Dress Pattern

[Nissa]

Hi!  I hoping someone can give me some suggestions for a pattern, either for an Irish dress, or something similar to this:
http://www.museumreplicas.com/p-589-fleur-de-lis-dress.aspx
I've though of taking a vest pattern, like Simplicity 4079, changing the waistline so that it looks more like a "v" instead of a "w" (dose that make sense?) and attaching a skirt to make an Irish dress; would that work?

I think of myself as an intermediate seamstress- I can make skirts and chemises, but I'm not ready to try making something elaborate.  I should also add that, due to medical issues, I don't want anything that will cinch in my waist- I prefer looser fitting garb. 

Thanks.

[isabelladangelo]

Hello!

The style you linked to is vaguely Italian. 

This pattern is h/a  For the style you want, just leave off the sleeves.   

Or, if you want to go the fantasy route, check out this "Irish" dress pattern based on the movie Legend   (What people call an Irish dress, the Irish never wore!)

There are several good historical patterns out there.  Just check out the simplicity or mccalls website to see the catalog.

[operafantomet]

These are also close to the Italic style from the first link:

http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh513-1540s-60s-florentine-ladys-outfit.html

http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh508-fruitseller-or-common-womans-dress.html

http://store.reconstructinghistory.com/rh511-1500s-1525-florentine-womans-outfit.html

As Isabella said, just leave out the sleeves from the patterns, or make them tie-ons. The beauty about Italian style is that you can have the opening in front, in the back, or at the sides - all were common.

Whatever you do, DON'T use a waistcoat as a basis for a bodice. The straps of a waistcoat is typically made to cover the shoulders and parts of the collar bones, while historical dress straps were made to expose as much of this area as possible. Straps placed too far in screams modern, and ruin the nice lines of historical styles. It really is the number one thing people do wrong, no matter if they go for historical accuracy or not.

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Hello and Welcome...

Here is a pattern for an Irish Dress frpm a company called Alter Years. I have several patterns from this company that work very well for what I am doing.

http://www.alteryears.com/


Pattern number is PAY-014FJ

Two examples of Irish Dresses I have done over the years..Using an Alter Years Irish Dress Pattern. The skirt part are panels sewn together and then gathered, then attached to the Bodice.



There are grommets that were put in for front lacing. The shouolder tabs, I added .

The Bodices of both dresses are underlined in 2 layers of Cotton Canvas Duck to give support and body. Then lined. there are 5 layers all together. Using a Leather needle may prove helpful when sewing through thicknesses.

[DonaCatalina]

Welcome to the Sewing Forums;
If you are looking for a V waistline
Try Simplicity 4508
All you would need are the bodice and skirt pieces. Then your Leine would be a completely seperate piece. Leine is actually just the Gaelic word for linen; but in the fair world and the SCA it has come to mean the shirt or chemise with many yards of fabric on the sleeves.
http://www.moonstruckoriginals.com/order.html

[Lady Renee Buchanan]

The red Irish dress that Lady Kathleen posted is mine!  You can see the shoulders in my profile picture!

It is so comfortable, and it certainly doesn't squish in your waist.  And looks really nice on, too.

[Kate XXXXXX]

I'd advise avoiding any Reconstructing History patterns...  Never come across one that didn't have a major drafting fault!  By all means look at the work Kass did on the dress, but be aware that there may be issues with the pattern, especially if you need a plus size.  I find it easier to draft my own.

[gem]

Well met, Nissa! 

We bought my MIL that Museum Replicas dress several years ago! If you're interested in buying instead of making, it's a really nice piece.

Instead of taking a vest pattern and adding a skirt, I'd advise looking at the costume sections in the pattern catalogue; I think you'll be more pleased with the results.

That said, I've done exactly what you're considering--I took a Simplicity corset pattern (2621, a really nice Renaissance corset) and added a skirt. You can see that here:
http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL417/1033223/23882966/398339163.jpg

My very first Renaissance wear project was an older Simplicity Irish dress pattern, 7756. It's out of print now, but there are several on ebay. I think it would be a great option for you--it's a project that's right in line with your skill level, not too hard but ambitious enough for you to learn a lot making it; and it's not too fitted, so you'll be nice and comfortable. The one thing it doesn't have is the pointed waist, but I have to be honest with you--I did that on the purple dress I made, and it was one of the MOST difficult things I've ever wrestled with in sewing (not an easy thing to figure out without the proper pattern pieces, that's for sure!). However! There's a very similar Simplicity pattern (also out of print, unfortunately), 4488, that has the pointed waist that you want: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=simplicity+4488

I know trying to track down an OOP pattern is kind of a hassle, but these are nice projects that really fit everything you're looking for. The Big 3 haven't come out with a similar pattern that's as nice as 7756 (for the same style, I mean).

