Groups fight abortion for 11-year-old Romanian Girl, who was raped by her uncle,

[Luciana]

Groups fight abortion for 11-year-old Romanian Girl, who was raped by her uncle, seeks to travel to U.K. for procedure


BUCHAREST, Romania - Twenty church groups on Thursday urged a government committee not to allow an 11-year-old girl who was raped by her uncle go to Britain for an abortion.

The anti-abortion Christian Orthodox groups also threatened to press charges if the girl were allowed to have a termination in Romania on exceptional grounds.

Their position was in contrast to the official stand of the Romanian Orthodox Church, which said the decision should be left to the girl's family.

A government committee is to decide on Friday whether the girl can go to Britain for an abortion or must continue the pregnancy. A Romanian living in Britain has offered to meet the costs.

The girl's pregnancy only became known earlier this month when her parents took her to a doctor because she appeared unwell. She told doctors she had been raped by her 19-year-old uncle, who has since disappeared.

She is now 20 weeks pregnant. The legal limit for abortions in Romania is 14 weeks. Abortions can be carried out later only to save the life of the mother.

In Britain an abortion is legal up to 24 weeks if two doctors decide that the risk to a woman's physical or mental health will be greater if she continues with the pregnancy than if she ends it.

The case has bitterly split the medical community, child rights groups and the public.

Split within church
In a statement, the church groups offered "material, spiritual and psychological help" to the child's impoverished family, adding they would also rear the child in a church institution if the family was unable to care for it.

But splits were apparent even within the church.

Constantin Stoica, spokesman for the Romanian Orthodox Church, to which more than 80 percent of Romanians belong, said Wednesday it was "an exceptional situation which must be treated in an exceptional manner and the family is the only one to take this decision."

He said the church considers abortion a crime, but this belief applies to normal circumstances and not to incest or rape.

The National Child Protection Authority has said the girl should be allowed to have an abortion because she is already traumatized by the experience of rape and pregnancy.

The National Doctors Council, however, said that the rights of the fetus should be considered and the pregnancy should go ahead. They argued that abortion laws should not be liberalized further.

[Trillium]

Well, I'm pro-choice anyway...
This poor child has been put thru so much already, and to try to deny her the choice to terminate a pregnancy caused by incestuous rape is downright horrible.  What kind of life would her or the child have?

[Luciana]

I agree with you Trillium. She is a child herself, becoming pregnant under such terrible circumstances. Even from a medical point of view ... I think that child's child may have problems.

[Cobaltblu]

Each country has the right to enact its own laws and determine what limits to place on abortions.

I have a hard time deciding what is right in this case since I am pro-life however I sympathize with the poor girl who was raped.

I decided I was pro-life through a very logical thought process.

First off I do not agree with killing a person (a human life) merely because a mother no longer wishes to have the child.  I don't think anyone would argue that an abortion is acceptable if we can prove without a doubt that the child is "alive" because at that point killing it would be murder.

Doctors cause women to give birth up to a few weeks early on a regular basis and the children born are obviously alive.

Women give birth to premature babies all the time several weeks and even one or two months early and the babies are obviously alive.

Babies are born prematurely many times who are only able to live for several months or days outside the mother before dieing.  However after they were born they were obviously living human beings.

There is no magic which occurs when the physical location of a baby changes from inside the mother to outside the mother...to magically imbue life and turn it into a living human being.

Any mother can tell of feeling a baby move and kick while she was pregnant and that wouldn't happen if the baby was not a living human being.

Therefor life begins (at the latest) at some time prior to 9 months.  Some people say it begins at conception however that is not as simply proved.

When exactly does a mass of cells turn into a living human being?  Who knows.  However we know life begins at least at 6 months or so of pregnancy with the above logic.  Life undoubtedly begins sometime earlier after conception.

So the question is simple.  If a person truly believes that life is sacred and that killing a living human being is murder then there has to be a legal limit on when a woman can have an abortion.

Legal limits and legal responsibilities are placed on members of society all the time and it is perfectly reasonable to require a woman to have a baby if she is more than a certain number of weeks pregnant.

If the baby is alive then the life of the baby is more important than any desire of the woman to not have the child.  That certainly is reasonable.  Now if a doctor has to choose between the life of the mother and that of the child obviously the life of the mother should take precedence.

Women certainly should have a right to decide whether or not to be pregnant and have access to birth control.  However if a woman waits 5 or 6 months until a living human being is inside her I don't think she should be able to kill it because she decided not to have a child.  In this case the girl certainly had no choice to get pregnant and maybe didn't even know what was going on with her pregnancy but the situation is the same...5 or 6 months of pregnancy.

So back to the 20 week pregnant 11 year old girl.  20 weeks is 5 months and I am not a doctor and have never been pregnant but I bet at 5 months a baby can kick and move around and if that is the case it is certainly alive.  From the first post apparently England has a 24 month limit which is set at 6 months (and I know from my ex-wife's own pregnancy my son was definitely moving around at 6 months and was certainly alive).

This is a tough case and I feel for this poor girl who was raped and made pregnant by a relative.  On one hand her life will be affected by having a child especially since it was conceived through an act of violence against her...on the other hand at 20 weeks her child is likely alive and will be killed if she has an abortion.  Who knows maybe if she has the child she will be glad she didn't kill it?

Which is more important:  the choice of the girl and her parents?  or the life of the child who is likely alive at this point?  Personally I say the life of the child is more important.  I realize having a child may have many negative consequences in the girl's life however an abortion ends the life of a child.

Regards,

CB

[Whistler Fred]

Boy, this is a tough call for me.

