Race/ethnicity at Faire.

[Finnian]

I didn't see a thread on this, but after I made my previous post, about my step father wanting to start making garb for himself...I became curious. I'm white, with a russian/polish/scottish/everything but Irish background, and my stepfather is Mexican and native American (not sure of the tribe though). He has a very dark complexion.

At the faire(s) that you attend, how is the race ratio?

I live in south Florida, and the population is extremely mixed, especially the area I live in. Yet at faire, I would say it's predominantly Caucasian audience/attendees/performers from what I've seen. I hate to sound "stupid", but why do you think that is?? Or is it different at the faires you all attend? I just figured if my local area is such a mixed population, how come the group that attends faire isn't more mixed?

[Blue66669]

AHOOOOHOOOHOOOO! This is a topic that I could go on for HOURS about!

I'm mixed with black and white (half-rican american if you will, I'll even accept "incog-negro"). I think I know a TOTAL of 5 black people that go to faire. There's a couple here and there, sprinkled about. We get a decent mix of people that are patrons, but as far as Playtrons and Rennies go, it's mostly white. I have MAAAANY theories on this, and have been known to go on for ages and ages discussing the reasons why my fellow black people don't really get INTO faire.

As someone on the inside of the "ethnic curve", usually, it's not culturally acceptable to do these sorts of things. Acceptable past times, stereotypically of course, DO NOT include exploring the Middle Ages/Renaissance in a costume. If you'd like me to go more into it, I most certainly will. I've found  that the black people that I know from faire PERSONALLY are not the stereotype. Most enjoy a different music, a different peer group, and a different way of life that is COMPLETELY different than what I've seen from the "other half". I'm trying hard to be PC about this, but I have a feeling that it may not stay that way. Just know that I believe that there's nothing against pointing out differences in who we are and what we do as a people. And a stereotype is only that if it's applied to the whole, without question.


Where is Lady Seasan??? She should chime in on this one!

[bran_gray]

The faires I've attended are mostly caucasian as well.  To the reason behind this I have no idea.

Just makes Sholo the Nubian stand out all the more to me.

I wouldn't mind seeing a little more diversity personally 

[Anna Iram]

Yeah...I'd guess most of us who do this for fun don't want to look too deeply into what the relationships really were between Europeans and Africans, Mexicans, Indians...etc. etc. back then....and I'd guess it would be hard to find a character that fits in and that is also historically accurate, and that isn't abused. Huzzah for what faire has become, a kinder gentler view of history where everybody get's along and I love it when someone brings the unexpected in as a character.

[Sweet Mike]

If I were African American, I'd go as a Moor and carry a terrifying scimitar.  That would be awesome.

[Finnian]

I will say personally, that I have a number of friends who aren't "white" that like the faire, dress up not necessarily historically accurate, but for fun, and I just find it odd locally since we have such a big crowd of "alternative/goth/punk/emo/etc" people, who aren't white.

And I know in some areas its taught that it's not "ok" to do any sort of past time that may involved costuming, aka: I've been to conventions before, and have been able to count like 4 non-white people in the whole event.

I will say this also, even though I'm white, I wasn't really raised by people who encouraged me dressing up or looking "foolish" in public spaces, as a matter of fact my mum STILL hates how I dress in public, but I still got myself interested in faire, even though I surely didn't think it was something I'd ever be able to do when I was younger, and I have basically no friends offline who participate either to influence me.

And I surely know if we are going for historically accurate at faire, other races attending would have...well...maybe not the most fun roles, but since a lot of faires allow anything as long as it's fun and not naked, I find it odd people don't get more involved...

Maybe a research study is in order!

[Auryn]

Great topic.
Personally I am half Argentinian and half Italian- but I look totally "white".

Finnian, I have made that same observation of our faire before.

I really couldn't tell you why the discrepancy.

Anna, I do see that point, however I think people also forget that there was a lot of trade between Europe and the Middle East back then so its totally historically accurate that there were respected wealthy merchants of other ethnicity.

(half-rican american if you will, I'll even accept "incog-negro")

- blue that is awesome hehehe.

I think that a lot of it has to do with the fact that even if you go to faire historically accurate, you are still indulging in a fantasy world.
The fantasy genre in general, whether it be literature, film or tv has a narrow pool of people from the general population to pull from.  This might sound weird but in my experience, at least in the latin community "fantasy" anything is pretty much disregarded. Its tolerated as a kid thing but as an adult you really should grow out of it. Also peer pressure and what other people think of you is really important and so even if someone is kind of into it, they would never admit to it or publicly display it because they would be ridiculed by their peers at nauseum.
Like I said, at least that is my experience.

