Violet color

[gypsylakat]

Ok so the colors I'm doing on my next garb is like a violet color Think THIS color and it will a bodice and skirt in that color with like a natural colored chemise, and I'm thinking about eventually adding an overskirt in like a turquoise color...

My question is, in natural dyes what would give that kind of violet color

Also... should my skirt hit the bottom of my bodice at the back? it seems awful high... the store i got it from has a site but all of their outfits have short chemise's untucked and over the skirt, That's how i've worn it in the past because it was my fae garb so it was a long peicy tunic length shirt with a panelled skirt... it looked like that's how it was supposed to be worn lol.

[gem]

I rarely like the look of untucked chemises, and I'd think the only time you'd want a gap between the hem of the bodice and the waistband of the skirt is if it's a cropped bodice.  And if the bodice and skirt are from the same fabric, I'd say they should *definitely* touch.

[isabelladangelo]

Bodice and skirts should always touch if you are going for a European look.  The high bodice style was popular in Italy.   

A mix of woad and madder in the right concentrations would get violet.   Later (post 1550), indigo and various herbs used to make red dyes like St. John's wort would get a similar affect.

[gypsylakat]

I actually realized that today (the indigo) see some useful stuff does come out of History of Western Civilizaiton 100 lol..

I'm really thinking I might take the bodice apart a little bit and cut down the boning in the front, I really feel like the point is too long compared to the back of the bodice... Or I might just make a new one...

That's the main reason for asking, the back is like hitting the bottom of my ribcage just barely, but the front point extends for a good few inches past that.

[isabelladangelo]

That sounds like a late Venetian to me!   

http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/VenetianLady1570.jpg
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Fasolo.JPG
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/LPMusicalEvening1.jpg

[gypsylakat]

Lol except more wenchy... :p

[isabelladangelo]

So really late Venetian?

http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/MadonnadelleRose.jpg

[gypsylakat]

:p lol sure, why not! lol

[Cilean]

/quote]



Hi!

Here are some sites for what you have requested:

http://www.herbalgram.org/youngliving/HerbalGram/articleview.asp?a=1119

http://www.geocities.com/anne_liese_w/Dyeing/dyehistory.htm

http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/Russia/KRCfabricdye.html

http://www.bucks-retinue.org.uk/content/view/139/177/


You will see in this site the violet color you were mentioning:
http://sca.livingpast.com/dyes.html


With proper mordanting you can make a good purple and/or violet.  Heck if you have Woad and Madder so if you have an old dark blue fabric, and dye with red Madder and bingo it will be purple.
It was not a hard color however it is not a color fast color to dye.  It took longer to find what would make Reds, Blacks and Purples really dyefast.

Cilean

[Danni]

Yes, your skirt should definately come up to your bodice. Your chemise should always be tucked in. They may have been using a long chemise, which would double as an underskirt, but the top skirt should flow into your bodice.

I must state that if you are planning on making it to wear as a faire worker, you should check with the person in charge of costume approval before making it in a violet shade. At our faire, no one but the Queen and her direct family are allowed any hue of purple in there clothing, as it was extraordinarily expensive to make in the renaissance and usually only affordable to the nobility. It was also illegal for anyone who was not of the royal family to wear purple. Red was also a color designated to the upper classes, as the dye was expensive and the sumptuary laws of the time made it cost prohibitive for those in lower classes. You may find yourself putting in a lot of work for something the class you are portraying couldn't wear and having to shelve the garment when it doesn't pass costume approval. If you are planning on wearing it to attend and not to work, you should know that a lot of the people bent on authenticity may shun you, but if that doesn't bother you, I don't see why you shouldn't make it any color you wish. That being said, go with Ritt dye (in the laundry isle of your grocery store) or buy fabric that is already that color, as a period dye for that shade would involve the killing of several dozen sea urchins.

It sounds as if you may be going for peasantry, so if you do want authentic, shades of blue, green, grey, brown and wine were most common, as they were easily made. Wool was the most common fabric of the era, closely followed by linen. Cotton was actually rather expensive, but is most commonly used by re-enactors because of the expense of the other two options.

I hope this isn't taken as a negative comment, it isn't intended to be. I have sat at the right hand of our costume mistress as she has dashed the dreams of a poor sole who invested hours of work only to be told they had to start all over again, and I do not wish to see the same happen to you.

