Split front elizabethan gown

[Rowan MacD]

  I am looking for a pattern for that particular bodice.  I'm not sure what 'country' it originated from...French?  Italian? Spanish?
The front looks kinda like this:

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[isabelladangelo]

I'm not quite sure what style you mean.  Do you mean Venetian?


English?


Generic Italian?


Or were you thinking earlier and Burgundian?

[Rowan MacD]

 Sorry for the delay in replying:

Apparently it's Venetian, as you say; thanks!

Are there good patterns for this (portraits #1, #2 and #3)?

[isabelladangelo]

I honestly don't know.   

What I've done in the past is take whatever my favorite Elizabethan bodice pattern, make it a front lacing, and take away a bit from the upper bust area.  I then do a mock up and edit as needed.  It works well. 

For the doublet gowns, Simplicity 3782 works very well. 

[Rowan MacD]

  Thanks!  My MA elizabethen should be modify-able then....
Margo Anderson has just come out with a pattern for this style-she used kickstarter to produce it, and the donors will be the first to get a set.
  Has anyone received their copies?  It doesn't look like she has released it for general sale yet.....I can't wait!

[insidiousraven]

I recently modified my MA elizabethan bodice pattern for my first Venetian dress. I just took width out of the front panels so the gap was larger. 

[Rowan MacD]

  Thanks!  I have this great design in my head...
  MA still doesn't have her Venetian gown patterns available.   Seems there were some technical issues..

[gem]

"Technical issues" is a highly diplomatic way to describe it. 

But really, any bodice block that fits you well should be able to modify to fit. (And in case you were thinking about the 1560s English style--shown on the girl with the lavishly embroidered sleeves/partlet--MA's Elizabethan pattern offers a version that laces in back/sides/etc, but hooks up the front.)

[Rowan MacD]

  That's the one I am thinking of making.   Added bonus is the front closing bodice-saves hubby having to lace me with his arthritic fingers.
   I like MA  but she seems a bit distracted lately.

[Lady Kathleen of Olmsted]

Rowan. Here is a Venetian gown and pieces I drafted by hand 2 years ago. I used a Corset generator for the bodice based on Lady Kett's measurements.  Not bad  for not using a pattern.

[operafantomet]

  Thanks!  My MA elizabethen should be modify-able then....
Margo Anderson has just come out with a pattern for this style-she used kickstarter to produce it, and the donors will be the first to get a set.
  Has anyone received their copies?  It doesn't look like she has released it for general sale yet.....I can't wait!

Have in mind that Venetian dresses bodices are usually a LOT shorter at the sides than Elizabethan dresses. And to balance the construction they're also pointed in the back. Elizabethan bodices are more cone shaped overall.

Here you can see how incredibly short they could be under the arms:
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/operafantomet/media/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/tintoretto1570s.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/operafantomet/media/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/tizian1556fan.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/operafantomet/media/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/veronese1570snewer.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/operafantomet/media/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/titianlavinia1565.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/operafantomet/media/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/veronese1560snatgalireland.jpg.html

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/operafantomet/media/renaissanceportraits/venezia2/veronese156070.jpg.html

Whereas there are more cone shaped Venetian bodices as well, they're less typical. Elizabethan patterns can be used as a basis, but more extreme curves is the way to go for an even more authentic look. And actually more comfortable to wear too.

You can see a lot more Venetian dresses here:
http://aneafiles.webs.com/renaissancegallery/veneto.html

And here:
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/wardrobe.htm

[Rowan MacD]

  Thank you Opera,  those are great!
 
  Since I'm not all that into 100% HA, I'm visualizing my gown bodice as sort of a blended venetian/Elizabethan:
  This is sort of what I'm looking to do...note the lack of laces on the front. 
   

[operafantomet]

Aaaah. Then you're not really looking for Venetian style. You're looking for actual Elizabethan bodices, with a slightly more of the modesty panel visible than you'd see in portraits. ETA: like one of the portraits Isabella posted. Or like these ones of Queen Elizabeth I:

http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/lizvandermeulen.jpg

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:George_Gower_Elizabeth_Sieve_Portrait.jpg

Or this of Mary, queen of Scots:
http://englishhistory.net/tudor/relative/maryqosbiographyblack.jpg

Whereas Elizabethan and Venetian style share some common traits, they were seen as visually and constructionally different to the point where Elizabeth I was described as owing garments "in the Venetian style".

I would have a look in Jean Hunnisett's 16th century pattern book (the "For stage and screen" series). I'm pretty sure she has such a bodice pattern there

[Rowan MacD]

Aaaah. Then you're not really looking for Venetian style. You're looking for actual Elizabethan bodices, with a slightly more of the modesty panel visible than you'd see in portraits. ETA: like one of the portraits Isabella posted.

Precisely.  I'm thinking it won't be too hard modifying my MA bodice pattern by splitting the front along the center trim lines....
  I'm not that interested in being strictly HA;  just a pretty dress in the Elizabethan style.
  I'm not a fan of the attached skirt and front laces on the venetian style.

  The above picture is from the Pleasure Faire in California.  The subject is the same lady who makes those drool worthy hats that we all love, but can't afford; Michelle Fennema.. 
  She is wearing one of her cheaper (under $300.00) creations.   She made a spectacular french hood for the queen, which was on loan-since the price tag is somewhere around 3K.

[gem]

I'm thinking it won't be too hard modifying my MA bodice pattern by splitting the front along the center trim lines....

It should be VERY easy, since that's one of the options given in the pattern:



The illustrations in the instruction book show more, especially with the trim.

And Anea's right, Jean Hunnisett drafted a pattern for the Helena Snakenborg portrait for Period Costume for Stage & Screen, including how to make the little scalloped wings under the shoulder rolls.



(I have finally found gold cord small enough for her partlet/sleeves, which means my supply list for this gown is complete! And I am on schedule to have the embroidery finished... in another six or seven years. Egad.)