Draped overskirt question

[Elennare]

Hi Ladies (and gentelmen...I know there's a few of you here as well .

Does anyone have any advice on how to make a split-front overskirt, where the front of the skirt is draped?

The picture on the left here, http://www.simplicity.com/p-5262-plus-size-costumes.aspx, is kind of what I want. 

This pattern, however, has a drape on each side and the back looks like the front.  I would like to to be able to have the back of the skirt be connected and come down to about 6" above the hem of the underskirt.

I'm currently thinking if I cut the front edge of the skirt to be curved, and then gather them it might get the effect I want.  Does that sound like it'll work?  Do you have other thoughts on how to achieve the look I want?  Or have I managed to explain what I want in such a fashion that's clear as mud and you have no idea what I'm talking about?

Thanks!

[Lady Rebecca]

The way that it seems to me you're explaining it, it sounds like you have the right idea. Did you just want it to be gathered up at the front, or did you want another gather somewhere near the side seams, and then for it to fall in the back?

[operafantomet]

Hi Ladies (and gentelmen...I know there's a few of you here as well .

Does anyone have any advice on how to make a split-front overskirt, where the front of the skirt is draped?

The picture on the left here, http://www.simplicity.com/p-5262-plus-size-costumes.aspx, is kind of what I want.  

This pattern, however, has a drape on each side and the back looks like the front.  I would like to to be able to have the back of the skirt be connected and come down to about 6" above the hem of the underskirt.

I'm currently thinking if I cut the front edge of the skirt to be curved, and then gather them it might get the effect I want.  Does that sound like it'll work?  Do you have other thoughts on how to achieve the look I want?  Or have I managed to explain what I want in such a fashion that's clear as mud and you have no idea what I'm talking about?

Not quite sure what you're asking... But what I can tell is that the dress to the left in the link is mimicking what is called a mantua (sometimes "manteau"). It was a dress that eventually developed into the "Robe a la Francaise", the typical Rococo dress.

The concept is that you wore a decorative underskirt. It could be made of the same fabric as the overdress, or a contrasting fabric. Over this skirt you wore a full overdress which was open in front. The sleeves were usually elbow length and wide, revealing the lace cuffs of the chemise. To close it over the bust you pinned or otherwise fastened it to a loose, decorated triangle called a "stomacher".

Now, the overdress almost always had a very full skirt and a train. It's this skirt that's draped in front and in the back. The basic idea is to lift the front skirt and attach it over the hips. This could be done by a loop and button, or by sewing it down. But the draping were often temporary. In the back the skirt would flow gently down in thick, nice folds. It could also be folded up one time, not being draped. You can see several examples of the mantua here:

http://aneafiles.webs.com/mantua.html
http://www.vam.ac.uk/collections/fashion/features/round/18th_century_women/mantua_silk/index.html
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/works-of-art/1991.6.1a,b

So basically you make a one-piece dress with lots of width in the skirt and just fond the skirt up. You pin the bodice part to a stomacher and wear a petticoat of some sort. And voila! You don't need to curve the skirt or anything, at least not when done the period way.

ETA: if you like it with a contrasting fabric, you can get some really cool waterfall drapes in the back! Two friends of mine made smashing mantuas some years ago, and one of them used very strong, contrasting colours. So awesome. I'll dig up pics of it.

ETA 2: Eureka! Here's some pics. They used the exact same pattern, but chose very different materials and ways of draping the dresses. You can tell it's the same style, but they appeared very different still.
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/arnesentouring/piratfest/pirat16.jpg
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t127/arnesentouring/piratfest/pirat15.jpg

[Kate XXXXXX]

If you just want that mock polonaise look, the best way is to cut a BIG half circle for each half of the skirt.  Hem the STRAIGHT edge and gather the CURVED edge to fit your waistband.  Not even half way historical, but OK for a quick Halloween costume.   

(Just about to start making a 'proper' polonaise anglaise a la Norah Waugh/Janet Arnold, along these lines: )

[Elennare]

Thanks for the responses!

