I need help-a couple of questions about a new project!

[LadySeasan]

Hello master seamstresses! lol
I have some questions and your advice is need

So here is what is going on. I am thinking of working on another gown-but I want it to be better than my last gown!  I love knowing that each time I sew it comes out better and better, I love learning new techniques.

I have the concept of a corset down, and made one to wear under my gown, and I am really proud of it, it is really sturdy

1-Making a bodice for the gown seems simple.  But what I want to know is how to make it stiff?  Boning seems obvious, but when I looked at and felt many different gowns this past weekend at the fair-there seemed to be different options in making them stiff.  One type I saw was boning, side by side, all around the bodice-sort of making it like a hard shell?  Is that the easiest way to go?  What do you do?

2-Pleating the skirt-I understand how cartridge pleating works.  doing the pleats then adding it to the waistband, then adding the waist band to the bodice.  but i apparently suck at cartridge pleating.  what are some other techniques used to put extra fabric into the waistband to get a full skirt?

3-is there a waist to fabric to skirt ratio used when trying to figure out the panels for the skirt?  typically how many panels (if any) are used in making a skirt for a gown? 

[isabelladangelo]

What I do:

I line all my bodices with a intralayer of canvas/duck cloth.  This helps the bodice keep it's shape and is fairly close to period practice (they used "glue stiffened fabric" or wool).  I only bone the front or back opening with cable ties.   The side lacing gowns I wear typically have no boning what so ever.   I'm not exactly small and the canvas really helps to keep everything where it should be.

For the skirt to a gown, I use about four or five yards of fabric.   I take the yardage, sew up the seam to about six or seven inches so I have an opening, and either knife or box pleat it to the bottom edge of the bodice.   I then sew the fabric to the bodice and close up the bodice with hand stitch, folding the lining over the raw edged of the outerlayer and the skirt, which are now sew together.

I hope that makes sense.   If not, I can probably take pictures to better explain what I do. 

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Lady Season...HUZZAH on taking on another gown project. It is always a goal to have the next one turn out better than the previous one.

For Bodices, I  underline with 2 layers of Cotton Canvas Duck. I do light boning  with heavy duty cable ties of 4 channels in front and back. That keeps the bodice from looking wrinkly. If the main fabric is on the lighter side, I underline that with a like weight Broadcloth, then a Broadcloth for the lining. I use Single fold wide bias tape for the armhole, waist, and neck areas before I add the lining. That makes for cleaner, finished edges.

The Tutorial on Cartridge Pleating that I drew up here in the Sewing Forum is very helpful. http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=8365.0 For full skirts of more than 5 yards wide, it works well.

Cutting a paneled gored skirt where the bottom is fuller like a fluted glass and narrower at the top works well for Knife pleating. Not so much bulk that way.  Skirts that are Knife or Cartridge pleated work better if they are separate from the Bodice. Though Cartridge pleated skirts can be sewn onto the Bodice, as  my Mary, Queen of Scots gown is.

Hope this helps you. I do suggest investing some money in some of the Patterns of Fashion books by the late Janet Arnold. They are worth their weight in gold and helpful to all levels of garb makers. There isd history and much worthwhile information on getting period sewing right.

[LadySeasan]

Thanks!  I will definitely line with 2 layers of canvas-and I love using the heavy duty ties.

I looked up the book you mentioned Lady K, and I am reading reviews of it right now. It does seem like a great treasure to have   I will persuade my husband to purchase it for me

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

You won't be sorry, Lady Season, of owning ANY of Janet Arnold's books. I have all of them because I do Period Clothing beyond the Tudor/Elizabethan periods.


Most everyone I know who makes Elizabethan Garb have most of Janet Arnold's books. The Patterns of Fashion book that focuses on the period of 1560 to 1620 IS the book  MOST RECOMMENDED !! The same goes for the one on Shirts, Chemises, Neck and Headwear. They are well illustrated, informative, most like a history book on clothing of that period. One does develope a deeper appreciation to how clothing was made then.

[LadyShadow]

Hhhmmm... I think I might have to look for said books.

[LadySeasan]

You won't be sorry, Lady Season, of owning ANY of Janet Arnold's books. I have all of them because I do Period Clothing beyond the Tudor/Elizabethan periods.


Most everyone I know who makes Elizabethan Garb have most of Janet Arnold's books. The Patterns of Fashion book that focuses on the period of 1560 to 1620 IS the book  MOST RECOMMENDED !! The same goes for the one on Shirts, Chemises, Neck and Headwear. They are well illustrated, informative, most like a history book on clothing of that period. One does develope a deeper appreciation to how clothing was made then.

So just to make sure, the books themselves have patterns with them? or descriptions of patterns. I found the book on Amazon.com for $26.99

[operafantomet]

You won't be sorry, Lady Season, of owning ANY of Janet Arnold's books. I have all of them because I do Period Clothing beyond the Tudor/Elizabethan periods.

Most everyone I know who makes Elizabethan Garb have most of Janet Arnold's books. The Patterns of Fashion book that focuses on the period of 1560 to 1620 IS the book  MOST RECOMMENDED !! The same goes for the one on Shirts, Chemises, Neck and Headwear. They are well illustrated, informative, most like a history book on clothing of that period. One does develope a deeper appreciation to how clothing was made then.

