looking for accories for monk outfit

[isabelladangelo]

Here's at least part of the discussion from another list/MB I belong to:
Person 1:
On the Authentic SCA web list you recently posted that while you are not offended by people saying, in an SCA setting that they are Catholic, you are offended by people playing someone of Holy Orders.  My question to you is off topic no SCA specific, so I have emailed off list.  I also work as an actor at our local Renaissance Faire and am looking at playing a preist or a chaplain.  It is my intention to play the character straight and with respect, but I am not a Catholic so I am worried about unknowingly offending.  At this time the role is still up in the air and not finalized, so your input would be helpful.

First, would you be offended simply by someone playing (as an actor) a preist?  If so can you explain why.

Second, can you think of any situations where I might run into problems and give offence without knowing?  Just so you know I may be required to do a simple Mass without communion, but with the liturgy and readings, in Latin.

Thank you for any help you can offer, I won't be offended if you choose not to say anything as this is a personal matter.
Person 2:
I would be offended if someone, actor or not, played a Priest or other
highly religious charater who was not one.   Now, if it was in a stage
setting where it is clear that the people are actors, no, I would not
be offended.  The difference is this: In the theater, typically, there
are scripted lines the actor/ess must adhere too.  In improve, such as
the Renaissance Faire, there is not such guidelines.  Because of this,
the actor/ess is far more likely to either a)be mistaken for a
playtron b)be mistaken for a real person of the cloth and/or c) say
something out of turn that shows disrespect to the holy office.

I have yet to see someone playing the part of a priest/nun/monk
actually act in accordance to the holy office.   Most of the time,
they are half drunk, cursing, and otherwise acting in an offensive
manner.   If not, they are propergating mistaken beliefs regarding the
Church or "hamming up" the idea of indulgances.  Basically, they are
making fun of the Catholic religion in a very distasteful way.

Techincally, no one who has not had Holy Orders or been given
permission by the bishop can conduct mass.  You can conduct prayer
groups or readings, but not mass.   To do so would go against the
Church teachings and, again, mock the Holy Orders.

I realize I might sound harsh but I've seen way too many people think
it's "funny" to stumble around in a habit and act in such a way as to
embarress themselves and those around them.   The clothing is a
physically representation of surrending yourself to God's Will.  To
act as a drunken slut while wearing that clothing is to basically say
"screw you" to God and to those who know he exists...which isn't a
polite thing to do.

Now, I seriously doubt, from the sounds of your email, that you'd join
in the drunken slobs that I've seen far too many times, but it's a
good idea to keep in mind that the clothing is a far bigger
representation than that of just an occupation.

I really hope that helps to clarify my position.  If you have further
questions, feel free to ask.  I know my tone tends to come off as
snobbish to some people via the web but I'm really far more laid back
than it sounds.  :-)

Thank you for your response,

Considering your response and several others that I asked similar questions I have decided that if I play any religious figure, it will be a lay chaplain or deacon.  I am a minister (just not Catholic) and would treat the role with the seriousness that it deserves.  I think that a counter point to the antics of the puritans would be welcomed by some people.  As you suspected I have no intention of playing the uproarious drunkard (nor even the quiet drunkard)

Theatrically the group I am with are all Catholics and we are ambassadors to England, which being protestant is short on Catholic preists.  Realistically they would have brought someone with them to hear confession, say Mass, and God forbid give last rites.  While a deacon can perform some of those functions a chaplain can do them all.

I hope that this sort of figure would not cause too much offense when played straight and not for laughs.

Thank you again sincerely for you thoughful comments


I've, unfortunately, lost a lot of the original thread but basically, he was saying that there were a lot of people telling him "no".
Yes, I do find it personally offensive when I see someone portraying a holy order of my religion.   I would no more want to see someone portray a Buddhist monk who isn't one than to see someone portray a Catholic priest.  It has nothing to do the fact that these are positions still around as much as these are positions of honor and status. 

