Ummm... "bondage camp"??

[BarbarianQueen]

Well this was  a first for me at TRF.  I tend to be a "live and let live" sort of person, just seeking to pass around the joy and good news. I have never been shocked at the festival, yea, in in fact do more shocking than most .
However this past weekend threw me for a bit if a loop.

I and Sir Scott have been camping in the new area in the trees closest to the grounds entrance. It's been nice! We pulled in there early Friday and set up our area, then drove back out to do some shopping. When we got back, as we tried to pull into the area a small group of folks actually stopped our car and made us roll down the window.   "Are you planning to camp in BONDAGE CAMP? Cause that's what this is! You don't have children with you do you?" We responded that we were already set up and drove away from this odd exchange.
After unloading and changing into some "stroll about" garb, we went on our traditional Friday dusk walkabout, to enjoy the atmosphere and maybe meet some folks.  That's  noticed it - all around us were campsites set up to, well, enjoy some bondage!

There was bondage and S&M equipment everywhere, and people were already beginning to indulge themselves. We walked by several camps where people were sitting or walking about totally naked, and we were continually approached or hailed by folks who wanted to know when and where we were going to be participating. Never been offered to be spanked by so many men in such a short span...

Sure enough, at the entrance to that area of the camp grounds, on the road, a sign had been erected saying "bondage camp. No one under 21". And, all weekend long various highly sexualized S&M activities were taking place out in the open.

At our campsite, there was  a group of families who had set up before we got there. They had pre-school and elementary age kids! I believe they ended up leaving or relocating in Saturday afternoon.

Like I said, I'm not easily shocked or disturbed, and judging others is not my thing, but something about this set pretty uneasily with me. I'm all for healthy sex lives and the joys of experimenting and trying new things with your spouse, but this area if the campground seemed to not be the time or the place to engage in out-in-the open sexual play.

I'm guessing that with the size of this forum, some of you reading his May be an active participant in one of the group's that organized this. I'd like to hear your rationale and thoughts behind this event, to be honest. And I wouldn't mind hearing from others as well.
I love the fact that TRF allows folks the right of personal expression, and approaches things on more of a "live and let live" philosophy, but there probably needs to be a line set SOMEWHERE, and I wonder if this may have just stepped over it a bit.

I mean, what happens when one of those parents sues other patrons or TRF for endangering a minor? For sexual harassment? For disturbing the peace with public nudity/sexual acts?
Get a couple of multi-million dollar lawsuits on the docket and watch how fast things change around TRF for the rest of us.
Thoughts?

[Terre Albert]

We monitor the campground all weekend with as many as 11 officers at any given time.  We are aware of this groups and they have been coming to TRF for the past couple of years.  While we do not promote nudity or crude sexual activity we are very tolerant to all our guests and their lifestyles.  I know there were police in the area all weekend and we will watch this group in the future.  Thanks for the information.

[Bar Keep]