The way that it seems to me you're explaining it, it sounds like you have the right idea. Did you just want it to be gathered up at the front, or did you want another gather somewhere near the side seams, and then for it to fall in the back?

I would like for the gathers to be just at the front.  Here's a REALLY bad sketch, made in paint, that will hopefully help explain a bit better what I mean:


I think Kate's idea is closest to what I had in mind.  Maybe if I make it a 3-panel skirt, with a "normal" one in back, and then 1/4 circles for the front/sides, with the curved edge gathered to the waistband?

edit: maybe 4 or 5 panels would work better...

[Anna Iram]

Something more like this perhaps? To my eye anyway, they both look like they come off the same shaped skirt ( and the same pattern as Kate describes)  and it's all in how you gather it. I admit I may not know what I'm talking about here... wouldn't be the first time.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0019ABVFS/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=1064954&s=office-products

http://www.oldtimepatterns.com/images/pp904.jpg


Unless it's the squared edge at the front that you don't want. Something more like a modified (larger/fuller) version of this? I think just by rounding that corner you would get the right effect?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polonaise_1770s.jpg

[Elennare]

Hmm, no, that's not quite what I had in mind.

I guess I'm not doing a very good job explaining myself.  Let me try one more time.

I would like the back of the skirt to hang more-or-less like a plain, normal skirt.  I would like the front to be drapey.  Kind of like the look you get with skirt hikes, but I want the front to be split, not just a plain skirt pulled up.

...ya know, now that I've said that, maybe just a plain skirt pulled up in the front would get the look I want...

The "polonaise" picture from wikipedia is close, but I want the front to be more closed, with the drapes on the sides rather than in the back.  If you look at the dress linked in my original post, picture those drapes being connected in the back and continuing into a longer skirt, rather than being 2 seperate drapes that pull up again.

[Anna Iram]

I'm sorry. I understand up to the drapes being connected in the back. Then I'm lost.  I'm sure the other ladies will know better what you are describing, so I'll bow out. Good luck. Please do post a pic when you get it finished.  


*edited* Oh wait. I do get what you mean by that. Just that it's not split up the back but one continual skirt from the front split and around again to the front.

[Adriana Rose]

Kinda like the sides of Disneys Cinderella?

[Kate XXXXXX]

I think if you do it with three quarter circle panels, you can get the look you want.  Put one in the back with a waist arc cut out at the point, and put the other two curved side up, and gather the top edge.

[bellalye]

LURKER-ALERT!

I have done the normal-split-skirt-bunched-hoisted-at-the-sides.  It was VERY simple, and I could let the skirts down at my leisure as well.  I simply picked a pointabout 1 1/2 feet in from the split and another 1 1/2 feet down from the waist, then tied with ribbons back at the hips.  I hope it is helpful

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20736116@N06/5116329229/in/photostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20736116@N06/5116329239/

toodles!

[Elennare]

Played around with some scraps last night, and it looks like Kate's suggestion is going to do what i want.  Or at least looks like it'll come closest to doing what i want.

Should be actually sewing my skirts tomorrow, and i will post pics when they're done.

Thanks for all the help!  I really appreciate it.

[Kate XXXXXX]

We love having input!  The ideas exchange here is always good.  Wat may not work for one poster might well for another: no ideas ever go to waste utterly!

Looking forward to the pix.

[Elennare]

Didn't get as much done last night as I had hoped to, but I did get one of the skirts finished.  This is going to be the middle layer.  The dress dummy it's on is a bit short, so it's not hanging quite right due to hitting the floor, and it's a crappy cell phone picture, but it I think it gives the idea.  When it's on me, it hangs much more open in the front and more poofy on the sides.  I'm also not sure why it looks brown, since the fabric is actually a bright wine color.



Excuse the cat.  She insists on helping, and, oddly enough, only the pictures she was in came out any sort of decent.

Once I get the whole costume done, I'll post pics of the finished thing. 

[Kate XXXXXX]

If you want it to pouf out  a bit more, try a small bum roll or a net petticoat.  Cheating rules!   

It's looking good so far.     And cats always love to get in the way help...