Need ideas for garb that can transcend through time

[Lady Gregory]

From Tudor/Elizabethan England to Colonial New England that is. Now I have never claimed to be historically accurate, but would like to at least look "historically accurish" (as someone here so poignantly put it).  I am starting from scratch, so I am open to all ideas.  My only criteria is that I can wear it to both faire and this neat little Revolutionary era tavern/museum.  

This museum was once a real tavern/inn and operates as a tavern on Saturday evenings during the winter.  They serve authentic ale, mead and perry as well as food from the period.  They also have musical entertainment and storytellers that one would see during that time.  It is in a small town, so not touristy at all, and most of their patrons dress in period garb.  The only thing I have so far is my wool cloak.  I haven't been in years, but figured this would be a fun thing to do in the winter during off season.

I know some of you are reenactors and/or make other period garb, so I was hoping you could give me some ideas.  Nobility is definitely out as the fashions changed the most with the upper class, plus you would never catch a proper lady at a tavern in 17th century NE, although she may have spent the night at the inn.  

[isabelladangelo]

Unfortunately, there isn't a way to do it that doesn't looked forced or odd.  I've seen some people attempt a bodice. chemise, and skirt but it ends up neither looking 16th or 18th Century.   The cut of the clothing changed too much from one era to another and the desired feminine silhouette changed too much as well. 

The 18th C stays and 16th C stays both create similar but different shapes when done correctly.   The 16th C stays were meant to just keep everything in place and be a more rounded cone shape.  18th C wanted to pull the waist in more and flattened the front of body.   The stays are the most complicated part of both eras.  Once you get a pair that fit, everything from there is very easy to create quickly.   

That being said, you could do a pair of jumps for the 18th C and a simple bodice for the 16thC - both are easier to make and work well for lower class personas respectively.   

[Lady Gregory]

Unfortunately, there isn't a way to do it that doesn't looked forced or odd.  I've seen some people attempt a bodice. chemise, and skirt but it ends up neither looking 16th or 18th Century.   The cut of the clothing changed too much from one era to another and the desired feminine silhouette changed too much as well.  

The 18th C stays and 16th C stays both create similar but different shapes when done correctly.   The 16th C stays were meant to just keep everything in place and be a more rounded cone shape.  18th C wanted to pull the waist in more and flattened the front of body.   The stays are the most complicated part of both eras.  Once you get a pair that fit, everything from there is very easy to create quickly.  

That being said, you could do a pair of jumps for the 18th C and a simple bodice for the 16thC - both are easier to make and work well for lower class personas respectively.  

Thanks, Isabella, for your reply.  I had a feeling it was not plausible, but wanted to hear from the experts.  I was planning on doing what you suggested in the last paragraph, but was hoping to be able to use the whole ensemble.  If I can use a few pieces that can be interchangeable then that is a good thing.  I have been looking at a few websites and have found some good ideas, but I agree the whole silhouette is entirely different.

Eta:  I would most definitely use a lower class/peasant persona as they didn't seem to conform entirely to the latest fashion.  It seems they made do with what they had.  Correct me if I am wrong, as that is my impression.  I always love learning something new from you ladies.

[gem]

How about a compromise--meet in the middle and do a H/A 17th century working class kit? Check out these photos from Plimoth Plantation and Historic Jamestown to see examples of what early American colonists wore.

You can easily put together a period ensemble that would be totally appropriate at any Renaissance fair, as well as working for your Colonial venue (if looking a little old-fashioned!) For an excellent step-by-step guide to pieces that would work well (skirts, jackets, underpinnings), check out this website by a re-enactor from Kentwell (a Tudor estate in England).

(I'm mixing eras a bit here--Kentwell is much earlier than Jamestown/Plimoth--but I'm being barked to death at the moment by a dog who insists that she must Go Outside Right This Minute or She Will Die, and I'm a bit distracted! Will come back with better details in due time!).

[isabelladangelo]

http://extantgowns.blogspot.com/2011/10/ladies-pair-of-jumps.html

This is later pair of jumps than the period you are probably looking for but it may help to give you a better visualization of what they were wearing in the lower classes.   

For a very simple 18th c petticoat, make two basic aprons.  Sew the aprons together at the sides up to about 7" from the waist.  You have an 18th C petticoat.  :-) 

A late 16th C dress:
http://www.drakt.org/Renaissance/Renessanse_kjole.html

You can see here that the skirt is attached to the bodice.  Although they did have petticoats and bodices, it seems that those were few and a full dress was preferred.  This doesn't seem to make much sense to us given our love of separates and changing up a look, but when you only have two or three outfits and can't really afford more - even wear on a single outfit suddenly makes a lot of sense.   

[Lady Gregory]

How about a compromise--meet in the middle and do a H/A 17th century working class kit? Check out these photos from Plimoth Plantation and Historic Jamestown to see examples of what early American colonists wore.

You can easily put together a period ensemble that would be totally appropriate at any Renaissance fair, as well as working for your Colonial venue (if looking a little old-fashioned!) For an excellent step-by-step guide to pieces that would work well (skirts, jackets, underpinnings), check out this website by a re-enactor from Kentwell (a Tudor estate in England).

(I'm mixing eras a bit here--Kentwell is much earlier than Jamestown/Plimoth--but I'm being barked to death at the moment by a dog who insists that she must Go Outside Right This Minute or She Will Die, and I'm a bit distracted! Will come back with better details in due time!).

I didn't even think of Plimoth or Jamestown, especially as Plymouth is almost in my backyard.  I looked at Williamsburg, and a lot of their examples are quite extravagant, although I did like an outfit on one of the slave girls.  I also looked at Sturbridge, which depicts rural NE from 1790-1840, but there garb seems to be depicting the later end of that 1/2 century span.

Oh, and I got a little chuckle re your dog.  I can totally relate.  You would think the house was burning down the way one of my dogs act if you don't attend to him at once.  He is the most demanding of my family, both human and animal.

[Lady Gregory]

http://extantgowns.blogspot.com/2011/10/ladies-pair-of-jumps.html

This is later pair of jumps than the period you are probably looking for but it may help to give you a better visualization of what they were wearing in the lower classes.   

For a very simple 18th c petticoat, make two basic aprons.  Sew the aprons together at the sides up to about 7" from the waist.  You have an 18th C petticoat.  :-) 

A late 16th C dress:
http://www.drakt.org/Renaissance/Renessanse_kjole.html

You can see here that the skirt is attached to the bodice.  Although they did have petticoats and bodices, it seems that those were few and a full dress was preferred.  This doesn't seem to make much sense to us given our love of separates and changing up a look, but when you only have two or three outfits and can't really afford more - even wear on a single outfit suddenly makes a lot of sense.   

Thank you for the link to your blogs.  Very good read.  I have bookmarked them, and will go back later to read more.

I love that pair of stays and that was one of the ideas I had in mind.  I am imagining it paired with a basic cotton skirt and a 3/4 sleeve simple shift, and perhaps an apron.