Following Orders

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

A vote is requested from my esteemed Council of Equals here.

The topic is for your review, and we can vote privately through PM or openly on this forum thread.

http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Warrior_Monk/?action=view&current=scroll-stock.jpg

There is a desire to work a "Grand Fathered" clause in it for some who might not fit the bill, but these will be entertained by the Council on an individual basis.

[Just Jesse]

I think that is a good idea, as long as im seen as a knight of the temple. after all, my garb is derived from many a book, and koh, but i feel koh is so relevent to day's world; therefore my favorite movie. i no the inacuracies in the film, and in some popular books, and my fellow history loving frends no each of their orders. my teutonic frend from some pics a while back is actually from sweeden. ive rambled of point a bit, so  support the name change

[Femme Falchion]

I do believe the scribes need to draw up yet another policy scroll....in the name of God, I plead for my own sanity.....

[Lord Clisto of York]

A vote is requested from my esteemed Council of Equals here.

The topic is for your review, and we can vote privately through PM or openly on this forum thread.

http://s266.photobucket.com/albums/ii245/Warrior_Monk/?action=view&current=scroll-stock.jpg

There is a desire to work a "Grand Fathered" clause in it for some who might not fit the bill, but these will be entertained by the Council on an individual basis.

Warrior Monk,

  Although I am not a Templar, I portray a noble knight from my family of Brune't of Richard I's time,  from my real family history having a Marque in our family whom ran part of his mother Elanore's estates while he was on crusade. I even have historical family pedigree to show my line back to 1188 where our nobility first was recorded. I must say I agree with your assesment of your situation. In deeply researching a specific entity, and putting everything in to it to make it historically correct or as close to, I would grant those the specific privilege of the order. The ones who just use hollywood hype and or garb and say they are this and that it is great and can still have fun, but should be excluded or examined closely to see where their real true heart is in the historical content if wanting to be in said group, until such time they to may want to put the full effort in their research etc.. to really portray history as it was. Nothing wrong with Hollywood garb, since it is flashy and looks cool at times, but it is what it is.

Now, I am not saying that anyone can't dress or say they are this or that, because anyone can do whatever they want to have fun, and that is what it is all about, but to be a part of a living history group and or historical reenactment group, they need to be as accurate as possible and truly know what they are talking about. Otherwise what is the sense. It is no different with all the Jonny Depps as pirate types that came out aftert eh movies or pirates in general. Do it or whatever for fun, but to want to really do it right to be in a specific enactment group which deals in REAL pirate history and dress, one needs to make the sacrafice and delve into the real history in every way. If a group wants to find it ok to have anyone remotely attempting to be for whatever reason, thats cool to. But as you have written, it looks ike certain specifics would like to be met. Just my 2 cents and a friendly observation from someone on the outside.. Please don't shoot the messenger everyone... (lifts shield) LOL

Sir Clisto

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

I must say I agree with your assesment of your situation. In deeply researching a specific entity, and putting everything in to it to make it historically correct or as close to, I would grant those the specific privilege of the order. The ones who just use hollywood hype and or garb and say they are this and that it is great and can still have fun, but should be excluded or examined closely to see where their real true heart is in the historical content if wanting to be in said group, until such time they to may want to put the full effort in their research etc.. to really portray history as it was.

Sir Clisto

Lord Clisto I absolutely agree with your post, and you've hit the nail on the head with the above line. Just trying to reward those who've done their homework, and gone the extra mile....to walk in a Warrior Monk's boots!

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

I think that is a good idea, as long as im seen as a knight of the temple. after all, my garb is derived from many a book, and koh, but i feel koh is so relevent to day's world; therefore my favorite movie. i no the inacuracies in the film, and in some popular books, and my fellow history loving frends no each of their orders. my teutonic frend from some pics a while back is actually from sweeden. ive rambled of point a bit, so  support the name change

Please...share these sources with us,so that we may become more enlightened, for that is what we're trying to accomplish here.

As for your European references, please share those also, especially your Teutonic reference, for I've never seen the likes of a design like that, not even with the Sword Brothers adopted into the Order.

Below is a list of my "ON HAND" references:


