Faire Garb

[Lady Renee Buchanan]

I am posting this to start what I think will be a lively discussion.  Not to demean anyone's choice of dress for faire.  It is not, and never meant to be, a personal attack on anybody (it's sad that I have to write this, but with the way the forum has become lately, it's better to put a disclaimer up front than for somebody to take it personally and have a hissy fit with hurt feelings).

OK - disclaimer is done!

When I go to faire, even though I realize none of my garb is H/A, and I don't care if it's not, I like to try to look nice.  Not in movie-star drop down dead pretty, but nice enough so that when people look at me, they don't say (to themselves), "What was she thinking?"

I see - and again, this is my opinion - a lot of people at different faires who have done something to themselves in some way, that they look frightful.  I don't mean this as a garb snark, not that their clothes are the "wrong" color, or  that they have a tall hat with the wrong kind of garb (I'm guilty!), but just stuff that makes them unattractive.

I can't specifically say what it is they do, I just know that when I see them, I think that they are a decent looking person underneath whatever they did to make themselves just plain ugly.  And I wonder why someone would do that.  Because I want to look nice and leave that thought in other peoples' minds, why would someone make themselves deliberately ugly?

[Margaret]

I hear what you are saying Renee, and I completely understand.

I think the issues stem from the people walking out of the house thinking they look fine.  Just fine.  Mostly due to their own ignorance or they dress that way in their civvies (we've all seen older women wearing stuff they bought in the junior section and should have left there.)

Take a front lacing bodice for example.  Part of the ignorance comes from the some of the vendors themselves.  "If you can breathe, it's not tight enough!!" gets said way too often, and women get sold items that are way too small.  Then they get told that they must hike their bosoms up as high as they can go because "that was what they did!!".  So now you have women walking around with the 'candle wick' issue.  The top of the bodice cutting into their bosom and the breast weeping over the top of it.  Painful looking and not attractive in the least.

I also think that people go to faires and want to 'dress up' as something and have some sort of idea in their head, but just don't know how to pull it off.  They grab a few things and say "good enough".  Only in the eyes of others, it's not.

Mostly I think it's the person in question.  I bet if you look in their closet, they have the same issues with their regular clothes.

[serenamoonsilver]

I think also you get some first timers who are trying to do garb but either can't/won't invest the money in it.  So they piece something together out of their closet and second hand store finds (usually in a very short amount of time).  We had a friend who came with us to faire this year and wanted to try his hand at garb.  He wore a white button up shirt, his work pants, black combat boots, and belt and sword he had bought on the internet.  He looked kinda odd, especially in the photos of him standing next to me and my husband in our professionally made garb.  He kinda realized it, lamenting that the doublet he had wanted to purchase was more than he could afford.  I offered to help him sew his garb this year, so hopefully he won't feel so put off by the cost of garb.

[LadyShadow]

I've seen sometimes the problem of first timers thinking that ok this what they wear and looks good.  And when they show up it is not so and cant afford to get better at faire or just dont want to.  But I also think it has to do with peoples thinking as well.  What we define as looking good, might not be what they think as looking good.  And I know I have been guilty of the "I dont care what others think, I'm wearing what I want no matter how it looks."  But I usually just do that in civvies and not in garb.  Another thing I have seen is the mix and match items.  Some times the matching part is so not there.

[Friar Rohn the Chronicler]

Hoooo boy..... you should see some of the garb down here in Oklahoma. I haven't posted the link yet but I've been posting the full size photos online for the cast members and playtrons to download. So far there looks to be around 8,500 photos and around 5,000 have already been posted.

Good example is what do you get when you cross Michael Jackson and Captain Crunch?

A Okie Pyrate.

Here's another example. The costume contests were decided by applause from the crowd on each weekend except for the finals. My nephew seen here won the childrens division. The other won in the Adult "WTF happened?" division.......



Friar Rohn

[Margaret]

See, that costume is not the kind of WTF stuff I would be personally talking about.  Obviously, it is more Halloween than Ren Faire, but it is well thought out, well exectuted and while it looks out of place - it's a pretty dang skippy outfit.

It makes you shake your head, but it doesn't make you go yuck.


Congrats to your nephew too, BTW.  He looks awesome!

[Lady Renee Buchanan]

I understand what all of you were saying, but I didn't mean it in the context of new people not having a clue as to garbing.  I thought of an example from a faire we went to a couple of years ago.  It was a medieval faire.  There were several women there, not just a couple here and there, who were not Twiggy-size - and I am not either, and do NOT mean to demean larger women.  I know there are larger women on this forum, another forum I belong to, and I see at faire who look awesomely beautiful in their garb, who wear it well, whether it be wench, pirate, or noble, etc.

Anyway, back to these women, who were patrons, not cast.  They wore medieval dresses, as opposed to bodices, skirts, chemises.  I think most of you know what I mean.  No bras, with the girls hanging down to their waists.  They wore biggins caps.  Now, my husband never says anything negative about anyone.  Never.  In all my years of marriage, he either says nice things or nothing at all.  When he saw these various women throughout the day - and they weren't a group who came together - he actually shuddered.  And said, "what were they thinking?" 

That is what I mean when I asked the question, "Why do people wear things that make them distinctly unattractive?"  I mean, how many people can actually get away with wearing a biggins cap and look really good?  And why would someone want to wear one (and they weren't H/A by any means) if it didn't make them look their best?  Things like that is what I mean.

But Friar Ron, when I saw your picture, that was another instance of me thinking, "I wouldn't want to walk around the faire all day with him."  And he's probably a really nice guy, I don't mean he's nuts, but in my eyes, he doesn't look attractive, which doesn't make it wrong, but why would somebody deliberately want to look like that?  That's what I don't understand.   

[Anna Iram]

Renee, how do you know someone out there hasn't had the thought of "what was she thinking" when meeting you. I'm not trying to be mean and not saying *I* think so, I'm just trying to make a point. Perhaps the ladies in question don't care to wear supportive undergarments. Perhaps the cap seemed an easy way to keep their hair off their neck on a hot day. Perhaps when they looked in the mirror they saw an idealized version and they were happy with that. I know I have on many occasions thrown something together, both at faire and in mundania and discovered later that I could have made a more flattering choice, but I had a heck of alot of fun. I know too I have taken great pains to be attractive and have just managed to be uncomfortable all day. No fun. I think everyone needs to stop looking at the surface appearance of others and see what's beneath. Were the ladies laughing and happy and full of joy at being at faire? Then to my mind their appearance was perfect.

[Lady Renee Buchanan]

Renee, how do you know someone out there hasn't had the thought of "what was she thinking" when meeting you. I'm not trying to be mean and not saying *I* think so, I'm just trying to make a point. Perhaps the ladies in question don't care to wear supportive undergarments. Perhaps the cap seemed an easy way to keep their hair off their neck on a hot day. Perhaps when they looked in the mirror they saw an idealized version and they were happy with that. I know I have on many occasions thrown something together, both at faire and in mundania and discovered later that I could have made a more flattering choice, but I had a heck of alot of fun. I know too I have taken great pains to be attractive and have just managed to be uncomfortable all day. No fun. I think everyone needs to stop looking at the surface appearance of others and see what's beneath. Were the ladies laughing and happy and full of joy at being at faire? Then to my mind their appearance was perfect.

Anna, I think you are missing my point.  I am not singling out these ladies or any specific people, it was just one example of many that we have seen at different faires.  It's really not a "what was she/he thinking" about the garb, it's more that most people I know make an attempt to dress in a manner to not get the stares and the "what was she/he thinking" about a presentation to the world in which they are not presenting themselves in a more positive light.

And if someone thinks "what was she thinking" when meeting me, it's not because I deliberately set out to wear garb that is, and maybe I should say "attention-getting" instead of unattractive.

And I was trying to keep this on a non-personal level, as I said in the first post on this thread.  So we don't hurt anybody's feelings, ok?

[dragongirl]

Hoooo boy..... you should see some of the garb down here in Oklahoma. I haven't posted the link yet but I've been posting the full size photos online for the cast members and playtrons to download. So far there looks to be around 8,500 photos and around 5,000 have already been posted.

Good example is what do you get when you cross Michael Jackson and Captain Crunch?

A Okie Pyrate.

Here's another example. The costume contests were decided by applause from the crowd on each weekend except for the finals. My nephew seen here won the childrens division. The other won in the Adult "WTF happened?" division.......



Friar Rohn

Ahhh.....he was modeling his World o Warcraft Character. 

[Anna Iram]

Renee, I apologise. I wasn't trying to get personal on you or say something snarky or whatever. I was saying we all try, I think, to appear attractiver to some group, but it may be folks from another group just don't relate. As for the ladies I was just trying to use your examples to discuss what you put forth.

I'll leave the topic for others to discuss.

[dragongirl]

We all have seen people like that at faire.  Now before I type this I want everyone to take a really good look at the picture on the left.  Ok, I attended Pennsic War for the first time last year.  Before I went I was little self-concious because I am fat.  Imagine my surprise when I got to war and the first day I was wandering around the Vendor Area I noticed a woman about my size wearing nothing but a Choli top, car wash slit pantaloons, sandals and a smile.  When I first saw her I was shocked and a little concerned, I was actually afraid that she was going to get sun posioning because she did have lovely pale skin.  After seeing her I noticed more and more very pale people of various sizes dressed similarly.  When I asked about it, because I thought we were trying for a more accurate look, I was informed, Oh, It's because it's hot.  Now why would you intentionally be non-H/A and courting skin cancer at the same time.  Especially when the SCA prides itself on being as H/A as possible and will "snark" on Fairewear?  

[Genievea Brookstone]

Never judge the book by the cover for you might just miss a good read.

[Lady Renee Buchanan]

No offense taken, Anna.  And to everyone else who posted, from what responses I'm reading, I don't think I worded the question correctly.  Because I don't mean it's about their garb per say.

What I mean is that when a person usually goes to work or to church or to the mall or to a party or anywhere, most people try for some degree of "looking decent" which, I understand means different things to different people.  And that's good, since we are not clones - boring!

So, if a woman - and I'm not being gender specific, I'm just relating it to what I know  - will wear undergarments, comb her hair, maybe wear makeup, maybe not, but I think you get my drift, why wouldn't this woman make the same attempt before going to faire?

Does this mean she's not as good as everyone else?  No, of course not.  Does this mean I wouldn't have any interaction with her if I stood next to her in line for food or sat next to her at a show?  No, of course not (by the way, I am a hugger!).

So, after reading this, if you still don't understand what I mean, maybe I just can't express it and we should end this thread, because I would never, ever hurt anybody's feelings intentionally.

And tomorrow, I'm going to Bristol and am gonna have fun!

[Lady L]

I had to wonder what a very large woman was thinking, when all she was wearing was a leather thong, which wasn't even visible under all the rolls.    (don't recall what she had on top)
I have seen large women who dressed very nicely, so I am not saying large people can not be attractive. As an artist, I see things differently than most people, I know that.

Maybe these people could use a ren makeover, then they would look amazing! (like "what not to wear" tv show) Maybe then they would see how good they could look, if they made an effort. Maybe they don't have the skills, or the know how to put things together, or what looks good on them? Maybe they don't care? However, now that *everyone* has cameras, camera phones and access to the internet, they could end up on youtube or a photo site, so you would think they would at least care a bit more because of that.