New noble garb wearer...order of underthings, belts, help??

[Hausfrau Monica]

Warm greetings to all.

I have just acquired my first noble garb ensemble and have some questions on fit and accessories.  A partelette shirt is included with a band collar and ties.  Is this worn tied at the front with the opening exposing the cleavage or to the back so a flat front and high neck are visible?  I also have other chemises which have either lace collars or elastic gathered neck.  Would one of those be appropriate?

If I wished to wear a belt to carry a fan and pouch, would this be underneath the bodice and what type?  I have a heavy leather belt that goes on top of my other wench bodice but I don't think that would be appropriate or comfortable somehow.

If I tie the sleeves on, then the weight of them pulls the shoulder straps off of my shoulders yet the shoulder straps are tied to the bodice as far as they will go.

I wish I knew how to insert a picture from Facebook so I could show you what I mean.

With thanks for any advice....Monica

[isabelladangelo]

I always suggest that people look at the actual period portraits before they buy anything.  It gives you an idea of how all of this stuff was worn and how to wear it.

http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/ElenoraToledo4.jpg <The ties are always to the front for practical reasons.  If it gets too hot, you can untie the partlet easily and leave it open.

http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/HelenaSnakeborg.jpg < An example of a partlet with matching sleeves over a smock -which is what you want to get.  A gathered chemise is okay at the neckline but you'd be more comfortable with a square necked smock.  There are a few extant ones you'll probably want to look up.

http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/UnknownChild7.jpg < This is an example of a high necked smock.  Again, they always fasten towards the front.

http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/UnknownLady35.jpg < An example of a lady carrying her watch on her girdle/belt

http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/FrenchNobleWoman1.jpg < An excellent example of a lady carrying her purse on her belt and carrying her fan

http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/FrenchNobleWoman2.jpg < Another purse example

As far as the shoulder straps are concerned, they probably need to be taken in a bit and made tighter. 

Although Facebook is pure evil (no, really), all you need to do is what you do with any other picture - right click, save the image to your desktop, and put it somewhere a bit more sane like photoshop or flickr. Then click on the picture icon in the reply window here.  It's the second one on the bottom on my screen.  Insert the new link to the picture between the img tags.

[DonaCatalina]

to insert a picture you need the link for the picture. i.e. http://www. whatever. jpg
bracketed between [img ][/img ]

Of course without the extra spacing.

[McGuinness]

A thin belt or sturdy piece of lacing or ribbon would work, although I prefer attaching clasps to the top of the skirt or underside of the bodice and hand things from chains or ribbons from there. Less bulk around the waist and doesn't show like a belt might.

[Orphena]

Greetings Monica!

*L* you likely did not venture to the Country Ren Faire (ala mudbowl), or we could have had a wonderful chat! I actually did a "garb a noble" show, and stripped down to my undies (that's tudor undies, all you peeping toms!), and showed the order of dressing!

Partlet goes with the ties at the front. A very proper lady would likely wear it closed, but I tend to wear it open at the bottom and closed at the top - createing a triangle pointing up to my chin that displays to fullest adantage the....assets. I have been told that it is very pleasing to the eye (and that by a man who I have only the slightest acquaintance! Shocking, I know!) - so when I can bear it (for it IS hot to wear!), I do it in this manner. If I were to be in company with those who cast a frowning eye, I could close it - but I haven't yet!

The belts - I put clasps on most of my accessories, and wear an "under girdle"- aka a piece of HEAVY chain (Not hardware store heavy, but not jewelery store quality either) around my waist, under my bodice, and under my over skirt. I then pull the chain up from under the over skirt wiastband, and clasp things to it. The skirting on my bodice covers the clasps, and I wear a jewelled girdle on top of the bodice, which hangs nicely since there is no wieght pulling it down.  To find such a chain, I would reccomend checking thrift stores - the 80s saw purses with leather threaded through chains as the long shoulder strap. Buy a couple, even if they are different colours - no one will see them!

[Hausfrau Monica]

See! I missed so much by not being able to attend the  Country Rainfest....uh Renfest in Milton.  I understand a good time was had by all despite the rain and mud from Lady Julianna`s wonderful photos.

Someone.....Operafantomet, I think....also posted a wonderful sequence of photos on one of the boards of her getting dressed.  I will have to go in search of it.

Thank you all for the advice...I can`t wait to try things out.

[Orphena]

Monica - trust me - it was fun...but very very muddy! My hems were destroyed - it was a good thing I have a hem guard on the bottom, or I would have had to make an entirely new skirt! You may want to consider adding a strip of sturdy fabric (I use ultrasuede) to the bottom of your skirts - it takes the abuse of mud and rough terrain, and can be torn off and replaced! I simply sew it over the bottom of my skirt - 3 inches on each side. The shame of it was that I had made all new undergarments for the show - pristine white, and the farthingale now has mud stains which will not come off!

PM me, and I'll send you my name so you can facebook me and take a look at some other pics!

[isabelladangelo]

A very proper lady would likely wear it closed

Not true!   The partlet looks to have evolved from the hood in the 15th c.   You see it most commonly in Germany before, in the mid1-6th century jumping over to England.  Queen Mary, who was very fond of the partlet fashion, wore hers open.  http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Queen_Mary_I_by_Hans_Eworth.jpg  
She would wear a partlet for "decency" but many a proper young lady didn't wear one at all.  

http://www.wga.hu/art/h/heemsker/1/3portrai.jpg <-Another lady, from about 1530, wearing her partlet open but with a closed chemise

http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/wkclass/wk3.html <- much later and Northern Italy, but this cute little girl has her partlet tucked up under her straps!

http://www.gogmsite.net/the_middle_1500s_-_1550_to_/1555_louise_halluin_dame_de.html

http://www.gogmsite.net/the_middle_1500s_-_1550_to_/1563_claude_de_chateaubrun_.html

http://www.gogmsite.net/the_middle_1500s_-_1550_to_/1565_claude_de_beaune_by_fr.html

http://www.gogmsite.net/the_middle_1500s_-_1550_to_/ca_1575_louise_de_lorraine_.html




There are also the high necked chemises at the time which can be mistaken for partlets.  

http://www.elizabethan-portraits.com/UnknownLady11.jpg  <- The two ladies in the middle, both noble, have their high necked chemises untied.

Also, keep in mind, it gets pretty cold in England and Germany.  In Italy, the partlets took on a completely different shape and were often not worn at all.  

[gem]

I love my partlet (made from the free pattern on the Margo Anderson website), and mostly wear it like this: 

http://www.gogmsite.net/the_middle_1500s_-_1550_to_/1555_louise_halluin_dame_de.html

I just was never sure that the triangular opening, exposing the cleavage, looked quite right on me.

Mine is made from bright white broadcloth, and it is FANTASTIC for days when it's chilly!! I can't count the number of brisk late fall Fair days when I had to bundle up in a cloak simply because my neck was freezing, when the rest of me was fine. The partlet is now an essential part of my cold-weather garb (I also made a Henrician bonnet that covers my ears--also a big help!)

Here I am on one of those chilly days, all buttoned up: