that it's going to fall out the bottom a bit no matter what I do.  It has to go somewhere, LOL.

So for now I'm going to get more boning and add it and mess with the armscye/straps and the length of the back.

[operafantomet]

This won't help on any fitting questions, but... If you're going for historical accuracy, your boobs SHOULD be squished and flattened...

[PrincessSara]

Mmkay, so here's the latest mockup.  I think the bust and the sizing turned out fine, and the final piece will be made of linen, so it will stretch a bit anyway.

But I've come across another problem, as you can see in the "side" pictures.  Because I have a tummy, the bottom of the front sticks out.  And since the back is short, there's nothing to pull it around.  I deliberately made the front longer and wider at the bottom because I'm making this corset to go under a gown I already have, which has a longer bodice than the corset pattern is intended for - if I were making the gown that this corset pattern is made to go under the waistline would be around my natural waist, but the gown I have has a waist about 4 inches below there.  There is a temporary busk in there right now (a thick wooden ruler) but it doesn't seem to help much.  Is there anything I can do about it?  I know lengthening the back would do it, but that would be a major overhaul.

[Kate XXXXXX]

Make the whole thing  longer.  I think it needs to be an inch higher under the arms and the bottom back edge need to be a couple of inches longer.  Front length and busk length are determined by how high the neck edge needs to be and how long a busk you can stand for comfort.  To determine this, sit down in it!

(So that you don't get bones digging in round the back and hips, consider making an effigy style corset with 'grown on' tabs.  The boning goes down through the waist into the tabs, which are all cut as one.)

How much boning is there in the back?  To help with the control, you may want to add more...  I'd certainly add some up the sides.

Remember: this IS the mock-up, or toile - it's there for ironing out all these issues.  Get it right now and you'll have a fantastic pattern for a perfect garment you can use over and over for both corsets and bodices to go over them.   

Without a curved Victorian style busk designed for going round our larger tummies, yes, the busk may always poke out a bit at the bottom.  That may help to determine it's length: stop at the point it leaves the tummy behind.

*Note for if you want historical accuracy:  Clothing of this period fitted far closer round the armscye than we usually see in modern woven fabric clothing.  They aimed for a fit closer to that of a fitted T shirt, in some respects.  Ease of movement was made by adding gussets to armpits, but the garments fitted closely under the arm.  Your corset needs to reflect this.  It will also help with the control and getting the flat line up the front.