     First off although I just signed up for the forums, I have been camping at TRF since the 90's when it was just a small patch of land at the very end of parking farthest away from the entrance. It has always been part of the whole experience of the fest for myself and my friends who make the long journey from New Orleans every year for what is in my eyes the most possible fun that can be had in one weekend. We have made many great friends in the fest and out over the years.
      It is unfortunate that you set up camp early on and they came and camped by you. Some people camp in the same spot every time so that they can be found by friends. I don't know if that was the case here. I don't think it was right to sort of bully you but it was kind of a warning as to what was coming. I was not there to witness them or the setup they had. Over the years I have found it best to get setup quick and play music right away so that those wishing to camp next to us would have an idea that we do not plan to sleep much. We were there Oct. 25,26,27 but stayed in our camp site next door to Valhalla. We had Rocky Horror playing on the movie screen and several people brought the kids to watch it which made some adults uncomfortable. Not really a G rated show.
     The quiet camp ground was created so that those who did not want to hear or see what they think is inappropriate would have a place to camp. Over the years people who should be in the quiet area have started bringing their children on walks through the main camp, fire circle and such and complain about vulgarity nudity and other things they find offensive. They have also set up camp next to loud all night party peeps and felt everyone should have a bedtime that is the same as their own. The main camp is not rated G but the quiet camp ground is.
      Being from New Orleans we get this same attitude from people who bring the kids to Bourbon St. and feel that it should be kid friendly. If it was rated G it would not exist. Adults need a safe place they can have fun without having to worry about children watching. The security at the camp grounds has always been fair to those who were not out of hand. They have a tough job that can go unappreciated to say the least. Yes some do get out of control and they get dealt with appropriately. I would not bring a church group or kids to either Bourbon Street or TRF main camp.
       If people do try and ban all the adult activities and turn it into a Disney campground I nor my friends would be making the drive anymore. We do not believe in drinking and driving and that is what makes the camp ground perfect for us! We can enjoy great food and drink all day in the fest and walk home to our camp. The most brilliant idea ever!
       We are coming back to camp on Nov. 22 for the weekend and will be staying up til the wee hours being a loud fun bunch that we are and we invite all ADULTS to come to our camp for some New Orleans hospitality.

        I hope your weekend was at least half as fun as ours was even though you saw more than you wanted to!!

        P.S. There are those who treasure your belongings as much or more than you do at the camp. Make sure you lock your valuables in your vehicle and if you have a cooler or generator lock it with a chain or it may walk away with a pawn shop fairy!!

   

[SirRichardBear]

I'm pretty open about things and really have no problem with alternate styles of entertainment.   The question for me is were they respectfull to other campers aka not blasting lights and music till 6am,   warning others that the area was not PG-13 in a friendly none threatening way and didn't try to bully or intimiate the other campers and did they pick up after themselves and not trash the camp grounds.  Kept their activities within their own camp and did not invide other camps unwanted.

[KiltedPrivateer]

I don't agree with the movie rating policy.  Quiet versus Non-Quiet does not equate to Family Friendly versus Red Light District.  Sorry, that ain't gonna fly.

Our camp, the same as many others, has occupied the same area on the same weekends for many years.  We are located in the main camp at what was once called row 0.  We camp directly behind the remnants of Chaos, and our camp IS Family Friendly.  We do not tollerate all night partying and will indicate this nicely, one time only. 

We had an altercation with a bunch of kids (20 somethings) who felt that the main camp was a 24 hour long party place and that they could hold that party where ever they pleased.  To them, that included next to our camp which had been setup since Thursday night.  They arrived on Saturday.  Decided that spinning fire next to our tents was a good idea.  At 3am, we are no longer polite.

The main camp will always be all things to all people.  You respect my groups right to be safe with our kids, quietly after 2am, with a tent that isn't burnt to the ground, and we'll let y'all have your all night drunkfest that should be about 100 yards away.

As for the topic of the thread, if they keep themselves walled in and are not exposing themselves to thems that don't wish to see it, and the faire is ok with it, then let them do what they please.  However, it is still first come first claim, and if your claim is gone when you get there, and you intend act in a way that may not agree with your neighbors, then you need to find a new place to setup.

Lorde Charles
Clan Procrastination
I will destroy you if you threaten my family's safety

[PollyPoPo]

A lot of people here are pretty open minded about alternative lifestyles and the like.  However, there are some other questions that might need consideration in any discussion of this particular topic.  Such as:

Are the nudity and special activities visible to any Faire-goers who are not camping?  (Barbarian Queen mentioned it was in the new tree-line camping area near Faire entrance.  How close that is to non-camping parking?  Or to the outside privy?  Cannot figure out on the campground map exactly where bondage camp was set up.)  (Later reply indicates it was not visible.)

Are the nudity and special activities visible to campers who are driving from further out and parking in what used to be rows 1-5?  (This could very likely include people from family/quiet camping trying to park closer.)  (Later reply indicates it was not visible.)