[renren]

Follow your heart,dress as you see fit!
I mean, people dress as nuns or monks for halloween, too!
If you try hrad enough, you could find something offensive to someone, somewhere with any idea!
I've seen planty of people dressed as monks/nuns, and none of them were followed by angry mobs!

Oh, and please provide us with pics!

[Poof Bird]

I agree with RenRen.  Faire is an escape from reality.  If you want to be a monk, then go for it!  Heck, I'm playing a Lady Knight this season, which is a bit "controversial" in and of itself.

Have fun with your garb!

[BrotherThomas]

I've dressed as a religious figure for the past several (by several I mean five) years. I've never had anybody AT FAIRE say anything to me.

My friend who is a super orthodox Catholic seminarian told me that I was forbidden from entering a Catholic Seminary because I dress like a Cardinal...but whatever. It is...I suppose...technically against Catholic Canon Law to impersonate a priest. If you are not Catholic, you have nothing to worry about.

If you don't feel you are offending God, then go for it. I dress like a priest because that is the line of work that I am in. I represent God at the Faire. My character is a holy cleric. I don't offend. I represent God quite well, I think.

Oh, by the way, the person who mentioned MNRF earlier...the Cardinal you referred to...was it me?

[Lady L]

I think that was me that mentioned a cardinal at MNRF. I don't know the name of the person that portrayed him, so it could have been you, although I don't know what you look like on here, as you don't have an avatar.  I have a photo somewhere that Sir R took, as the cardinal was walking up by the front. He had short, dark hair.

I think that since the Church played such a huge role in the lives of the people during the Renaissance, even extending to artists such as Michelangelo and daVinci, that this is quite under-represented at our faire. So what about Protestants? Is it ok to portray them or not? The Prostestant Reformation was, again, a HUGE event, which affected the throne of King Henry VIII, to the degree that he left his first Catholic wife Catherine of Aragon and became Protestant when he wed Anne Boleyn. How can that be left out of the time period??

Then there were the crusades, another HUGE event that still affects us to this day. Should we not have knights hospitalers?

When I began researching in 1998, for the first time, the pieces of the puzzle fit together, about where banners came from, the order of worship, the hymns we sing, the candles, the vestments, the paraments used on the alter, etc. I had always wondered about the gap from Christ's birth and ministry to the present way we worship. Now it makes sense to me. 

I think a person that does a religious character should do so with some respect and some humor. I don't see anything wrong with that. There are always people offended by something and everyone draws the line in a different place.

With my own art, I have one painting of an angel, not the way *I* think an angel looks, but as represented by the Renaissance artists and commonly accepted by most people. People who are not Christians are offended by it, they have made that clear. I also have paintings of fairies and other fantasy type subjects. People that ARE Christians have complained about that being pagan. I have heard complaints about the whiskers on my horse painting.  You can't make everyone happy. I  think if they don't like it, they can just move on to the next shop, no need to complain. I see things at faire that offend me, I just don't complain, I go to something else.

Brother Thomas, please stop by my booth so we can meet! Shop 228.
Thanks.

[Brother Robert of Essex]

   Wow, I think its scary that people could mistake people at such an obviously costumed event like a Renaissance faire, as a real religious figure.   If people are walking around those faires thinking that everyone wearing a Monk robe is a real Monk, then they must think everyone wearing a Gypsy outfit is a real gypsy, and everyone wearing a pirate outfit is a real pirate?   

     I mean at the faire I have seen, the Friar in his MONK ROBE is getting drunk on wine just before Robin Hood shows up.  Later he is wandering the faire drinking. So if the audience failed to see him on stage but see's him walking around the faire doing improv, is he going to be mistaken for a real monk and should therefore be banned from wearing that outfit?

     I think people get a little too hypersensitive about things I mean a mature adult has got to use a little common sense and intelligence.  I personally don't see an issue with wearing such an outfit, and it never occurred to me that it might be offensive - but I should have guessed that someone would have a problem with it.  I mean there is ALWAYs someone who is going to be upset.

