A Different Perspective

[groomporter]

She dresses as a man in a black doublet and tights and with pumpkin pants if I recall. Even has a little fake chin beard. So the thought that she has some feminist message is also kind of lost in the sense that she's cross-dressing.

A couple years ago we also had a guy show up wearing a jerkin stitched together from "Magic the Gathering" cards.

[will paisley]

Then in come the Trekkies, Steampunk, etc, and he feels like they are thumbing their noses at everyone who has worked hard to provide a fun environment with a semi-realistic portrayal of the time period.  It's like they are saying, "Yeah, this is a Renaissance Festival, but I dress this way because I CAN, and there's nothing you can do about it."  And he feels it takes so much away from the environment.

I've worked faire for seven years now, and I have to say that is a rather myoptic and, dare I say, self-centered way of viewing the matter.  I can pretty much guarantee that nobody is thinking "there's nothing you can do about it".  They're probably not thinking about what any of the cast and characters at faire are thinking at all.  The primary reason they're wearing what they are wearing is because faire is a place where a lot of people dress up "differently" and it's a safe place for them to do so.  I know for a fact that this is why some of the furries and S&M fetishes dress up and come to faire, because I've talked to them.  They feel they can wear what they want to wear and not be judged, and I for one feel that this feeling of universal acceptance is one of the greatest things about faire in general, and why so many people are drawn to it so strongly.

The problem is that some of it is disturbing and disrupting to the guests.  I have taken mundanes to Faire, trying to turn them on to our little world.  This was years ago at the Ontario RenFest, which unfortunately closed years ago.  They saw four people in Trek uniforms (albeit very low quality ones) and thought that it was dumb, and it took away from their experience, and what were they doing there, and in a round about way the experience turned them away from Faire.  Many mundanes are at Faire for the first time, and you only get one chance to make a first impression.  We need the mundanes to help support our Faires through their revenues.  If you think that Playtrons keep Faires afloat, think again, we are in the minority of attendees.  If they leave a Faire with the outstanding thought is of a bunch of Stormtroopers or an Away Team (because everything else "fit in" at the Shire, that would stand out) then they may not return, because the Faire has just turned into another ComiCon.

I've heard the "first impression" argument before, and I remain unconvinced.  There are always stories about how somebody came during Day of Wrong, or saw somebody in a chain mail bikini, or some other thing that convinced them that faire was "stupid".  What I would have told the offended people would be along the lines of my earlier point; that what makes the faire community so wonderful is not a slavish adherence to any particular time period, but a sense of acceptance of people for who they are.  Those people in their low quality Star Trek uniforms are welcome because they're here to have fun, and that's what faire is all about.

I myself have heard comments like this from cast members. The cast directors expect them to stay in character regardless of what their 'audience' is wearing but the trekkies and the storm troopers frwquently make that more difficult than people in mundane clothing do. Not all of them by any means, but enough of the star trek characters have come up in the middle of a lane set and pretend to run scanners over the person or persons invovled in the skit. So that irritant probably set them against sci-fi characters at faire to begin with. My personal opinion is I don't go to sci-fi cons in all my regalia and expect to be treated as the Marquesa De Rende, so why should they come to a Renaissance faire and expect all of us to treat them as if its a sci-fi con?

The problem I see here is not the clothing, but the behavior.  Regardless of what they were wearing, they were stepping on your bit (which is a bit of an occupational hazard when doing bits in the lanes).  Would it have made any difference if they were in street clothes, but drunk and interrupting your bit?  What if they were SCAdians in authentic garb joining in in an inappropriate fashion?  The worst interruption I ever got as a performer was from somebody in garb, totally "in character" with their Celtic persona.  I was introducing the Scotsman's kilt song, and they started screaming about how the English accused all the Scots of being drunkards, and how horrible the English were.  The interruption was as "historically accurate" as anything else going on at faire, but I would've much rather have had to deal with some Trekkies, steampunks or Whovians.

I've long said that the paying public can attend in whatever is street legal in that community,* and I admit people watching is part of the fun of fair, but I would suggest that things like Star Trek/War uniforms, furries or other attention grabbing clothing ( http://mrffriends.tripod.com/pages_groups/unusual_patrons.html ) can be things that distracts the audience from the actual show especially when they walk past or join the audience of stage acts that are in performance. They can also reinforce the public perception that there's nothing historical/educational to be found at Renfairs.

Of all the "negative" comments I've read, this is the one I can sympathize with the most.  I wore a Day of Wrong outfit last year that pretty much stopped a show in the middle of a song (it was in support of a bit I was doing with the act and the act following them, and I thought I had timed it so I would be noticed between songs, but I mistimed it and they were already singing ... to the backs of the audience while they all turned around and looked at me.  I came by and apologized afterward.)  It's the visual equivalent of yelling to somebody halfway across faire while standing next to a stage act in the middle of a show.  While it's something performers have to put up with, at the same time it's still annoying.

[NoBill Lurker]

They feel they can wear what they want to wear and not be judged, and I for one feel that this feeling of universal acceptance is one of the greatest things about faire in general, and why so many people are drawn to it so strongly.

Well said sir!

[Noble Dreg]

So Nazi arm bands and 18" phalluses are ok???

Both are real examples of "Faire" attire.

I guess we all have our own comfort level with others expressing their "freedoms".  Apparently I am close-minded.

[Anna Iram]

I guess the point here might be don't let other peoples choices drag you down. If some one does show up and act in an offensive manner, or dress in a way that *you* might be inclined to be upset by, don't let it color your day. There's so many happy things at faire, why focus on the few that upset you? Laugh it off and let it go.