Is that camp allowed to create some kind of barrier around themselves by roping area off, putting up screening cloths?  (Something other groups are not allowed to do.)

Did they actually create their camp area around where other campers were already set up, in effect evicting anyone not wanting to be part of the nudity and special activities? (The Barbarian Queen's posted she was already camped and perhaps a couple other families – not clear if they were there before the bondage camp.)

Are they allowed to post a no one under 21 sign on the road? 

Since the area is close to the entrance, is it visible to campers walking to and from the Faire from the campgrounds?  (Later reply indicates it was not visible.)

Are toys left out visible to incoming Faire-goers (campers or not) in the morning? 
(Later reply indicates it was not visible.)

[big screen n badge]

Obviously we all sleep at some point.  But, we like many others make the journey from afar for a reason.  Our reason has been the freedom to have a mainly unrestricted and ungoverned good time, enjoy friends new and old and dazzle at the spectacle that is the renfest and it's wonderfully open camping experience.  Obviously we all have something or another that bothers us about it, hell if you have gone as many years and times that we have it's unavoidable to rub someone the wrong way or vice versus.  In recent years rules have surfaced that admittedly they make sense in many ways - but rules they be none-the-less.  Rules absorb the freedom and when the freedom goes so does the experience.  Love thy neighbor is the general status quo as long as thy neighbor love thee back.  I agree that setting up upon an existing camp and saying this is how it is and how it will be, especially if your bringing an extreme sense of fun, is, well not right, the area is large enough to venture elsewhere rather than to encroach another's site.  I also agree that the main camping area is and has for the decades we have gone been considered "that free zone" of anything goes and sleep if you can.  It should remain as such so as to not lose the magic that created it.  Knowing this when we camp with and for our friends for unrestricted fun the main site is where we reside.  When we camp to bring the kids we gracefully bow out and locate elsewhere so that the presence of our offspring doesn't spoil others freedoms on their days of decadence.  My eyes enjoy the spectacle but, it's ultimately MY responsibility to shield my children that exposure until they are of age, as such we camp outside the main in the quiet "family" zone.  To do otherwise would be unjust to all.  To expect the fest to lay jury over this matter is wrong.  To expect the police to, well that is how rules come about.  Those who do the complaining and post objections need to direct them inwardly first and analyze the long term effect it could bring to us all before sharing them with the masses or the governors. 

[Bonny Pearl]

This camp was tucked away and signs were posted so people would know what they could potentially walk into.  I was camping near the area and didn't see anything spill out into the other camp areas, nor did I hear of any such incidents.

I've seen this kind of thing out in the open in other areas of camp, wide open, so I'm not really sure why it is being discussed now.  Is it because they 'named' it Camp Bondage and hung a sign like any other clan would?  Is it because these folks wanted to be sure that all around them were safe and aware of what was going on?

No more rules at camp please.  We have enough.

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

This camp was tucked away and signs were posted so people would know what they could potentially walk into.  I was camping near the area and didn't see anything spill out into the other camp areas, nor did I hear of any such incidents.

I've seen this kind of thing out in the open in other areas of camp, wide open, so I'm not really sure why it is being discussed now.  Is it because they 'named' it Camp Bondage and hung a sign like any other clan would?  Is it because these folks wanted to be sure that all around them were safe and aware of what was going on?

No more rules at camp please.  We have enough.

YEAH!  What she said! 

[PollyPoPo]

From what Bonny Pearl said, the Bondage Camp was positioned so it was not visible by people not specifically looking for it.  It would not be evident to other faire goers from the parking lots. 

Am I reading that correctly? 



 

[Bonny Pearl]

From what Bonny Pearl said, the Bondage Camp was positioned so it was not visible by people not specifically looking for it.  It would not be evident to other faire goers from the parking lots. 

Am I reading that correctly? 

You had to read the signs to know it was there Polly.  It was not visible from the road.