1.   God's War, A New History of the Crusades; Christopher Tyerman

2.   The Last Templar, The Tragedy of Jacques de Molay: Alain Demurger

3.   The Knights Templar, A New History: Helen Nicholson

4.   Richard the Lionheart; The Mighty Crusader: D. Miller

5.   The Knights Templar in the Golden Age of Spain; Atienza

6.   The Illustrated History of the Knights Templar; Wasserman

7.   The Crusades: M. Paine

8.   God Wills It: Bartlett

9.   Crusades: T. Madden

10.   Knights: J. Heller

11.   Armour and Weapons: Charles Ffoulkes

12.   The Chronicle History of Knights: A Hopkins

13.   God's Warriors: H. Nicholson

14.   Acre 1291:Osprey Publishing

15.   The 3rd Crusade: Osprey Publishing

16.   Knights Templar: Osprey Publishing

17.   Knights Hospitaller: Osprey Publishing

18.   The 12th Century English Knight: Osprey Publishing

19.   Teutonic Knights: Urban

20.   The Dream And The Tomb: Payne

21.   Knights Templar: S. Howarth

22.   Knights Templar-God's Warriors, The Devil's Bankers: Sarello

23.   The Templars: P. Read

24.   Templars and Assassins: Wassermann

25.   The Templars: E. Burman

26.   Warriors of God: J. Reaston

27.   Northern Crusades: Christensan

28.   The Monks of War: D. Seward

29.   The Knight: Barber

30.   Fighting For Christendom: Tyerman

31.   Dungeon, Fire, and Sword, The Knights Templar in the Crusades: Robinson

32.   Albigensian Crusade: Sumption

33.   The Way of The Crusades: Williams

34.   The Knights Templar: S. Martin

35.   Soldiers of The Faith: Finucane

36.   Warfare In The Middle Ages: R. Humble

37.   Medieval Warfare: Koch

38.   Historical Atlas of The Crusades: A. Konstam

39.   The Rise and Fall of The Knights Templar: G. Napier

40.   Armies of the Crusades: Osprey Publishing

41.   Cathar Castles 1209-1300: Osprey Publishing

42.   Knights Templar Encyclopedia: The Essential Guide to the People, Places, Events, and Symbols of the Order of the Temple: K.Ralls

43.   The Rule of the Templars: J.M.Upton-Ward

44.   The Piebald Standard : Edith Simon

45.   The New Concise History of the Crusades: Thomas F. Madden

46.   The Real History of the Templars : Sharan Newman

47.   The Templars, A complete introduction to the Legendary Monk Warriors: Miguel Gomez

48.   The Knights Templar, Discovering the myth and reality of a legendary Brotherhood: Susie Hodge

49.   The Medieval Soldier : Vesey Norman

50.   Fighting for the Faith : D. Niccole

51.   El Cid; The Making of a Legend : M. J. Trow

52.   Warriors of the Lord: The Military Orders of Christendom : Michael J. Walsh

53.   Battles of the Crusades 1097-1444; from Dorylaeum to Varna : Devries, Dickie, Dougherty, Jestice, Jorgensen, and Pavkovic

54.   The Templars, Holy Warrior Monks of the Ancient Lands : Jack M. Driver

55.   Templar Organization, The Management of Warrior Monasticism : S.T. Bruno

56.   A Most Holy War, The Albigensian Crusade and the Battle for Christiandom: Mark Gregory Pegg 

57.   A to Z of the Knights Templar, A Guide to their History and Legacy: Gordon Napier

58.    Essential Histories; The Crusades : David Nicolle

59.   Battles of the Medieval World 1000-1500, From Hastings to Constantinople: Devries, Dickie, Dougherty, Jestice, Jorgensen, and Pavkovic

60.   Templar Knights and the Crusades; Charles R. Dillon

61.   The Enigma of the Knights Templar: Marilyn Hopkins

62.   The New Knighthood, A History of the Order of the Temple: M. Barber

63.   Knights of Jerusalem, The Crusading Order of Hospitallers 1100-1565: David Nicholle

*Along with personal email contact with two leading Templar historians from the U.K.

[Lord Clisto of York]

I must say I agree with your assesment of your situation. In deeply researching a specific entity, and putting everything in to it to make it historically correct or as close to, I would grant those the specific privilege of the order. The ones who just use hollywood hype and or garb and say they are this and that it is great and can still have fun, but should be excluded or examined closely to see where their real true heart is in the historical content if wanting to be in said group, until such time they to may want to put the full effort in their research etc.. to really portray history as it was.

Sir Clisto

Lord Clisto I absolutely agree with your post, and you've hit the nail on the head with the above line. Just trying to reward those who've done their homework, and gone the extra mile....to walk in a Warrior Monk's boots!

Exactly!!!! Not taking anything away from the others at all since it is the path they choose that looked cool or they like to see themselves portray. But there are the hard core of us whom go that little extra and want to BE the Knight per sae. Mimicking history takes work, time, research and passion which isnt for everyone.

[Lord Clisto of York]

PS - I had added a chapter to my Tome website a few weeks ago on Templars and Hospitalars. Don't know if you have see it or not.

By the way, I am posting an announcement now in a different area here on the new chapters with links.

[Just Jesse]

ive read da vinci code(dont poke fun) holy blood holy grail,
46.   The Real History of the Templars : Sharan Newman

13.   God's Warriors: H. Nicholson

and seen any and everthing about medieval anything on the history channels...long with many of online research that ill never be able to credit. i am currently awatng to be inducted in the free masons, but i have to wait 2 more years, till im 21.

[Sir William Marcus]

Mimicking history takes work, time, research and passion .

I do agree, although we forgot one...

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

[Monsignor de Beaumanoir]

ive read da vinci code(dont poke fun) holy blood holy grail,
46.   The Real History of the Templars : Sharan Newman

13.   God's Warriors: H. Nicholson

and seen any and everthing about medieval anything on the history channels...long with many of online research that ill never be able to credit. i am currently awatng to be inducted in the free masons, but i have to wait 2 more years, till im 21.

Neither of the first two have graphic depictions, and the D.C.is a work of fiction.
What type of Crosses are depicted in Helen Nicholson's work? Just a hint....I know already.

The rest of your post explains much...thanks.

[Just Jesse]

the same cross you have... over your heart... i like the latin dead center though.

[Femme Falchion]

just curious TJ, where do you weigh in on the divine feminine?

(BTW....good progress on the editing  )

[Just Jesse]

all im saying is i wouldn't mind if certain things in d.c. were real. i do believe i wouldn't, be mad if new discoveries were made about Jesus.