Dress Improvements - skirt & sleeve questions

[gem]

Your *HOOP* will make the bodice look less bulky.  That's part of its job--give mass and volume on the bottom to balance out the top inverted triangle.

Since the look of the era was all about achieving that conical shape--and nothing at all about slimming down the torso and waist--you just *do* get more bulk.  I think my corset adds something like 1.25" to my waist measurement... add in all the other layers, and, yeah.

[broadwaygal24601]

Just a note in passing...  I'm usually VERY wary of taking things in solely at the side seams.  Yes, it's more work to take it in all round, but if you only work on the side seams, you can end up with armscye's that are too small and necklines that are too wide.  You are better skimming a bit off each seam.  You also need to look at WHERE on YOU things need taking in...  Sometimes people need the back taking in rather than the front, especially if you are a C or bigger at the front.

Yeah, I took it in mostly on the sides, but I also took it in by moving the arm holes a bit and adjusting where the straps would be.  I just kept checking to see where I needed it taken in.

I'll try the suggestions on the hoop skirt.  I'll probably just start over, make a brand new farthingale and make a wider bottom "tube" so I can either get a thicker hoop or double up.

[broadwaygal24601]

So, totally off subject, but does anyone know of a good pattern or way to make this top for a larger cup size?  I tried a mockup and it was totally not working...help!!

http://www.costumersguide.com/chobit/enchantedelcapitan-015.jpg
OR
http://www.costumersguide.com/chobit/enchantedelcapitan-013.jpg

Try that, it worked for me....

[Rani Zemirah]

I tried the link, but it didn't work.

[isabelladangelo]

http://www.freyaoftheshire.net/enchantedcapitan/enchantedelcapitan%20013.jpg  That will work

The interesting thing about this gown is it is so totally ripped from the ball gown in the labyrinth:
http://www.costumersguide.com/labyrinth/ref24.jpg

Given that, you might want to check out ebay for some vintage 80's patterns to get an exact pattern of the gown.  This one is probably too small but they do exist.

Other than that, try drafting the pattern on to a dress dummy if you have a good one.  Or you can take an old bra apart if you have one that is on it's way to clothing death.  What is wrong with the mock-up's?

[broadwaygal24601]

The mockup just didn't seem to form to the breasts right.  My cup size is bigger than my dressform, so I put a bra on it, and it just looked like fabric had been laid over it.  I basically made like a wide bowtie, put a dart in each one and sewed it on the bottom panels (I can do the stuff under the bust cups, but for some reason the bust cups just ain't workin!).  I'm a DD cup, so that could be part of the problem. 

I thought about putting clear straps on it to help hold things up...idk...

Oh, and every time I put in darts, they come out really pointed...any way to avoid this?  The seams in the bust cup in the pic aren't pointed at all...

[Kate XXXXXX]

I need to go away and write this elsewhere, with pix.  I'll be back with a complete answer later...

[Kate XXXXXX]

Here is the gown picture for reference:

This is a Princess cut gown without a waistline.  This type of dress needs to be held up inside with a proper internal foundation attached to the gown neckline.  This is the closest pattern I can find that is currently available:

To make this fit the picture, the neckline would need to be altered and a sleeve pattern drafted.  This should be possible, with care.  The split skirt and decorative details would not be difficult to add to this pattern once the basic gown was made to fit.

Here are a couple of sites with instructions for making a full bust adjustment.  While they show patterns that are more blouse shaped than gown shaped, the principles and methods for altering a gown pattern are the same.
http://www.cedesign.com/familyphotos/sewing/info/princessFBA/index.html
http://www.burdastyle.com/howtos/show/681
Remember that you will need to make this adjustment to the outer gown sections AND the inner foundation!

On making a gown with an inner foundation: the pattern I've suggested has full instructions for making this layer.  It isn't exactly difficult, but you do need to take care, and a toile (or 'muslin') for both the foundation and the gown is necessary.  Allow plenty of time.  For a B or larger cup, forget the boning the pattern suggests and use spiral metal boning.  Some extra help on these construction methods can be found in these two books:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/1561584975/ref=sib_dp_pt/026-3538179-6462061#reader-link
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/reader/0801987571/ref=sib_dp_pt/026-3538179-6462061#reader-link


However, if you look at the original, you can see that it was made with a dropped waistline:

For this version, no separate inner foundation should be necessary, and the gown can be based on one of these patterns:





Again, some neckline alterations will need to be made, and you'll need to draft those huge sleeves...
It is probably MUCH easier to manage this as a skirt and top than as a single whole gown, given the pouffiness of the skirt, which is why I have chosen these patterns.