     I'm actually surprised nobody has started to criticize the implications of the Gypsy fortune tellers, the pagan statues and symbols, or the horns that are sold at these faires...

[Poof Bird]

I'm actually surprised nobody has started to criticize the implications of the Gypsy fortune tellers, the pagan statues and symbols, or the horns that are sold at these faires...

Second'ed.  Your whole post is a good point!  *someone* is always going to get offended by what you do.
.

[escherblacksmith]

Some people have, but the usual schtick is that in the day it wasn't uncommon to see charlatans of all varieties (including people of the cloth).

I still say if you want to be a monk, be a monk.  Although, period-wise, weaponry doesn't make sense.  If you want to do something of a more fantasy nature, then knock yourself out. 

As to the rest, I'd say this thread has gone off topic, but it is an interesting discussion, perhaps as a thread of its own?

[Brother Robert of Essex]

Some people have, but the usual schtick is that in the day it wasn't uncommon to see charlatans of all varieties (including people of the cloth).

I still say if you want to be a monk, be a monk.  Although, period-wise, weaponry doesn't make sense.  If you want to do something of a more fantasy nature, then knock yourself out. 

As to the rest, I'd say this thread has gone off topic, but it is an interesting discussion, perhaps as a thread of its own?

   You're right - and my apologies for contributing to the derailment - lets try to put it back on track! LOL!

    Accessories for a Monk - have you considered looking for a Religious supply Store?  Or even a Theater Wardrobe place - I know there are many of these in NYC.   But if you do an online search for Religious supplies or Church Supplies you'll find a few places that sell online stuff - everything from crosses and holy water, to the belts used for monk robes ( Cinctures I think its called? ) - those cords with the knots at the end.

       You might be able to pick up a cross at the actual faire though, they usually have those tents/booths selling jewelry, rings, necklaces etc and I always see at least a few pewter crosses of various designs with them.

[Poof Bird]

For a cross, get your butt to Hobby Lobby!  They pride themselves in being a "christian owned store."  They have so many crosses that they could fill at least 2 isles full of them.  Go into the unfinished wood section, get yourself one, then some leather cording and maybe a few wooden beads, and make yourself a really quick, albeit nice, cross to hang from your belt of neck.

Post pictures of your finished garb!

[gypsylakat]

you could carve yourself one, depending on your financial status (of your character)

No idea if this is period or not, but I know back when I was christian at Vacation Bible school one time we made crosses out of old fashioned nails... it was either 8 or 4 of them criscrossed in a cross fashion and then bound with wire but you could use leather or cord to bind them...

[Brother Robert of Essex]

What do you do for a belt do you use a peasant ring belt? Or a rope or something? Can you just get a length of rope from the hardware store or is that too cheesy? And is a rope or cloth belt strong enough to hold pouches and such from it?

  I was trying to get a look at the Friar Tuck at my home faire who seems to have a belt and several pouches though I couldn't see what sort of belt it was or if it was indeed rope ?

   Ah well - yes a pic would be cool!

[escherblacksmith]

I don't know if I have a picture, I haven't done a monk in 14 years . . .

but I used 3 hemp ropes (no more then 1/2" diameter apiece) and braided them together.

Worked quite well.  Something not white would work best, or use white and dirty it up a bit.

[jcbanner]

for the belt itself I've seen several people make belts by braiding together long strips of cloth.  depending on how tightly you braid it, it could make a strong belt once you get all the strech out of it.

[Amras Elfwine]

Follow your heart,dress as you see fit!
I mean, people dress as nuns or monks for halloween, too!
If you try hrad enough, you could find something offensive to someone, somewhere with any idea!
I've seen planty of people dressed as monks/nuns, and none of them were followed by angry mobs!

Oh, and please provide us with pics!

Renren, you've said it all!!
Huzzah!