So just to make sure, the books themselves have patterns with them? or descriptions of patterns. I found the book on Amazon.com for $26.99

Yup, Janet Arnold's book series "Patterns of Fashion" all have patterns in them. What she did was to examine a given historical garb in detail, find similar garbs in paintings and period literature, and make exact patterns of the garb in question. That way you can make the garb, and also see possible ways it was used.

Usually the first 1/3 of the PoF books consists of various info and period pictures, while the remaining 2/3 has the patterns.

The 1560-1620 PoF is amazing, as it contains actual Renaissance and Baroque clothing. For a person not making Tudor and Elizabethan outfits it's refreshing to see other styles being represented too. The very blue "Peacock" dress I'm working on now has it's pattern from this book, being based on the dress Eleonora di Toledo was buried in in Pisa/Florence in 1562. Although I still quarrel with the skirt, the overall pattern was nice to work with.

The newest book in the series is the one with underwear, collars etc. Janet Arnold died some years ago, but this book is largely based on her work. The underwear and stuff described makes me drool, and this is the only PoF book that has nice, big,, glossy colour pictures. I'm positive it'll make you drool too!

[LadySeasan]

Well my thing is I barely use patterns and I am horrible with it, lol.  The last piece I made from a pattern was Simplicity 4059 view B-it came out pretty good, but some parts were very frustrating. 

My mother owes me a birthday gift-perhaps I will tell her to buy this for me!

[Butch]

I also use box pleating for the skirts, since (at least for me) cartridge pleating must be done by hand, and box pleating can be done by machine.

I also use cable ties for boning.  Next time I use them, however, I will try rounding the cut ends in a flame (I read that elsewhere on the board).

[LadySeasan]

Ok so you have

-the outer layer
-2 canvas layers
-and the lining layer

should i add interfacing between something to make it even more sturdy. like i said-some of the gowns i felt, were like a hard shell!

[operafantomet]

Ok so you have

-the outer layer
-2 canvas layers
-and the lining layer

should i add interfacing between something to make it even more sturdy. like i said-some of the gowns i felt, were like a hard shell!

I'm guessing the "shell" feeling comes from them being boned, as that makes the bodices stiff even when not worn. I usually bone the bodice of my dresses, because I mostly do Italian garbs, where corsets came into use much later than other countries. Instead the actual bodice was boned - for nobility it included felt, cardboard and sturdy lining fabrics.

I'm starting a period cardboard boning project later this autumn. I've bought a special kind of cardboard - not a regular paper one, but one with fibres of cotton. Hopefully it'll keep the shape even if it absorbs a bit moist. Must do some tests before I make the bodice...

But anyway, my bodice consists of the outer fabric, sometimes interlining, and then two layers of solid cotton where long vertical seams make "pockets" for the boning (usually the stiffer rigilene, sometimes softer hemp cording).

[Tixi]

I use Single fold wide bias tape for the armhole, waist, and neck areas before I add the lining. That makes for cleaner, finished edges.

Lady Kathleen - What layers are you binding - everything but the lining? And then you just fold the lining under and hand sew it to the binding? or do you fold it under and attach it to the interlining?  If it's the latter, then my next question is: why do you choose not bind all of the layers?

I'm struggling with this now.  I hate turning bodices inside out (epic fail) and I'm starting an Elizabethan bodice. I've been making early Tudor gowns where there is a skirt and sleeves attached and you don't have to worry about all of this.

In Margo Anderson's pattern manual for The Elizabethan Lady's Wardrobe, she details a similar method, and I've been reading and re-reading it so I don't screw up my fabric.  It's often hard to take someone's pre-written description of how to do something and turn it into reality!

thanks =)

[Tixi]

Well my thing is I barely use patterns and I am horrible with it, lol.  The last piece I made from a pattern was Simplicity 4059 view B-it came out pretty good, but some parts were very frustrating. 

Some patterns are better than others - The Big 3 patterns tend to want you to sew everything together and turn things inside out a lot and don't use period techniques. They don't include very detailed instructions, and the ones they do have are sometimes vague. I haven't had much luck with any of them, either - the exception being Simplicity 2589 which is pretty darn good (though it still has you turning certain things inside out, but much less-so)

The instructions with the Margo Anderson pattern collections (http://www.margospatterns.com/Products/ElizWrdrb.html or http://www.margospatterns.com/Products/ElizWorkWmn.html) and the Tudor Tailor patterns are much much better, but both are expennnnnnsive. You tend to get what you pay for, though.

[LadySeasan]

Ok so you have

-the outer layer
-2 canvas layers
-and the lining layer

should i add interfacing between something to make it even more sturdy. like i said-some of the gowns i felt, were like a hard shell!

I'm guessing the "shell" feeling comes from them being boned, as that makes the bodices stiff even when not worn. I usually bone the bodice of my dresses, because I mostly do Italian garbs, where corsets came into use much later than other countries. Instead the actual bodice was boned - for nobility it included felt, cardboard and sturdy lining fabrics.

I'm starting a period cardboard boning project later this autumn. I've bought a special kind of cardboard - not a regular paper one, but one with fibres of cotton. Hopefully it'll keep the shape even if it absorbs a bit moist. Must do some tests before I make the bodice...

But anyway, my bodice consists of the outer fabric, sometimes interlining, and then two layers of solid cotton where long vertical seams make "pockets" for the boning (usually the stiffer rigilene, sometimes softer hemp cording).

now, do you bone the entire thing all the way around?