Simplicity 9533

[Taffy Saltwater]

This is a pattern for an Italian sleeveless coat, similar to a Spanish ropa.  Does anyone have one they'd be willing to sell (the large size) or a ideas for a similar pattern. Thanks!

[Aiacha]

Let me check at home and see if I have duplicates.  If I have extra, it's yours!

[Taffy Saltwater]

You're an angel!

[Aiacha]

Are you coming out this weekend?

[Taffy Saltwater]

Why, yes, I am.  Was planning on Saturday, but can be there Sunday if it's more convenient.

[isabelladangelo]

There are a couple of easy ways to make something similar.  One way is to cut out two trapezoids, have one on the fold, the other on the selvage.  Near the smaller horizontal line of the trapezoid, make a slight curve for the armhole.  Sew the sides and shoulders and you have an overcoat.   

Another way to to make the trapezoid front, have a rectangle at the top of the back and pleat a lot of fabric to the back.  Both ways were done in period and both look really nice.

You might want tot look at Patterns of Fashion for more ideas.  There are a lot more of the Spanish Surcotes or overcoats in there.

[Aiacha]

I'll be out both days, camping row 8-10 or so.  If I have it I'll let you know and we'll arrange to meet.  POW after the parade would be perfect!

[Taffy Saltwater]

Isabella - I knew there had to be a simple way to do one & will keep this in mind.  My imagination SUX & a pattern has all those necessities like yardage, notions, etc., that I am sadly pitiful at.

Aiacha, keeping my fingers crossed, but either way, I look forward to seeing you at the PoW!

[Cilean]

This is a pattern for an Italian sleeveless coat, similar to a Spanish ropa.  Does anyone have one they'd be willing to sell (the large size) or a ideas for a similar pattern. Thanks!

The Simplicity pattern was a very bad example not of a loose gown but of the Giorna, GIORNEA
A long, sleeveless overgown. Often open in front and down the sides, and often elaborately trimmed and decorated. The open front and sides allowed the underdress to show through. The giornea often had a train, and there were many sumptuary laws and discussions about the lenght and extravaganza of these trains (Frick 2002: 309). The giornea was worn similar to the cioppa, bun unlike the latter, the giornea was sleeveless and open at the sides (Frick 2002: 309). It had it's origins in a military dress for day battle in antique times (Frick 2002: 309).  Jacqueline Herald describes it as a summer garment, more popular in Florence than in the north of Italy, but according to her the Tuscan version could also be lined with fur and worn in the colder months. It was considered a garb for the young (Herald 1981: 218), but by fashion rather than by law. According to a 1456 law, a woman was allowed to own two outer garbs of silk, be it a giornea or a cioppa; one for summer wear and one for winter wear (Herald 1981: 218).


I can give you some alternate patterns that are in stock and I feel a better choice than the Simplicity out of print pattern!

From Reconstructing History
Later period loose gown
https://www.reconstructinghistory.com/rh202-loose-gowns.php?s=&c=22&d=30&q=1&p=42&w=21

Closed Loose Gown, Kirtle and Sleeves
[urlhttps://www.reconstructinghistory.com/rh204-kirtle-gown-sleeves.php?s=&c=22&d=30&q=1&p=44&w=21][/url]

Margo Anderson's Patterns

http://margospatterns.com/
Look for the Comfort Patterns

Mantua Makers
http://www.mantua-maker.com/catalog.html  Look for Spanish Loose Gown

Good Luck,
Cilean

[isabelladangelo]

Hey Cilean!

I've made the Simplicity pattern before and it really is very similar to http://collections.vam.ac.uk/objectid/O74085 rather than the http://cadieux.mediumaevum.com/florentine.html

I don't think I've seen an open front giornea before.  Most of the ones I've seen have the open sides, hooked or tied at the waist, with the v-front neck opening. 

The coat, like the Simplicity pattern, is open at the front, has "wings" at the armhole, and can be pleated in the back.  (It doesn't have to be and there are plenty of examples in Patterns of Fashion where they aren't)   The Simplicity pattern is very misgiving since they show a late 16th c surcoat over a late 15th c dress.   However, the pattern is actually pretty decent if you are going for a late 16th c surcoat and don't want to free hand it.

[Taffy Saltwater]

I have gone ahead & ordered the Reconstructing History loose gown pattern.  It is much closer to what I have in mind.  And since my imagination - reiterates SUX - it's better for me not to have to make things up as I go along.  It also has the hanging sleeves I had in mind. 

Thanks!

[Cilean]

Hey Cilean!

I've made the Simplicity pattern before and it really is very similar to http://collections.vam.ac.uk/objectid/O74085 rather than the http://cadieux.mediumaevum.com/florentine.html

I don't think I've seen an open front giornea before.  Most of the ones I've seen have the open sides, hooked or tied at the waist, with the v-front neck opening. 

The coat, like the Simplicity pattern, is open at the front, has "wings" at the armhole, and can be pleated in the back.  (It doesn't have to be and there are plenty of examples in Patterns of Fashion where they aren't)   The Simplicity pattern is very misgiving since they show a late 16th c surcoat over a late 15th c dress.   However, the pattern is actually pretty decent if you are going for a late 16th c surcoat and don't want to free hand it.

But from what I thought she wanted was more of the loose gown more than an actual giornea reading into what Taffy was saying I thought she might be looking at a loose gown more than the italian overgown from the 14th/15th Century. 


I am making one of the loose gowns myself for running about Camp at the SCA, so I don' t have to get completely garbed for a privy run!!  I have it cut out and sitting in my to do stack ....another UFO (Un-Finished Objejct) LOL

Taffy that pattern you picked is so easy to make up I think you will enjoy it! Simple and elegant as well if I ever get mine done I will send pictures and when you finish yours?? Do send out picks!  OH and check out Joann's they have some cotton canvas-y fabric that has this morrish type pattern. I will put in a pic as soon as I find the camera, don't you love that when you can't find it when you need it!

Good Luck
Cilean

[Taffy Saltwater]

I looked long & hard at the pattern for doability.  The only thing that kind of bothers me is the inner yoke that supports the pleats (?), but I'm a visual soul & will have to look at the pattern to "get it".  There's a fabric shop down the street from me that specializes in home decor type fabrics at a deep discount, so I'll be spending some time there.  Don't want the fabric too heavy, but on the other hand don't want a swishy weight either.

After looking at portraits for what seems like months, it looks like there are two kinds of overdress:  the tunic type open on the side (giornea?) & the jacket type open in the front (cioppa?), both fitted under the bust.  Lady Kathleen is making an black velvet undergown (gamurra?) & tunic overdress for me & I would like to expand the undergown's possibilities w/a front-fastening style.

The loose gown could also be worn sleeveless with the undergown to continue the Italian look or w/hanging sleeves (detachable) & a blackwork partlet (ordered) for a Spanish/English look. I think I'll make both sets of sleeves & line them w/a contrasting luxe fabric. The upshot of it all is making the undergown into a garb  workhorse.

Cilean, have you considered making a banyan for your privy runs?  They looks so simple & would be decadent in a silky fabric.

[Cilean]

There is a third option the Turkish Coat. 

Here are some links on that
http://www.geocities.com/oonaghsown/turkish_coat_for_venetian_dress_doco.htm




I know some people making these up for privy runs, and I have some fabric that I must make this from soon!

CIlean

[LaurenLee]

If you are interested in a privy-gown ( a robe ), check the loose gown I made, for sale, in the buy+sell forum.. it would certainly work well for that purpose!  I do not attend faires,  but I am a seamstress and I am an American Civil War reenactor, and my favorite "garb" is my unstructured robe that can be worn around the fire at sunrise, before all but the soldiers are awake... if you'd rather buy than sew, the purple velvet sleeveless ropa is washable, too!

Cheers,
LaurenLee