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Offline Becky10

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....I think I've been insulted
« on: May 01, 2010, 12:18:32 AM »
So I was planning on bringing two friends who have never been to faire before with me tomorrow and now I think there may only be one going. This by itself wouldn't normally upset me but the reason why does.
  There was uncertainty on if my one friend could go because her father believed that faire was a place where people "only went to get drunk and have sex"...He has never been to a faire or talked to anyone who has. I explained that this was NOT true and showed him pictures and the program from this years faire and told him that I had started going to faire when i was little, like many, and my parents would certainly not have brought me there if that was in fact true. So her parents finally calm down and believe me then today she tells me she is once again unsure and her mother has told her she may go but as long as she doesn't dress ( i had promised to bring some garb over for her to use).

  This bugged me because I know that she put this limitation because she thinks that I will put her in a revealing outfit that shows off more than she would like to see. All I could think of is so, what do you think of how I dress? I wear upperclass garb there is nothing being shown, outside of faire I wear jeans and a shirt, i don't even like wearing shorts!
 
 She has this idea that I am a moral corrupter and  I have been blamed for choices that her daughter makes that I usually find out afterwards. She has known me for 7 years an yet this is what she thinks of me? I understand its a parents right to put limitations on some of their child's actions but she doesn't have the right to use me as a scapegoat because she doesn't like that he daughter is growing up. Shes going to college for pete's sake.

  Am I crazy for feeling kind of insulted that she would believe that I would dress myself and her daughter in a suggestive manner? I did not expect this to upset me as much as it has but it has and now I am debating going garbed cause i now feel self conscious and i will not go in her house when I go to  pick her up because I will not be able to stand having to talk to her mom while she gives me the up and down.

  Sorry for the rant (and if this is in the wrong place) but i really had to share this. Faire is my place where i feel sure in what I am doing and wearing and thins really tossed a wrench in it. :P
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Offline Ferret

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2010, 12:37:36 AM »
Any chance of getting the mother or father to go with ?

Might be worth the try for your friend's sake.

I know it won't be easy. But your friend might be worth it.

Ferret

Offline Becky10

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2010, 12:49:26 AM »
I had thought about that but highly doubt it, they refuse to go most places, ironically its their way of letting her be an adult and do things on her own.  :-\
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Online Butch

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2010, 12:55:15 AM »
They sound like my son's girlfriend's mom.  Both my son and his gf are freshmen in college, but the same suspicions are cast.

When are they adults?  Do the parents realize how much they are alienating their dau?

Offline Craigmeister

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2010, 01:40:42 AM »
I would say to pick her up in your garb.  That way, her parents could see that it is not revealing or corrupting.

I faced the same disillusionment from my wife & in-laws a few years ago.  They are strong Christians & thought that there were people telling fortunes all over the place & people doing witchcraft & crap.  My wife was very relieved when she went w/ me to KCRF.  She's been to another faire w/ me but they still aren't her thing.  She & her brother's wife have been very supportive of the archer character I've created this year.  Her sis-in-law even made my shirt & vest for me.  Her other relatives still ask me stupid questions about Renfaires.  I wish I could drag them all out w/ me to a faire so they could see how they really are.

I think that you are a good influence on your friend.  If her parents don't see that now, they will over time when she gets in trouble w/ others but not you.
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Offline Merlin

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2010, 07:49:08 AM »
that faire was a place where people "only went to get drunk and have sex"...

I must be at the wrong places....

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Offline Noble Dreg

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2010, 08:22:52 AM »
To each their own, let it go.  As your friend gets older she will be able to make her own choice on where to go and who to associate with.  Until then, Mom and Dad have issued a parental decree.  They are ignorant about "faire", but if they have strong feelings about public drunkenness and exposed cleavage that's their right to express it to their daughter.

Conservative folk tend to view "faire" with a jaundiced eye just as "faire" folk tend to view typical conservative functions with disdain.

Until we all can accept the rights of others to engage in activities they enjoy we are not going to have true freedom to do as we wish...That includes accepting those who may disagree with what we do.  It's not an insult, they do not agree with your choice, their right, their loss.

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Offline LadyShadow

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2010, 09:07:45 AM »
I am truly sorry to hear of this happening.  I had been in the same situation before.  I was blamed for my friends decisions and it was a while before they would let her go any where with my with out one of our parents there.  And even then it was still limited on where she was allowed to go.  But my problem got solved over time.  Her parents realized, after some time, I wasnt leading her down a path of wrong and started to trust us both more.
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Offline Just Randall

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2010, 11:07:06 AM »
Jeez, I can't WAIT for Hate City's documentary "Huzzah!" to finally be released so we can deal with all these simple minded buffoons once and for all...
Mediocrity is the refuge of the unimaginative...

Offline Rapier Half-Wit

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2010, 12:44:03 PM »
Unfortunitly CaptFletcher, truth and facts be @#$%ed, people are going to believe what they want to believe. Whether the facts support it or not.