[SirRichardBear]

Like I said as long as they respected other campers I have no problem with them and would most likely stop and say hello if for no other reason than I'm a curious person and enjoy meeting people with lots of different views.

[BarbarianQueen]

Well, apparently I am in the minority.
Again, I'm not judging individuals or groups, or trying to offend anyone, and I like rules less than anyone!
And, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but just so we're all on the same page, let me get more specific - there seems to be differences of experiences and observations in the discourse above.
This is where we camped in the new area. We were the yellow dot.

It's really nice!  Flat, shade, and REALLY close to the entrance, in fact, the closest camping in the entire campground.  We were at the yellow dot, and the group with multiple families and small children were the blue dot.  We got there Friday at about 3pm - they were already set up and enjoying the outdoors!
A good size group of young people were camped at the reddish pink dot.  They were there for the Bondage Camp. They were polite, if a bit noisy (laughter, moans and screams from the spankings , and this is what was taking place there in multiple camps over the whole area, in case you didn't happen to wander over for a visit (Stock photo, but a good representation, and a "safe" link. Click it!)

     Link to photo that included nudity removed.  Please PM BarbarianQueen for link.  -  Sir Martin

I had the linked photo above initially embedded like the camp photo.  My thought was to recreate the experience I had unexpectedly encountering this activity, but discretion got the best of me.
I guess my worry was for the families and the kids.  These were not the only families in the area, and their were quite a few other kids and children of varying ages.  We were camped a good 500 feet from the "Bondage Camp" sign (which was up by the Chaos encampment), and it wasn't there at 3pm on Friday (unless we just missed it).
Could you see this from the road? Yes, if you knew where to look or happen to look at just the right time.  Also, that stretch of road is the busiest part of camp at opening and closing of the festival.  Maybe there was a "central official" area for the group, but I can tell you from camping there that participants and their activities were spread over quite a bit of the new area.

Wow, I feel like such a party pooper for expressing my thoughts!  Maybe, as a mom, it was the shock of seeing four year olds playing swordfight, and also being able to see in the same glance the activities of the bondage camp participants.
On reflection, maybe a more remote area of the camp, away from the main road, or better warning signage or more natural cover for the activities would have made me feel less uneasy.

So Terre - does this mean I can stake out an area and set up some signs that say "The Naked Knights and Denuded Damsels - under 21 not admitted" and invite all my clothing optional friends for a party-hearty weekend??



Actually, I'm totally serious on that last bit.  Terre?

[BarbarianQueen]

Don't mean to double post, but I wanted to re-mention something else I shared above.
Lord Scott and I have a long history of visiting obscure places and events "where the wild things are", if you catch my meaning.  Though the years, we've watched these events grow and change, and not always for the best.  In several instances, the activities of these events became so amped up through the years that the "law" finally stepped in, and stepped HARD.  After that, gone were the wonderful and magical experiences which had seemed to be somehow at 90 degrees from the "real" world.  For us, Camping at TRF is still one of those "wild and wooly" experiences that seem to be on a different plane than the world of the 'Danes.  I would just hate for something to occur that would somehow put that at risk.  "No rules!!" is equivalent to anarchy, and the world tends to eventually squash anarchists and their followers, where possibly much freedom with only a gentle hand of guidance might help avoid the mundane-ish hand of "expression oppression".

Hope nobody here takes offense to me sharing my thoughts.  I tried hard not to pass judgement on folks or speak poorly of their activities in the above postings, only to comment on how it was integrated into the TRF world.

[Tink]

I know I'm probably in the minority, but to me it seems like over the past 10 years or so, the campgrounds have gone from the hippy/tribal drumming dancing feeling place that I fell in love with to the in your face I'll do what I want sexual free-for-all that it is now.  Yes, I understand the whole family/ quiet camping thing, but I thought that was originally done for the noise level, not so the rest of the campgrounds could have an orgy...

Again, these are my own personal feelings, and people are free to do what they want, but there's a reason that I and others have stopped going out there as much.