[will paisley]

So Nazi arm bands and 18" phalluses are ok???

Both are real examples of "Faire" attire.

I guess we all have our own comfort level with others expressing their "freedoms".  Apparently I am close-minded.

"Your freedom to swing your arm ends where my nose begins."

Other people have already mentioned clothing being "street legal".  For that matter, most faires do at least an adequate job of policing clothing deemed "obscene" or inappropriate for the general public (where "public" includes children).  To use your turn of phrase, apparently I'm content to let the faire management and security staff do its job.

Moreover, none of what you mention has anything to do with steampunk, Trekkie, or Star Wars outfits, which is what the original post about.  The objections that most people would have to someone wearing a 18 inch phallus or a Nazi armband have nothing to do with how it "doesn't fit in" with the setting of a Renaissance Faire.

[Noble Dreg]

Moreover, none of what you mention has anything to do with steampunk, Trekkie, or Star Wars outfits, which is what the original post about.  The objections that most people would have to someone wearing a 18 inch phallus or a Nazi armband have nothing to do with how it "doesn't fit in" with the setting of a Renaissance Faire.

We all have a right to express an opinion on a public forim without being labelled "Myopic" or "self-centered".  I too leave it to Faire managemennt to decide...By expressing my opinion to them and on this forum.

You yourself brought up S&M/Furries, also not in the original post...So you can deviate whereas I cannot?

[will paisley]

Moreover, none of what you mention has anything to do with steampunk, Trekkie, or Star Wars outfits, which is what the original post about.  The objections that most people would have to someone wearing a 18 inch phallus or a Nazi armband have nothing to do with how it "doesn't fit in" with the setting of a Renaissance Faire.

We all have a right to express an opinion on a public forum without being labeled "Myopic" or "self-centered".  I too leave it to Faire management to decide...By expressing my opinion to them and on this forum.

The original post repeated the opinion that people were dressing in non-appropriate attire to "thumb their noses" at cast, and that they had the attitude of "there's nothing you can do about it".  To think that people are dressing up for the express purpose of offending cast *is* myopic and self-centered. If the person being quoted weren't actually on cast, I probably wouldn't have drawn as much attention to the statement.  However, it pains me to know that there are people working faires who have such a low opinion of their audience, solely based on their attire.

You yourself brought up S&M/Furries, also not in the original post...So you can deviate whereas I cannot?

I can deviate, you can deviate.  However, if you bring up the objections to one subject (obscene clothing) as an argument against another (steampunk, Star Trek), I am going to point out that they are, in fact, two different subjects.

[groomporter]

Moreover, none of what you mention has anything to do with steampunk, Trekkie, or Star Wars outfits, which is what the original post about.  The objections that most people would have to someone wearing a 18 inch phallus or a Nazi armband have nothing to do with how it "doesn't fit in" with the setting of a Renaissance Faire.

I think the Nazi arm band is something that doesn't fit in at a Renfair, but the main point is those things can be just as distracting to the audience as the other other outfits.

On a slightly different twist, there are some also participants or fair managers who would prefer that customers did not come in costume at all. Usually they are afraid the audience can't tell who is a participant and who is a patron and are afraid the cast will be blamed for some behavior committed by a playtron. If I'm not mistaken, isn't there a fair or two out there that requires cast members to wear some sort of visible badge/identifying mark?

[Marietta Graziella]

This topic seems to be creeping towards aggressive... let's all just take a breath and enjoy our day at faire. 

[cowgrrl]

Moreover, none of what you mention has anything to do with steampunk, Trekkie, or Star Wars outfits, which is what the original post about.  The objections that most people would have to someone wearing a 18 inch phallus or a Nazi armband have nothing to do with how it "doesn't fit in" with the setting of a Renaissance Faire.

I think the Nazi arm band is something that doesn't fit in at a Renfair, but the main point is those things can be just as distracting to the audience as the other other outfits.

On a slightly different twist, there are some also participants or fair managers who would prefer that customers did not come in costume at all. Usually they are afraid the audience can't tell who is a participant and who is a patron and are afraid the cast will be blamed for some behavior committed by a playtron. If I'm not mistaken, isn't there a fair or two out there that requires cast members to wear some sort of visible badge/identifying mark?

Scarborough Faire cast members & stage performers wear a specific pin that identifies them as 'real' & not playtron.  Its about the size of the side of your fist & changes every year.

[groomporter]

We had badges for cast for a year or two at MNRF, but I think it was more about the new artistic director needing to be able to separate a cast he did not know as well yet from boothies or playtrons.

[crashbot]

So, the renaissance, medieval, pre industrial age, and fantasyaspects of a faire are ancillary to what is basically a catch all for people to wear any sort of costume? Why bother calling it a renaissance festival at this point and not just a big anything goes roll playing costume party?

I' not trying to sound like a d-bag, but seriously...

[Taffy Saltwater]

In the meantime, this is the good ol' USofA where we have a little thing called the First Amendment, which we use and abuse everyday on this forum.  The First Amendment also covers nonverbal expression whose purpose is to communicate ideas.  So unless and until such time as fairs may amend their entry rules (i.e., no steamers, Star Wars, GOA/Pirates, fairies, wizards, Star Trek, ad infinitum), I'll be out there taking full advantage of the First Amendment.

[Captain Jack Wolfe]

In the meantime, this is the good ol' USofA where we have a little thing called the First Amendment...

Which ends where private property begins, which is why faires can and do have rules as to what is acceptable at their venue.  Any "freedom of expression" is strictly at the whim of the owners.  Just a minor point.