Kent State Truth Tribunal

[Welsh Wench]

To me, it brought to mind what happened at the National Democratic Convention in 1968.

From Wikipedia under National Democratic Convention 1968--

In 1967, the Yippie movement had already begun planning a youth festival in Chicago to coincide with the Democratic National Convention. They were not alone; other groups, such as Students For a Democratic Society and the National Mobilization Committee to End the War in Vietnam, also made their presence known. When asked about anti-war demonstrators, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley kept repeating to reporters that "No thousands will come to our city and take over our streets, or city, our convention."

In the end, 10,000 demonstrators gathered in Chicago for the convention where they were met by 23,000 police and National Guardsmen. Daley also thought that one way to prevent demonstrators from coming to Chicago was to refuse to grant permits which would allow for people to protest legally.

Keep in mind this was a volatile time. Emotions were running high on the Vietnam War. Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy Jr had both been assasinated in April and June respectively.
From what happened in Chicago, I would have thought a lesson would have been learned and been more circumspect when calling in the National Guard. It was only two years later.

In the words of Pete Seeger....'When will they ever learn?'

[Rapier Half-Wit]

When it becomes "Of the government, by the government and for the government..." that's  when we're all in trouble.

[KeeperoftheBar]

We were issued 45's without ammunition.  In one instance, one of them took off.  All I had to do was rack my 45 and he put on his brakes.  The threat of force and the ability to divide a large mass of demonstrators into smaller groups reduces the herd mentality. 

So, in a nutshell you were bluffing and he did not call your bluff.  Well played!  In Iran, my friend with the unloaded M-16 didn't have a clip and with that sort of weapon, it is rather obvious so bluffing is impossible.  Unloaded clips would be another matter.

I always thought the threat of force will cause an opponent to either back down or react with escalating force if available.  I would not want to be put in a position where my bluff was called.

Back to the subject, according to Wikipedia, "In May 2007, Alan Canfora, one of the injured protestors, demanded that the case be reopened, having found an audiotape in a Yale University government archive allegedly recording an order to fire ("Right here! Get Set! Point! Fire!") just before the 13 second volley of shots.[29]"  It is unknow who may have issued the it but I have never heard the command "point" issued.   And I have watched every John Wayne war movie ever made.  So if the command is true, it is very indicitive of the panic among the Guardsmen.

[Welsh Wench]

Last year I posted the memories of those from my graduating class.
Here is the link--

http://www.renaissancefestival.com/forums/index.php?topic=7002.0

These kids were actually THERE.

[Carl Heinz]

Don't know how the phrase this delicately so-

The threat of force and the ability to divide a large mass of demonstrators into smaller groups reduces the herd mentality. 

Interesting point...

Reduces in one, induces in another... it depends on your perspective- which, ultimately, is what this thread is all about. 

The rationale was to divide a large group into smaller groups instead of forcing everyone into one large group.  Smaller groups tend to disperse.  Large groups tend to become more violent.

On the topic of ammunition--if the rules of engagement don't authoize the use of lethal force, then ammunition should not be issued to the line troups.  This doesn't mean that snipers can't be used
in situations where specific individuals have actually endangered the line troops.

Unfortunately, all of this assumes training.

[DonaCatalina]

As much as I'd like to see the whole truth come out; the reality is most of the people who were in positions of responsibility are dead. How much new can they really find out?

[Welsh Wench]

The Krause family initiated Four Days in May, the Kent State Truth Tribunal in order to reveal the truth and establish a clear and accurate historical record from the collective voices of Kent State.

'We hope the Kent State Truth Tribunal will help to heal those involved, establish cause and effect, and shed light on responsibility for the events that transpired on May 4, 1970. We have not set out in pursuit of punitive justice, but rather the restorative justice that comes from collective sharing and healing. The Truth Tribunal honors those whose lives have been directly affected by the killings and also marks the importance of Kent State as an influential chapter in the history of protest, democracy, civil rights and public security in the United States.'

And I agree--those to blame are dead.

[SirRichardBear]

As long as the actions of the protesters are also investigated and this is not just a witch hunt against the national guard. 

I remember those days and the number of rocks, bottles, and worst that were thrown at the police and innocent bystanders by the protesters. 

[Butch]

Amen, Sir Richard.

[Welsh Wench]

Two of those killed were just walking to class.
Not much excuse to kill them.

What is to 'witch hunt'?
The government officials that were involved are dead now. Can't really dig them up.

As the tribunal said, they want a clear and accurate historical record.
And healing.

[angusmacinnes]

I am afraid the history is already written.  It is like trying to go back and rewrite the Warren Report.  Good Luck to those that try.

[Captain Jack Wolfe]

There's a significant difference between rewriting history and getting the facts straight.  Their goal, as has been stated before, is to get a clear, accurate historical record.

[angusmacinnes]

Gee I guess in all the confusion someone forgot to count.  Thing is that no matter where you stand on the issue it was a sad day in American History.  But one thing not to forget is that many of the guardsmen were as young if not younger than many of the protesters.  This is like a lot of other things there will always be more questions than answers. 

[Welsh Wench]

If you read reply #4, you would see that it was acknowledged that the National Guardsmen were scared kids too.
No one is disputing that fact.

And it wasn't fair to put a rifle in the hands of scared kids.
Thanks again to the powers that be.

[angusmacinnes]

I think we have reached an understanding then.  But isnt it really about 40 years late in coming.  Like someone said most everyone responsible is already dead.  Let us just hope that the Gov't learned something that day.  And excuse me for missing the #4 post. Sorry.