A fact that I've learned about the human race (in general) is that we make decisions based on emotion and then use logic to justify it. Whether we are talking about sheets and towels or politics and religion or renaissance festivals. When they decide to change their minds, they will. And not a second sooner. In the mean time, I'd suggest trying not to waste too much mental and emotional time on it, and spend that time doing what makes you happiest and gives you the most satisfaction. Otherwise you are just giving someone else power and control over your life and you miss out.

Life rule #3:
People will do what they want to do.

And the inverse rule:
People don't do what they don't want to do.
If her eyes aren't sparkling, you didn't do it right...

Offline Blue66669

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2010, 03:28:05 PM »
Oh, honey.... I've been the scapegoat for many years. For some reason, a friend starts to show a little independence, and the parents blame me...

*like I'm a bad influence or something*

So, I figure, if they're going to believe me to be bad, I'm gonna be baaaaad.
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Offline Becky10

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2010, 10:43:47 PM »
 So my friend did come, out of garb and we watched a ton of Broon, Moonie and Manly Men in Tights.  We had a really great time and shes pretty sure she wants to come again next year, by then i would hope she has a little more freedom. When i went to her house to pick her up, in my garb, her mother just went upstairs when I came in, oh well what can you do(that attitude is what insulted me, not that they were being restrictive).

 During a couple of times today that i shied away from what i would normally do or say I kinda came to a realization. With her mom's behavior I am just going to have to remind myself i am her daughter's friend not hers and she can look at me however she wants cause i know who i am.
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Offline Rapier Half-Wit

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2010, 11:10:46 PM »
Well done you. That's the attitude to have.
If her eyes aren't sparkling, you didn't do it right...

Offline Blushing

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2010, 12:06:06 AM »
I kinda wonder if my parents had the same thoughts ... or at least thoughts in that direction when I started working at the faire (Yep, So.Cal. Renaissance Pleasure Faire).  I brought them to faire one day, and despite a few rough spots, they realized why I enjoy it so much.  Meeting some of my friends - fairemily - clinched it.  My friends made it abundantly clear that we all look out for each other.

Good luck, and keep up the upbeat attitude!
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Offline Lady Neysa

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2010, 11:52:32 AM »
I know this is after the fact, and I'm glad things sort of worked out, but how old is your friend anyway?  You said she was in college..is she not 18 yet?  If not, then she must be getting close, and the parents need to loosen the apron strings a bit.  If she is already 18, even if she lives at home, they need to realize she's an adult and let her make her own choices.  It's not like she's trying to run off and commit a crime for pete's sake. Even if the parents believe faire is bad, that's their problem, not hers or yours.   

Online Butch

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2010, 05:12:10 PM »
Lady Neysa, I do see your point, but if the girl lives at home as an adult, there are undoubtedly rules imposed that the girl doesn't want to break which may result in a loss of some benefits (i.e. a place to stay, food to eat, support while at college).  That's what I see.  The girl needs to choose her battles.

But, the parents should also realize she's not a kid anymore, and any rules/stipulations should be ones for an adult.  Again, as I posted earlier, the parents need to realize that they may be alienating their daughter.

Offline Becky10

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2010, 05:18:59 PM »
She'll be 18 next week and is probably one of the best daughters out there; she has never done anything that they would  disapprove of, has kept good grades, seldom stays out late, doesnt go to parties ect.
Which is part of the reason why I think this was such a big deal for her mom because she is used to her daughter basically living the same life as her and this is something she would never do.
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Offline justsomeguytn

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2010, 08:33:06 AM »
Wizard's First Rule:
People are stupid
They will believe something because they want it to be true or they're afraid it might be true.
(Thank you Terry Goodkind)

What I think you have here with the parents is a little of both parts of the rule.  They don't know anything about faire.  Since they're such pathetic knuckle dragging morons they fear anything they don't know about.  Because they don't want to see themselves as pathetic knuckle dragging morons, they want any validation of their belief that "Faire == BAD".  At the same time they are afraid of their daughter not being a carbon copy of them and you might stop that by "corrupting" her.  They want their daughter to be exactly like them because in their tiny, stunted, disease ridden minds "Me == PERFECT".  Unless you can tie them up and drag them to faire and make them sit and watch the non bawdy shows while chalenging them the whole time to prove their belief, I don't think you'll ever convince them.  I feel very sorry for the daughter.  It's going to be really tough on her.  I wouldn't be suprised if she has had problems having a boyfriend with those kind of parents around.

To sum it up Becky, yes you've been insulted.  In fact we all have.  Those parents are no less bigoted and ignorant than a KKK member or Fred Phelps himself.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 08:35:46 AM by justsomeguytn »

Offline Laird Fraser of Lovatt

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2010, 09:35:42 AM »
While not as extreme as justsomeguytn, i do believe he does have the right of it.  Closed minded people are the hardest to get through to... like mainstream America reacting to "hippies" during the late 60's.  If a small window could be opened into the darkened recesses of their minds, they'd see a diverse group of people doing something that they love/need... escaping the turmoil of their mundane day to day lives. 