[will paisley]

I think that a lot of it has to do with the fact that even if you go to faire historically accurate, you are still indulging in a fantasy world.
The fantasy genre in general, whether it be literature, film or tv has a narrow pool of people from the general population to pull from.  This might sound weird but in my experience, at least in the latin community "fantasy" anything is pretty much disregarded. Its tolerated as a kid thing but as an adult you really should grow out of it. Also peer pressure and what other people think of you is really important and so even if someone is kind of into it, they would never admit to it or publicly display it because they would be ridiculed by their peers at nauseum.
Like I said, at least that is my experience.

Only bit I have to add relates to this, in that another subculture having a tremendous overlap with rennies, namely science fiction fans, exhibits a similar skewed race ratio, and in that case, there is no "historically accurate" restriction/limitation. 

[SirRichardBear]

My personal opinion is that many in the minority community just don't think the middle age renaissance period applies to the them. Maybe because in the past hollywood never showed minorities in their period movies. However if you read Shakespeare you find many of his characters would fit what today we call minority community. Personally I'd love to see more mix of ethnically characters at faire loved a few season ago at Scarby to see an entire family dressed in Greece national dress.

I'm originally from the coal fields of PA and anything fantasy or science fiction was deeply suspect.  While they have a faire near my old home town very few of the locals would ever consider dressing for it.  In fact my own family were scandalized when I dress to attend it a couple of years ago.  I was told such was not none.

[Anna Iram]

Yes, there was a huge fascination with the Moors in the times, or so I've read. I don't really know much of their history.

True Auryn. The politics and economics of the time were much more involved than might seem on the surface. Certainly Western Europeans were not the only ones dealing in the slave trade, or in subjugating other countries. Seems to be a thing people like to do to one another.

Most likely you all are right and it's more that dresing up and playing is a kind of a nerdy thing to do.  


*edited...western was the portion of Europe I meant to cite, though human nature being what it is I imagine eastern Europe had it's hand in the slave trade as well, at some point in history*

[Dinobabe]

I may be out there in this theory but in Memphis we have a science and history museum that is a million years old.  It was a white's only museum.  Now, of course, anyone can go.  But you will be hard pressed to find the black community visiting the museum unless it is a school trip. 

A Civil War reenactment will rarely see minorities, especially blacks, and especially in the south.  I am always surprised and quite pleased when I see "non-whites" at reenactments.

Historically minorities have always been oppressed.  Maybe since the Ren Faire is history it is associated with this oppression.  It seems to me that most of Memphis runs on this oppression association. It may also be a lack of proper education.  Something prevalent here in Memphis.  My view may be narrow, I am relating to my environment.  Just a thought.

[Finnian]

Dino I agree that that is also a great posibility. I mean, I was raised Jewish, but I dunno that I would run out to a WWII re-enactment/event. But maybe that's because of all the skinheads and neo-nazi's I see around here.

[Zardoz]

I think that a lot of it has to do with the fact that even if you go to faire historically accurate, you are still indulging in a fantasy world.
The fantasy genre in general, whether it be literature, film or tv has a narrow pool of people from the general population to pull from.  This might sound weird but in my experience, at least in the latin community "fantasy" anything is pretty much disregarded. Its tolerated as a kid thing but as an adult you really should grow out of it. Also peer pressure and what other people think of you is really important and so even if someone is kind of into it, they would never admit to it or publicly display it because they would be ridiculed by their peers at nauseum.
Like I said, at least that is my experience.

Only bit I have to add relates to this, in that another subculture having a tremendous overlap with rennies, namely science fiction fans, exhibits a similar skewed race ratio, and in that case, there is no "historically accurate" restriction/limitation. 

I'll chime in to say that I see very few black people at science fiction conventions as well. I'm not sure why, because they are pretty well represented in the genre, both as characters and creators.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0VZj-85E5o

[temper]

I'm happy to say I see the faires getting more and more mixed and we show off sword manuals that feature Jews, black Europeans and female sword practitioners.  I think it's a case of education and catching people. How many English teachers point out that Alexandre Dumas was half Afro-Caribbean Creole?  Or that plenty of rich African merchants were not lily-white? Frustrating but not insurmountable! Admittedly the northern faires are more mixed but I have been seeing Zorro and a number of Samurai down South.  Recruiting for our own group to have diversity has been hard, admittedly.

[Lady Nicolette]

I have to say that back at the original Pleasure Faire, one of the most unforgettable characters was a Moor who rode his horse around the peripheries of the Faire as a guard.  He had dreadlocks, which I'd never seen before (this was in the early 70's).  In general, however, I also have noticed a lack of diversity at Faires over the years, but this seems to be changing, all for the good in my opinion.

I would like to add that it also takes disposable income to attend Faire....Sadly, even though there are many poor Caucasians, there is still a deeper rift for people of other ethnic makeup in the financial department in our country...Another thing that keeps getting better, but it's still there.