TRF Campgrounds - constructive input

[mpullen]

mpullen, please don't kill the thread as it provides us an outlet to talk and to continue to give constructive input about the camping at TRF.

Okley-dokely, just keep the discussions on topic.

[Lady Laura]

My theory is that expanding the campgrounds means more vehicles, and more vehicles means more camping revenue that hopefully will be used to off-set some of the expenses of campround improvements. 

[crashbot]

I am happy with all of the proposed changes. Water will be nice. Showers and flushies would be great if they are maintained anything like the ones inside (always clean). I'm not sure about the electric hook up though. Would that not require something like "numbered and assigned" camp spaces like regular campgrounds? 

[ravic]

I am happy with all of the proposed changes. Water will be nice. Showers and flushies would be great if they are maintained anything like the ones inside (always clean). I'm not sure about the electric hook up though. Would that not require something like "numbered and assigned" camp spaces like regular campgrounds?  

Clean flushies inside? check. Clean participant shower houses? er, not so much...

[Terre Albert]

Sorry, I've been out of pocket for some time.

I like to read this forum, the opinions and concerns.  I'll try and answer everything I've read over the last months.
 
The improvements are not to cover any cost from this past year, we had a wonderful year with record attendance, so thanks to everyone who came out, even though we didn't have fires or the bonfire.  We did add some security and tried to address problems when they were brought to our attention, (Loud Music, Theft, others) but the cost of those things is just the cost of business.

The campground expansion is ultimately a traffic problem solution.  In our opinion more people camping means less people on the roads, keeping traffic and accidents down.  We think we have a good thing going with great after hour's parties that many campgrounds don't or can't offer.

The improvement will come in stages and hopefully with growth we won't have to change the price to pay for them.  If we add electricity then the people who want that can pay extra and everyone else will pay less.

I believe we have a good reputation of keeping privies clean and showers clean so if we add those next year or in 2014 than we will maintain them just like the festival.

The price for next year is still $20 the same as this past year and the year before.  If you saw a $25 price it was a mistake and it was changed back on the website.

The new roads and improvements are coming along fine.  We wanted to add things to make our patrons/campers safe and make the grounds more comfortable, like running water and a better store to buy things you might need.  We are adding 100 acres but don't know if they will be used right away.

George has always been a visionary and his ability to see the future and what we will need five year down the road is what has made this place the success that it is.  Thanks for caring enough to offer your opinion and I hope someone always listens to them even if they don't agree.

Terre 

[KiltedPrivateer]

Terre, you have a great way of calming fears.  I'm looking forward to the future enhancements and have to agree that camping closing weekend was a delight.  You have done a great job.  Thank you.

[Breandan]

While I still hold that George has hampered the creative growth of the faire in lieu of profits, that's my opinion from personal experience over the past 20 years. So, while I appreciate the praise you have for George, make no mistake that most of us see you as the true visionary behind all of this. I understand you may disagree, but that is how many of us on the outside see it.

That being said, there are concerns about the growth of faire that are valid, some that are invalid, and some- such as the people complaining about where the new roads will exit- are just petty gripes. You've addressed all of them well, which leads me to be hopeful that some of the magic will come back to the festival. So, here's where I have to ask the big 800lb guerrilla question- would you be willing to have a constructive Q&A discussion on other aspects of faire, such as jury selection (i.e., reversing the medieval flea market feel and making TRF more of an artisan's faire like Sherwood), site improvements (what to add, what to change, new booths, etc.), grounds expansion (if possible, getting kinda crowded), etc.?

[Terre Albert]

I'm always willing to disucss the festival one-on-one or with a committee.  As long as the goal is to improve the festival then my door is always open. 

[Laird Fraser of Lovatt]

 

Wow... not many would offer that up, Terre, but it's a good idea.  Your friendly neighborhood playtrons have visited many other Faires and some of the people on this board may have some useful insights. 

*Management that is open to new ideas... THAT is kinda scary!* 

[Breandan]

you, sir, have earned my respect, which I generally give out grudgingly, by being willing to discuss these matters when others in the past simply blew us off and demanded our money. That being said, I echo Fraser- be careful what you wish for

Here's a few starting ideas:

1) Vendors and jury selection- Over the past several years there has been an increased predilection to allow pretty much anything into faire that is even remotely quasi-medieval, most of it cheap mail-order junk one can find in any mall, flea market, swap meet or on ten frillion online ebay sites. This has, in turn, led to an assumption- right or wrong, and I've seen and heard evidence both ways- that it is allowed because it A) sells quickly and moves fast, and B) faire gets a cut of the profit from these vendors due to it not being of their manufacture, therefore the more they sell, the more money TRF makes. This is a VERY sore point for many artisans, who break the bank with booth fees, overhead expenses including lodging, payroll for employees, equipment, materials, etc., and all of the other costs associated with a two month run at faire- on top of the already hefty costs of building a booth out there (get to that in a moment), only to watch their sales go in the tank because the shop across from them is selling mass-produced crap in the same general genre as their products. They, as artisans, can only set the price so low before there's no point in even doing the trade, whereas the companies selling the mass-produced junk can do so far cheaper because their product is made for pennies by virtual sweatshop labour in China, Indonesia, and so on. I would like to see this addressed, and have some solutions-

* Tighten up the standards for vendors, such that there can only be a tiny handful of resale shops of mass-produced items in the same category, and give greater preference to those who provide something to the ambiance of faire such as the Pirate's Cove booths. I may dislike a lot of what they sell as cheap junk (they DO carry a small selection of decent blades), but they're honest about it, and the auction and their character interaction more than makes up for it, adding to the faire experience. They are about the ONLY shop selling mass-produced stuff that does this, however.

* Increase the chunk taken from the mass-produced resellers, and give incentives for tradesmen and artisans, ESPECIALLY if they demo their craft. The increase in the cut from MP resellers will eventually drive most of them out, and the incentives will increase the number of unique artisans and craftsmen brought into TRF. Anyone can buy a cheap wallhanger sword, mass-produced resin skull, or costumes made in China and India online or through catalogs, but how many people would prefer to buy a Tinker Pearce custom blade, pottery or ceramics crafted and baked right before their eyes, or clothing made by Dra or Doug that is sold in the shop by the very creators of the items? I sure as hell would rather pay for a unique piece from an artisan than a clone copy MP item. Allowances should be made for apprentices and official representatives- NOT 'licensed retailers', but people actually chosen by the artisan or craftsman to sell and demo their work- to run the booths as many of these artisans work multiple shows or have other constraints that would prevent them from working each faire weekend.

* For craftsmen and artisans who use traditional methods and are willing to demo them, give them even further incentives such as reduced booth fees, additional passes for apprentices, priority camping spots near their shop, etc. This will increase the number of artisans willing to showcase their crafts, which will draw in bigger crowds. After all, its not every day you can walk by and see a cobbler at work making shoes, or a bladesmith grinding and polishing a sword blade.

* Ditch the grandfather rule, go back and audit  E V E R Y O N E !  There are a LOT of shops that skate by because they've been there forever, some of them have been reported numerous times for a variety of issues (two particular weapons shops come to mind as the owner of one has a long and storied history of playing fast-and-loose with items he sells, both at faire and at gun shows, and the other has been busted for fraud, selling swords with Windlass Steelcrafts blades and claiming them to be their own manufacture while charging exorbitant prices, even for the custom blade market). The public perception- and I say this with strong authority because I hear it almost nonstop when this issue is brought up by rennies and patrons alike- is that these shops are, again, allowed to remain there as George can pocket more money off of them and overrides the jury, or tells them to turn a blind eye. Again, I cannot speak to the truth of this accusation, however I CAN say it is out there, and is being voiced a LOT.

Doing these things will go a long way to shifting the vendor pool from flea market mass-produced reseller to artisans and craftsmen selling unique- and often far superior- wares. This draws in more people, as TRF has- for the shoppers- always been THE place to go for unique gifts (I speak from experience here as we would get a dozen people a day drop by the blacksmith shop to get customized items that were made nowhere else, and willing to pay a metric butt-tonne more for them than a mass-produced version of it they could get at Bed, Bath and Beyond or the like). It brings back the magic, keeps these trades alive, and- dare I say it- brings in a better class of both rennie and patron.