I'm a bit consevative but i also have an open mind... best of both worlds, i guess.  ;)   
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Offline will paisley

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2010, 11:44:24 AM »
Wizard's First Rule:
People are stupid
They will believe something because they want it to be true or they're afraid it might be true.
(Thank you Terry Goodkind)

What I think you have here with the parents is a little of both parts of the rule.  They don't know anything about faire.  Since they're such pathetic knuckle dragging morons they fear anything they don't know about.  Because they don't want to see themselves as pathetic knuckle dragging morons, they want any validation of their belief that "Faire == BAD".  At the same time they are afraid of their daughter not being a carbon copy of them and you might stop that by "corrupting" her.  They want their daughter to be exactly like them because in their tiny, stunted, disease ridden minds "Me == PERFECT".  

You know, you really need to work on coming out of your shell so you can express yourself and tell people how you really feel.  ;D

Unless you can tie them up and drag them to faire and make them sit and watch the non bawdy shows while challenging them the whole time to prove their belief, I don't think you'll ever convince them.  

Sadly, I doubt that would even have an effect.  You saw how she showed up in non-revealing garb and the mother fled up the stairs.  Dragging them to faire tied up would probably result in a similar denial of reality.  As rapier Half-Wit said:

Unfortunitly CaptFletcher, truth and facts be @#$%ed, people are going to believe what they want to believe. Whether the facts support it or not.

A fact that I've learned about the human race (in general) is that we make decisions based on emotion and then use logic to justify it. Whether we are talking about sheets and towels or politics and religion or renaissance festivals. When they decide to change their minds, they will. And not a second sooner.

The only bit I'd add is that I haven't even seen logic used for justification all that often. 
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Offline LadyStitch

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2010, 12:33:23 PM »
i have been fighting my brother to see things my way for years.  Soon as he heard I did theater he thought I was going out every night to wild parties and doing all kinds of illegal things.  Please,  if you knew half the people I do in theater, soon as you tried to do something illegal we would all bail on your and could be blackballed.  When you make your living on your reputation you don't want to muck it up. 

A couple years ago I offered to PAY for my brother to drive down to our house, then go with us to TRF.  An essencially free weekend on me, if he would just come camping with us at TRF.  No dice, his rationel was "There will be drinking there." and "Bad things will be going on." Our camp is relatively a sedate one, as we are typically made up of older adults. However if you want to go adventuring to other camps I'm sure you will find the loki flowing.  What bugs me so much is that he would go to  a NASCAR event where there is more alcohol pouring per camp, and  you hang out with truckdrivers who tell some of the dirtiest jokes I've ever heard, yet you won't go to a faire.  It floors me.

My parents on the other hand love it.  My mum is a big crafts person and loves the stuff I bring home for her.  My dad is badly physically challanged, and adores the DVD's I bring back to him.  He says it reminds him of all the old vaudville acts he use to see when he was little.  Their only rule was "Don't do something stupid." 

When someone is entrenched in their belifes they don't want to see the facts in front of them, only what they want to see.  I wish you luck.
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Offline analise

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2010, 02:23:14 PM »
LadyStitch,

You can pay for me to go to TRF instead. :)

Offline justsomeguytn

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2010, 02:24:32 PM »
LadyStitch, tell me about it.  I actually live effectively behind a NASCAR track.  Two of my neighbors actually rent out their townhouses to families visiting for the race a couple of weekends every year.  Personally I can't stand NASCAR.  But I know when a race is coming up because the isles at the local supermarket get six feet longer due to the three feet deep beer stacked at each end.  They bring in so much beer that they stack the produce on top.  By the end of the weekend all that beer is gone.

I have never even heard of something like that with a faire.

Offline DonaCatalina

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2010, 02:35:17 PM »

 She has this idea that I am a moral corrupter and  I have been blamed for choices that her daughter makes that I usually find out afterwards. She has known me for 7 years an yet this is what she thinks of me? I understand its a parents right to put limitations on some of their child's actions but she doesn't have the right to use me as a scapegoat because she doesn't like that he daughter is growing up. Shes going to college for pete's sake.

  Am I crazy for feeling kind of insulted that she would believe that I would dress myself and her daughter in a suggestive manner? I did not expect this to upset me as much as it has but it has and now I am debating going garbed cause i now feel self conscious and i will not go in her house when I go to  pick her up because I will not be able to stand having to talk to her mom while she gives me the up and down.
 
You can run up against the common problem of parents who believe their child can do no wrong except when some evil person leads them into bad decisions. About all you can do is make the best of it and don't take it personally since its really NOT about you.
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Offline Lady Lil

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2010, 09:11:19 PM »
You mut be a really good friend to care so much. You have a great attitude that I admire. Keep your chin up, good things happen to good people. 

Online Merlin the Elder

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Re: ....I think I've been insulted
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2010, 01:28:00 PM »
Wizard's First Rule:
People are stupid
They will believe something because they want it to be true or they're afraid it might be true.....

Hey! I was going to say that! It's my rule!  ;)

I think I'm in a better position than you because I'm so old, I don't care if someone doesn't approve of what I say and do.  Best thing for you to do is to go on to the faire, meet some new folks that DO share your enjoyment of it. You'll be happier for it!
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