For drafting a Leg of Mutton sleeve, try this:

Full written instructions here: http://vintagesewing.info/1940s/42-mpd/mpd-04.html (Scroll down about 2/3 of the way... )  Both versions of the gown have the sleeve head held to the arms with elastic.  A simple casing should do this nicely.  To make the sleeves stand out properly, you will probably have to interline them with dress net or organza (that is, mount the fashion fabric on a layer of very stiff net or organza and sew the two layers as one).  They'll also need to be fully lined to protect you from the interlining.

[broadwaygal24601]

Wow, so much food for thought.  Thank you soooooooooooo much Kate!  I already have the skirt in the sense that I found a bridal skirt for $2 that I'm splitting and then making an underlayer w/ hoops (not quite as big, but enough to get the point).  As far as alterations to the neckline, I assume you mean basic trimming to make it look closer to the original.

Thanks again and I'll get to work on this asap!!!

[Kate XXXXXX]

You'll need to redraw the neckline to dip in the center front and back and go up just in front and to the back of the armpit, and you'll need to add the lower half of the armhole to the side sections, so that you have some support for the sleeves.  You might find it easier to do this using the second McCalls pattern, as it has the narrow shoulder straps and the lower half of the armhole is already there.

[broadwaygal24601]

Like using A/B of the second McCall pattern, not C, correct?

[Kate XXXXXX]

Yes.  It would probably be easier to dip the front and back neckline and make the front and back lower hem pointed, and slant off the straps sections than add to the totally sleeveless ones, as you'd need to raise the under-arm section on one of those...

I did just that when I used that pattern last year to make a wedding dress top out of the bride's mum's wedding dress.  Unfortunately I didn't have the chance at the end to take pix of the completed project.

[broadwaygal24601]

...and of course I've missed all the pattern sales by like a day...great.

I'm going to try to get that McCalls one, but if I can't, what do you think about using this one?  I just happened to have it, so I wanted to see what you thought. I'd still prefer to do the McCalls, but none of them are on sale and when I tried to get the simplicity one, it was sold out....

[Kate XXXXXX]

That should be perfectly possible.

Try this:  Take a scan of, or snatch from the website, the back and front view drawings.  Scale them up to a usable size for seeing details, and draw in the alterations to the top that you want to make.  This will give you an idea of the alterations you need to make to each pattern piece.  Extend the style/seam lines to meet the new back and front necklines.  Once you have the shape fixed in your head, copy the pattern (trace onto paper), MARK IN THE SEAM ALLOWANCES, and pin the pattern pieces together.  Then you need to add the extra/skim off the excess bits round the top and bottom, cut the pattern apart, add seam allowances where needed, and go on from there.

Bit like this, really...  This used the above mentioned McCalls pattern:

Neckline alterations...


First hemline alterations:


The front pattern pieces ended up this shape:


We started the McCalls pattern, and after further hemline shaping and shoulder adjustments, we ended with this:


This was the internal structure onto which I mounted the fashion fabric.  It changed again after this picture, to a raglan sleeve style as this fitted the customer and the style of sleeve we wanted a bit better...  The last pix I have of the top are these two:


Neither of them shows the front.  One thing to note is that I did eliminate the center front seam so that we had a larger panel of the brocade at the front.  I felt that the seam up the front was one seam too many on patterned fabric.  This is a sort of bastaed hybrid of draping on the stand and flat pattern manipulation that I call 'flat pattern draping on the stand'!   

<sub>*Sorry about the missing pix - trying to get that fixed now...

Hope this has fixed it and everything is now clear!</sub>

[broadwaygal24601]

Ok, so McCalls patterns are back on sale at Hancock Fabrics...should I go with that second one up there?  Do you think that's going to be the easiest one to alter?