I'm generally pro-life, at least when the unborn's heart starts beating independently (I personally don't have an issue with 'morning after' pills and the like) or unless there are extreme corcumstances.  And I have a grandson who was born five month premature and is now a happy and healthy three-year-old, so it's hard for me to buy that a 20 week old fetus is not yet a viable human being.

But this is an extreme case, and I wonder just how safe it is for an 11 year old, under these tramatic circumstances, to give birth.  I'm more inclined in this instance to side with the Romanian Church and the family. 

And I hope that the uncle who raped her is held accountable for his deed.

[Capt Gabriela Fullpepper]

It is a tough call and being that it is in another country it makes it more so.

I feel for this young girl to have been raped by a family member and then to have to carry that child when it was NOT her choice or doing. If she did the duty with someone on her own free will, I would say Tough luck. Being that it is rape, I think it is her choice.

There are instances where you have no choice. I can speak from experience on this. When it is for the betterment of everyone, sometimes abortian is the answer.

There are those who are Pro-Life who say it is wrong to take the life of an un-born child, but then they rush out and kill someone who has a life and many friends and family that love them just because of that person they killed beliefs or job.

For me, I think the young girl should have the right to do what is right for her since SHE didn't ASK or have a choice in this matter as far as we know. With her being in another country she must do as the Romans

Just my thoughts.

[theChuck]

a nod to trillium and luciana. even if i was anti-abortion (which i'm not, i'm pro-choice) i would still think that there shouldn't be any debate about things like this. let the kid get her abortion and get out of the way.

[Lady Mikayla of Phoenicia]

Sometimes these spirits are best returned to their higher maker so they will be protected and safe until the right, loving circumstances occur to bring it forth to this world.

[Noble Dreg]

I wonder what the physical dangers are in an 11 year old giving birth...in Romania.  Can't be good. 

Since we brought abortion to the R/F community how 'bout another topic...the Death Penalty.  I say shoot the uncle, worthless piece he is.  Wonder what, if any punishment he will receive?

[jinx]

There are a lot of sides to this.  Personally, I am pro-choice, which, as many know, doesn't mean I am pro-abortion.  It simply means that I support a woman's right to decide what is best, with the help of her doctors.  I don't support people getting abortions "just because they don't want a baby," but for extreme cases, that needs to be a choice made by the people involved.

This is, obviously, an extreme case.  The girl is only eleven years old.  Eleven.  D'you remember being eleven?  Whichever decision is made, there will be some SERIOUS emotional repercussions, not to mention medical.   Regardless of how early a girl develops, her mind and body simply aren't -ready- to have a child at eleven years of age, even if it is physically possible for her to get pregnant.  Either decision will effect her for the rest of her life, as will the rape.  This girl may never trust again.  Then, you think of the baby in this case.  Whether the baby is given up for adoption, raised by the girls parents, or raised knowing that the girl is his/her mother, at some point in his/her life, it's quite possible s/he will find out the circumstances behind his/her birth.  Can you imagine the mental/emotional issues that would arise from that?

At the -very- least, she needs to be seen by a doctor outside of Romania.  Not because Romanian doctors are not skilled, but because she needs someone that will give her both options, and explain the repercussions of them on physical and emotional levels.  The ultimate decision needs to be made by the girl and, due to her young age, her family.

[theChuck]

CNN just posted an update on this:

A Romanian government committee has decided to allow a pregnant 11-year-old who was raped by her teenage uncle to have an abortion, a government spokesman said Friday.

The girl is 21 weeks pregnant -- too far along to have an abortion in Romania, where the limit is 14 weeks unless the pregnancy poses problems for the mother's health, said the spokesman, who asked not to be named.

The girl's parents had said they would take their daughter to Britain for an abortion if the committee did not allow her to have one in Romania. Abortions are legal in Britain up to 24 weeks.

It was unclear whether the parents would still take the girl to Britain following the committee's decision, reached late Thursday.

Church groups have opposed an abortion for the girl, the government spokesman said. The Romanian Orthodox Church has urged the girl to keep the baby, and has said it will take care of the baby if the family wants to give it up for adoption, he said.

The uncle who raped the girl has since disappeared, the Romanian Health Ministry said. Media reports say the uncle is age 19.

so there you go. the uncle ran away.

[Lady Mikayla of Phoenicia]

Man up.  Karma is a boomerang.

[Arsinoe Selene]

Ooo, that is a very sticky situation for the girl (and her family) to be in.

On one hand, she is 11. It must pose a health risk to both her and the unborn child. Plus, it's rape, and incestous at that. And I guess they wouldn't have even thought of a pregnancy test if she started missing periods, 11 she could have barely started, and they can be pretty erratic that early.

On the other hand, she does live in a different country. I was not raised there, I do not know their customs and beliefs, that is not my background. It is very hard to make a judgement call, because I am coming from a US point of view.

So, I would say I would support her and her family's choice. I am in no place to judge.

Oh, and on the death penalty thing, shoot the bugger. @$$. Child molesters, abusers (spouse, child, whatever), and animal abusers get shot. NLo sympathy for them here.

[SleepyArcher]

ABORTION!!!!! It's her body she gets the right to do what she wants. It was against her will. no one has brought up the thought that if this uncle is biological to her there can be many problems with this baby, chromosomal and such. Forget the church and the gov't they should have no bussiness in this anyways.

[Sir Ironhead]

Man up.  Karma is a boomerang.

The problem of "manning up" is you got to be a man in the first place.  This s*&%sack doesn't qualify as human, let alone male.  11 years old.  Dude, if you're that hard up lock your bedroom door and rub one out.

Child molester, rapist, etc I can't think of a fate worse enough for them.