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2) Booths and Booth Construction- One of the biggest complaints over the years has been the requirement that vendors building booths at TRF use TRF-approved contractors. Unless this has changed, this meant one of two or three people, all of whom overcharged for their work, often slacked off and fell way behind schedule (I've seen this personally in at least one case), and generally did sub-standard work that had to be corrected at booth-owner expense later on. While I understand the need to keep booth designs and appearances in line with the feel of the renaissance festival architecture, would it not make more sense to allow booth owners- who are, in point of fact, footing a metric butt-tonne of money for a shop on land they don't own, that can be taken from them at the drop of the hat without ANY remuneration or compensation, and therefore taking one HELL of a financial risk to begin with- to use any licensed contractor, provided that their plans meet with TRF approval?

Again, I am a couple of years behind on this issue, so I am unsure if this matter has been addressed at all yet or not.

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3) Entertainment, Cast Augmentations through Volunteers- I understand the cast was cut due to cost, and this was most certainly noticed by the patrons (google around using some basic keywords and you'll find patron blogs and journal entries out the wazoo, and it was mentioned more than a few times when I dug around). A way to offset that would be to augment the core (i.e., paid) cast with an increased number of volunteer cast members. These volunteers would not be paid, but would receive a pass for a predetermined amount of work (say, 5-6 hours a day at specific locations and events, and then the rest of the day is theirs to wander around, provided they stay in-character while in the outfits). This would expand the number of characters in the streets and at events, all with minimal impact to the bottom-line. I actually started out at TRF that way over 20 years ago, volunteering with the Barbarians in exchange for a pass. I loved it, and it was a great deal of fun. These volunteers should be vetted, of course, and have at least some basic audition to ensure that they can maintain a decent character presence, but overall the process should be fairly smooth to get them in (and to get them out if they fail to live up to their end of the bargain as well).

These are just a couple of the ideas off the top of my head for consideration, at any rate

[Terre Albert]

 Most of these items are being addressed or have been addressed over the last few years.  We are slowly removing merchants and replacing them with artists.  We offer a financial incentive to artists and try to make it easier for them to participate.  

We have a master plan to increase Artist by 3% each year through 2017.  By then if our goal is reached we should have change the landscape of the vendors at the festival and removed any unwanted.

Our new vendor coordinator is going to as many fairs, art shows and festivals to recruit first time vendors who hopefully will convert to shoppe owners.  

We do require the booth owners to use approved builders, but over the last few years we have added some new companies and some independents.  Each person or group must have liability insurance which has remove many, leaving the best.  We will allow anyone who brings three references and has insurance to be approved to build at TRF.

Hope this answers your questions.  Feel free to ask more.  

Terre

[Breandan]

and the cast volunteers idea? I know that may be the ED's department more than yours, I'm just curious if it is something that would be potentially on the table.

I'm glad that you are phasing out the mass sellers in favour of the artists, and I understand why it's hard to see the transition since you are doing it slowly instead of all in one fell swoop (something to be said for that, by the way, didn't think of that).

[Bonny Pearl]

Hi Terre,

I saw the pics on FB that show the new store, facilities that have been built and the road.  Would you give us a bit more information about where these are located in relation to the camping rows?  Trying to get a visual on where these things are and google hasn't updated the satellite image of the area yet.  Also, is the camping entrance being relocated from Deerwood?  If so where will be enter for camp?

The buildings look great and I know a lot of people will be very happy about having these things available.

Thanks

B~

[Terre Albert]

Because this is an expensive expansion most of what you see is the remodeling of the Orchard Buildings (Office/Store, Bathrooms).  The new entrance will come off of CR 302 which will be repaved and improved to handle Parking and Camping traffic.  While you can camp in the new areas and be close to these buildings most people will stay in the regular campgrounds, which for 2012 will remain the same.  I could be wrong and people may want privacy and the new areas could explode. We have a large parking area at the store so you can drive and shop/use bathrooms and we will keep these facilities very clean.  After the roads are completed and the trees growing we will look to build more of these facilities inside the regualr campgrounds closer to the campers.   

[ravic]

Breanden,

Define for us your version of "mass sellers". Not all of the vendors selling other people's stuff indulge in the low quality end. Some of the through-sellers have been there since George opened the gates and they have passed every jury for 38 years. I agree that we need to get rid of the county fair crap but I wouldn't lump all of the non-artisan vendors into the same group.

Thanks