Good luck!

[Nissa]

I appreciate all the advice.  All the suggestions look great, but I really like the Simplicity 7756 (I don't have to have the pointed waist), I'll see if I can get my hands on one of those. 

Gramercy (from my lurking here, I assume that means thanks)

[Lady L]

Yes, Simp 7756 is a good pattern. I made it several times.

[isabelladangelo]

I'd actually warn you about 7756.  It's made for a modern costume, not garb.  It does not fit the way a true bodice should.  Now, you can edit it by taking out the princess seams and elongating the straps so you don't need to tie them together.  I'd also suggest raising the neckline since it is a bit low.   Honestly, I'd use another pattern because it will require a lot of work to make it something other than a Halloween costume.   

[Lady Renee Buchanan]

I'd actually warn you about 7756.  It's made for a modern costume, not garb.  It does not fit the way a true bodice should.  Now, you can edit it by taking out the princess seams and elongating the straps so you don't need to tie them together.  I'd also suggest raising the neckline since it is a bit low.   Honestly, I'd use another pattern because it will require a lot of work to make it something other than a Halloween costume.   

Sorry, but I think this last comment is a bit snarky, especially since so many people have commented about how much they like this pattern.  Nissa never said anything about wanting to be historically accurate, she just doesn't want a tight waist.  Your comment makes it seem like all the others who made this pattern and liked it are wearing Halloween costumes.

Just my two cents.

[isabelladangelo]

The pattern was originally intended as a Halloween costume.   It wasn't until the past few years that the Big 3 started to create patterns specially meant for the Renn Fest and for other venues. 

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

When I worked at the Costume shop, I used this very pattern back in 2003 for a client for her wedding when she would have been 8 months pregnant. I took into account where she would have been at the time, and things turned out to be damn close.

The pattern had to be lengthened in places due to the client's measurements.

Until SIMPLICITY started coming out with Historical Patterns more suited to be worn with the proper undergarments, they were a bit costumey. Great strides have been taken to heart, and thus SIMPLICITY has some of the better patterns of the Big 3 I have seen.

[Kate XXXXXX]

Some pattern comments:

For someone with moderate to good sewing skills but little drafting experience, and who doesn't want or need to be historically accurate, the Simplicity pattern is tried and tested and does at least work.  You can make it out of splendid fabric and nice bling, or something rustic and home-spun looking, and wear it over your ordinary underwear and not look out of place at a ren fair.

For those with a little more experience, who want something a little less 'packet top', the Alter years one gets good reviews.

For those that want a greater level of accuracy, and want to dress the part from the skin out, there are Margo's (Margo  Anderson's Ladies Wardobe et al)patterns, or Ninya's (The Turor Tailor range).  These requite a higher level of skill to make but will give you a nice degree of accuracy.

For those who want to start with paper and pencil, there are several books about that will give you graph patterns for extant garments which you can draw to full scale and then alter to fit your corseted figure...  This requires a fairly high degree of concentration and dedication, some good drafting skills, and a fairly high levl of sewing skill to complete, but will give the purist the best results. 

Just because I'm me and prefer this last approach does not negate the usefulness of any of the others.  I see it as a kind of progression.  You sew at a moderate level, and go to fair occasionally, or want to start going in costume, so you start with Simplicity...  If the bug for real accuracy bites, you progress up both the skill tree and the involvement tree, and and end up on the last level, designing and making your own kit based on pictures and extant garments you visit in museums.  This is where I am heading...    Next stop, white gloving at the V&A and The Museum of London.  I love doing this for all eras. 

Along the way you will discover patterns that may not be 100% historically accurate, but are well drafted and WORK at all levels.  So use them if you suit you until you grow away from them.

I was looking for something along the lines of that Simplicity pattern (which I have) last year.  But it didn't do quite what I wanted, and several people had fitting issues with it.  In the end it was quicker and easier FOR ME to draft my own 'mock kirtle' pattern with a princess line bodice to wear for Live Action Role Play events over comfy modern undies over several days in potentially very wet, muddy, cold, hot, dry, and dusty condition!

Nissa, whatever your skill level, whatever level of historical accuracy you want, we will help you with the choices available, and once you have made the choice, we'll help you get the look you want.  Sometimes there will be contrary advice.  This happens when different people have different experiences with a particular pattern or fabric combination.  Remember, no one person is either wholly right or wholly wrong.  Just different ideas and methods work for different folk.  The differing advice will give you different methods and ideas to try.  In sewing as in life, there is NO One True Path!