Following Orders

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

Just a little something I found....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMWJzYf-orc

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

Book review:

Barbara Frale's The Templars, was an interesting read. Much of the book is a retelling of the Order's history but with a different flare in my opinion. Some said it appears she has the gift of sensationalism, what ever it is, it made the key characters in various parts of the telling, come alive. It's an easy read, since it's only 200 pages.
In the final chapters, she comes to the telling of the trial. She shows that Pope Clement V found the Order innocent of heresy (heresy being a charge that had lasting, long term implications), but guilty of what could only be the equivalent of modern day hazing.
The rumors of bizarre kisses upon acceptance was portrayed as veterans testing newbies.
The act of denying Christ and spitting on the Cross, was another test of the sincerity of the initiate's conviction and resolve. Should he spit on the cross and deny Christ, then he was demonstrating that he'd conformed to the Order's Rule and subjugated his will to that of the Order and its' Master. This most likely followed with an assignment to European locals, where this apparent "skill" would serve him well in the courts and activities of the secular society.
If the Brother would not spit on the Cross or deny Christ, then he was for sure to have an assignment to the Outremer. This would probably explain the reason 200 plus Brothers failed to accept a life saving offer of conversion to Islam after the defeat at Hattin in 1187.
It appears that there was an internal power struggle between two key figures of the Order in its' final years. The cause being Master DeMolay was from the "East" and a warrior of experience in the Outremer, and a representative from the "west" with no time in the Holy Land, but vast experience in the non-combat related activities of the Order.
A solution was found, by having the Order governed geographically, with DeMolay running the Order in the East while his counterpart governed Order activities in the West in his absence.
Apparently the "West" cut a protective deal for their families with King Philip IV before the big round up.
During the trials, Pope Clement V was constantly trying regain the initiative on the whole episode over Philip's maneuvering. He had already found the Templars innocent of heresy, but was pushing for reform, with the idea of having the Hospitallers and Templars united into one new Order, that would be refocused in its' efforts.
Philip all the while was trying to insure he was the victor in this situation and wanted to dig up Clement's predecessor and put him on trial for a variety of charges (this wasn't unheard of, because it had been done before....a cadaver sitting in court, with an appointed "live representative" to speak on its' behalf). Clement, wishing to avoid this embarrassing event that would surely damage the church's reputation and put the French Monarchy on the same power level as the Holy See, decided it was better to sacrifice the Order of the Knights Templar, than lose the position of the Church. Let it be known that Clement was a Templar believer and thought that only a small few were responsible for the "hazings" in question.

So, like what Kirk and Spock talked about at the end of the Wrath of Khan, sometimes, "the needs of the Many outweigh the needs of the Few". The Templars went down doing what they did best, protecting pilgrims and the Church.

Deus vult!

[Sir William Marcus]

The Templars Revealed by Barbara Frale




I Just finished Barbara book last night, and I must agree with Frere Cliff that it is an interesting and easy read. Barbara's gift of sensationalism is an excellent way to describe her writing skills.

Now, straight talk with William Marcus

Philip IV.  As for what I got out of her book was a requaintance with Philip the fair and how much of a ruthless @#!!&*%$!%& he truly was,  unbelievable $%@&*% he was...  I can't help it, I hate this guy!



OK..next...






Jacques de Molay. What can I say other than total sadness for what this man had to deal with from the get go (Hugh de Perraud ring a bell?).  On a scale from 1-10 in total BS,  Jacques de Molay had to deal with an easy 15 from day one.

Then one cannot forget the endless torture and then the ultimate sacrifice he and Geoffrey de Charney made at the stake.  Even when they were absolved from their charges, and could have survived if they would agree to remain in custody of the church.  They of course refused to accept the terms proclaiming absolute innocence of ALL the charges brought against the Temple. Thats when Philip took it upon him self and had them burned at the stake on March 18th 1314.



Pope Clement V.  In Barbara's book my eyes were opened a little more to Clement V.  Most reads and historians portray Clement V as this puppet/closet friend of Philip the Fair.  When all along Clement V was all-n-all a very educated and a without a doubt a fair & honest pope who spent most of his time extremely aggravated & frustrated at Philip's antics.  I believe he did  try his best to save the order, and then when it came down to wire with the order or the church he had to decide and who could honestly blame his decision.  Even on his deathbed, Clement V could not forgive himself for the miserable end of the Templars.  He receives a overdue thumbs up from Mwa. 





Rituals & Rumors As frere Cliff mentioned: The rumors of bizarre kisses upon acceptance was portrayed as veterans testing newbies.
The act of denying Christ and spitting on the Cross, was another test of the sincerity of the initiate's conviction and resolve. Should he spit on the cross and deny Christ, then he was demonstrating that he'd conformed to the Order's Rule and subjugated his will to that of the Order and its' Master. This most likely followed with an assignment to European locals, where this apparent "skill" would serve him well in the courts and activities of the secular society.

Absolutely!

Besides, I can recall some pretty wacked out secret rituals back in the 80's that were conducted by rockbands & biker clubs that make the accusations against the Templars sound G rated!

Gotta Run!

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

Wonderful! I love your review! The Lady Danielle/LeFay was reading it over my shoulder and nearly showered me in coffee at your assessment of Philip IV! 


Picked this up at Barnes and Noble today! (A must for many's collection......you know who I'm talking about!  )

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/Crusader-Castles-in-the-Holy-Land_9781846033490

[Femme Falchion]

Enjoyed reading your thoughts on Frale's book. (Brother William gets bonus points for visuals and humorous tone  )  Great posts both...filled with interesting information.

I wonder how much Frale's presentation of Clement is influenced by her employers?

Am also interested in a sample of Frale's writing to see what her "gift of sensationalism" sounds like (and I'm surprised the Brothers don't find flaw in that). 

[Sir William Marcus]

Picked this up at Barnes and Noble today! (A must for many's collection......you know who I'm talking about!  )http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/Crusader-Castles-in-the-Holy-Land_9781846033490

Funny, because me and the princess made a journey to the mall today, and went exploring in the brand new Borders. I was scoping out the World History section when my princess brought that exact book to me "Here daddy..this is a book on knights Templars?"  True Story!

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

I wonder how much Frale's presentation of Clement is influenced by her employers?

Come now, since when has the Church leveraged influence to determine an outcome...? 

Am also interested in a sample of Frale's writing to see what her "gift of sensationalism" sounds like (and I'm surprised the Brothers don't find flaw in that). 

Seek out your nearest book provider! As for being suprised by our attitude towards her efforts.............Good Advertisement is hard to find! 

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

Funny, because me and the princess made a journey to the mall today, and went exploring in the brand new Borders. I was scoping out the World History section when my princess brought that exact book to me "Here daddy..this is a book on knights Templars?"  True Story!

*sniff....sniff* Makes me all teary inside. It's truly special when a father sees his Princess come to the light...

[Femme Falchion]

What you both fail to realize, is that, it is your young, gifted females that are really doing the leading.....

[Sir William Marcus]

  If Snuggies came in white I'm thinking I might buy one and slap a red fleece cross on it

[Femme Falchion]

It may be a sin, but I'd love to see that !   

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

[Lady Christina de Pond]

  If Snuggies came in white I'm thinking I might buy one and slap a red fleece cross on it

Rofl wonder if they can bleach one white just for you?

[Sir William Marcus]

Um..frere Cliff, is that a Huggie or a Snuggie on that infant?

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

Both.....see how big it is....