[isabelladangelo]

I must state that if you are planning on making it to wear as a faire worker, you should check with the person in charge of costume approval before making it in a violet shade. At our faire, no one but the Queen and her direct family are allowed any hue of purple in there clothing, as it was extraordinarily expensive to make in the renaissance and usually only affordable to the nobility. It was also illegal for anyone who was not of the royal family to wear purple. Red was also a color designated to the upper classes, as the dye was expensive and the sumptuary laws of the time made it cost prohibitive for those in lower classes. You may find yourself putting in a lot of work for something the class you are portraying couldn't wear and having to shelve the garment when it doesn't pass costume approval. If you are planning on wearing it to attend and not to work, you should know that a lot of the people bent on authenticity may shun you, but if that doesn't bother you, I don't see why you shouldn't make it any color you wish. That being said, go with Ritt dye (in the laundry isle of your grocery store) or buy fabric that is already that color, as a period dye for that shade would involve the killing of several dozen sea urchins.

Unfortunately, this is a very common Renn Faire myth.  Purple, as we think of purple, was not the same purple of the Renaissance.   Also, the sumptuary law against the wearing of purple is only in England and clearly states no one but the royal family may wear any silk in the purple shade.  There are plenty of portraits showing ladies who were not royal wearing purple.   The lady in this portrait's sleeves are the correct purple  Our idea of purple is probably more closely related to the the lavender of this chemise

The idea of red and black being only for the upper classes also is a common Renn Faire myth.   Red was made of madder and, actually, pretty cheap to get.  Black was from walnut (same as most inks at the time) and was also inexpensive.  One of the famous German Renaissance paintings shows peasants wearing red, black, blue, green, yellow....a really good array of colors.

[LaurenLee]

If you like long books, get Ken Follet's "World Without End".. it's a sequel to "Pillars of the Earth", set 200 years later (15th century England, I think).. Anyway, as a side, one of interesting side plots is all about dying fabric RED, doing it cheaper and better so all can afford it, and making a reputation as a fabric-maker and purveyor of dyes.  The book is great, deals with the plague and the corruption of the Church, etc.  Very appropriate reading for all rennies!!

[operafantomet]

I agree with the wise words of others.

After reading the highly interesting book "Blue - the history of a color", I got a whole new understanding of the colour mechanisms of the past. One interesting point from the book is that there are various ways of achieving a colour, various dyes and over-colouring that might give the same colour result. It's the colour substance that sometimes was for nobility/royalty only, not the colour result. Of course, the price would also restrict who wore what, but that's another discussion.

The name "purple" (or Greek "purphyra"*) originally named the madder used for intense and durable red and lilac/purple shades, and eventually it became the name for the colour result as well. But there were other (and also cheaper) ways of achieving these shades (which the book tells a lot about).

Most sumptuary and legislation laws I've read has dealt with other things than colour limitations based on class. They have limited HOW fabrics should be dyed (fabrics were double-dipped in separate baths, because mixing colours in the same bath was prohibited), or what kind of fabrics various people could wear. They've restricted the number of items made of a certain fabric/colour (like the 1456 Florentine law, forbidding women to own more than two silk outer garbs), or how much to use of each (for example laws restricting the length of sleeves or width of a cloak).

That said, it's probably easiest for Ren Faires to say that certain colours or fabrics is for nobility only. It's easier to sort by colours than dye method/source, that's for sure. And I agree that it would suck to put a lot of time and effort into a garb, just to be told that it breaks the laws of the particular faire.

*ETA: It should be PORFYRA, not purphyra. I mixed Latin and Greek. In Latin it is "purpura", in Greek it is "porfyra". It doesn't really matter, but I'm trying to learn Greek, and when I looked up the word in my dictionary I noticed I had misspelt it here...

[gypsylakat]

I'm not on cast, I live too far away and am a college student so... Not on cast lol I'm lucky if i get to go twice a season...

The reason I was asking about Purples was because the color created by the sea urchins is a purple laden with red and very dark, I was curious as to how the violet color could be created... I love all this wonderful information though..

[LadyElizabeth]

So I've always wondered what this red color would be considered?  I've not really made a study on colorings and dyes, so maybe some of you experts out there could help out.  I play royalty and so really hope to at least come closet to what they'd wear.  Also, if someone could tell me exactly or more like show me a pic of what the english royal purple color was, I'd be very grateful!! In the pic below, the King and Queen are wearing a color of purple. Is this the right purple?